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  1. Can we please reserve talk about calling ANY U12 or below team a "powerhouse" until they at least reach U14 and checking comes into play?
    7 points
  2. You can have a 50-50 battle at the blue line, or you can have a 50-50 battle behind the opponents' goal line. If you want to see more offense and more scoring and just as much creativity, let them have the battle behind the goal line. The new offsides rule forces a puck carrier at the blue line to turn back and re-group into traffic. On occasion I have seen as many as 8 or 9 skaters between the blue and the red line because of the turn back. Yes some creativity will be required to keep possession. But the rule forces more play and more time spent in the neutral zone with high traffic. Is this really what we want to see and where we want to play the game?
    5 points
  3. The new checking rule appears to be: If it's loud on the boards or glass- 2 minutes If the kid being checked falls- 2 minutes If the kid doing the checking is bigger than the one being checked and one or both of the above happen- that's a two and ten It's ridiculous.
    4 points
  4. In theory, sunshine, rainbows and magical skills. In reality just one whistle after another, no flow and even less continuous play.
    4 points
  5. TEAMS 2122_Divisions_9.21.21.pdf
    3 points
  6. It sounds like you’ve just completed your first level cep and had your head pumped full from the good idea fairies from usa hockey. kids get better by playing the game. Not by constant whistles and stoppage of play. There is no proof that automatic offside has made anyone a better player. It’s simply there because it’s easier for newer and unskilled officials to make the call than managing the numbers of delayed off sides. Same with icing at all times. It makes it easier to just call an icing regardless of game context. Creativity on the penalty kill is about the last thing you want to be teaching young players. Positioning, reading passes etc on the other hand…
    3 points
  7. The predator’s always had extra fee’s for Gary’s gym. they were at one time the “cheapest” “AAA” - advertised in the $2000 range. I could be mistaken, but I believe it was advertised just like that on their website. I remember a dad telling us by the time he paid coaches fees. Slush fund, yellow helmet-gloves-bag-jerseys, some crappy league fee (njphl or something ?), mandatory gym fee etc the cost was higher than what we had ever paid @ esmark. (PPE had the highest fees in our day) This parent compared it to buying a new car “I thought it would cost this but by the time we drove it off the lot it was much more with all the up selling and it lost its value!” I will say the season fees at PPE were justified even though it was highest we ever paid. Excellent coaching & real trainers. My son was on the ice 3 days a week, off ice 2-3 days a week. He practically lived at the rink. Excel didn’t exist yet. In comparison Esmark had a joke of an off ice program with 2 days a week practice. on the flip side, esmark’s travel was higher than anything we ever did at ppe, I’m sure much higher than the predators. Sorry to highjack this thread with fee’s but the current discussion of birth year teams just reminded me how few tier 1 teams there were 8-10 years ago in the states. Along with how good AA hockey was back then. I don’t think growth is the reason for the current landscape (not just in western pa) it’s people finding more ways to make money, younger parents with high hopes, truly uneducated parents falling for the sales pitch along with status parents. I also believe PPE helped destroy tier 2 locally with their bull$hit black teams. I remember watching the first year these black teams came out, it was a squirt major or peewee minor team I think (possibly 2004 BY I am trying to do the math real quick in my head as I type) I was dumbfounded how bad the players were, how bad they skated. I believe the coach was a dad with two kids on the team. It’s hard to remember, I could be wrong on the BY, I’ve seen to much youth hockey & it’s starting to run together anymore. Anyway, It went against everything PPE was trying to be. Looking back now it’s obvious why those black teams were created - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ taken from the type of parents I was speaking about above, to subsidize the pro practice rink. The same kind of parents today that will gladly pay the money for that extra A at predators, Icemen, Vengance & whomever else is calling themselves AAA these days. I am really showing my age, it’s probably time for me to depart this place. I’m thankful the majority of my kids playing days it wasn’t like it is today. If I could turn back the clocks, have the knowledge I have now, I would have tried to enjoy it more. Not worry about how well they play, how competitive they are etc. before you realize it, it’s all over. Sorry for ramblin’ on. Good luck to the younger parents, there are predators after your cash everywhere these days in the hockey world!
    3 points
  8. You are right on here Saucey! Most people don't realize how quickly it will be over when they are in the moment. I've seen it from a PAHL schedule and an independent schedule. The travel and hotel costs are not worth the extra expense when the teams you are playing are not any better than the PAHL teams you could have played within an hour of home. I like the PAHL schedule with 4 out of town tournaments.
    3 points
  9. I don't want to see PAHL cater to something that isn't a good way to develop. Parents dictating structure based on ignorance and dad's ego is not good for hockey around here. Maybe there needs to be more of an outreach to educate younger parents. PAHL can do that. PAHL organizations can do that. Neither of my boys played in that minor BY model. They either played up or in A minor. That stigma associated with playing A minor in your rising year is a new phenomena, and it's not good. When my boys came up, it was normal to be on team 2 or 3 every other year and AA major your second year. You had to be really good, or born in a low BY to play AA both years. The kids I see coming out of that minor year are timid with checking. PAHL created that level to make it safer to check and it seems to just delay the learning process. Making choices on where to play and levels based on theoretical kids you want to recruit the next season is terrible. What does that say about what those coaches think of the kids that they have? They are wanting to cut kids on their current roster. Great way to spend your time and money, folks. Serve your current players in the season you are in. Develop what you have over wishing for something different. My boys were not always top players.They play for an organization who develops. They have had good and bad coaches, winning and losing seasons.. They've had some private instruction in the off season. They are naturally good athletes. They love it. Let them play where they fall, let them develop. Kids grow and change. They play in divisions with a lot of bad teams. They continue to get better. I don't think you are going to see change with PAHL going to BY. It all starts to wind down at midget, folks. Enjoy the moment. All that chasing chasing chasing...I am on the back end of watching people do that. I don't see those kids who are running around with these independent teams becoming significantly better hockey players. That has to be PAHL's end game. Not stroking parents. Develop the players.
    3 points
  10. I agree with you 100% AA Major and Minor makes a whole lot of sense. That's probably why it won't happen.
    3 points
  11. 12 year old “powerhouse teams” ? 🙄 teams ranked below 50 in tier 1 are basically very good AA teams. When you get into that 75 and further range, they turn into mediocre AA teams that the majority of top 30 AA teams will beat. I just noticed (U18) team Ohio tier 2 AA beat the vengeance tier 1 “AAA” team. It’s all about the extra “A” for parents, it’s not so much the kids.
    3 points
  12. But My kid is too good to play in PAHL,,,,,,,,
    3 points
  13. I don't think it can be referred to as "left" when you are banned from the place of business where the team practices and plays. Why the desire to bury the truth may I ask? Karma finally came calling as it always does.
    3 points
  14. This truth is the way it is today. If they are still local after 15U, that is pretty much the ball game.
    3 points
  15. Sure. Keep in mind last year was an odd year due to Covid. So they skipped placement games. we were listed as A minor gold. Our coach looked at our roster and where kids were prior year and thought PAHL was way off. Our team loaded a ton of scrimmages against PAHl teams one to 2 divisions above us. Because PA was closed we bought ice in Ohio. Our team outshot and out scored opponents. In the end the team moved up to A Major white. Scoresheets and evals were sent to PAHl for consideration They played a little over 50 games between tournaments and PAHL. In PAHL they finished around the .500 mark. Games were very competitive and didnt have any blowouts.
    2 points
  16. Frankly, it doesn't make a difference to me if I drive two hours or four hours. If you are a decent AA team you can't just go to any tournament. You have to be picky. And you better schedule some independent games. 2 games per team at home. Guessing 700 a game. So, 1400 for a pair of games. Do this 3-5 times. Your regular PAHL team isn't doing this. To those that complain about the travel, you completely ignore that most/all of the parents enjoy it. And the parents that travel a lot are "hockey rich". Which is more wealthy than the average rich family. The other thing about playing a challenging schedule as a AA without travel is that a lot of ice is required. Looking at SHAHA 09, they are hosting teams but had to rent ice from Rostraver. Say you want to bring in 4 teams and offer every team 4 games, that is a lot of ice. Most teams that travel for independent games travel for a minimum of 2 but prefer 4 if it is
    2 points
  17. The automatic offsides is the stupidest thing in all of hockey.
    2 points
  18. one thing WE can all agree on is NONE of theirs BY teams are no where close to being a aaa team. mediocre at best aa teams. King Ralph is laughing all the way to the bank
    2 points
  19. The only teams that should be traveling this far to find competitive games are legit Tier 1 teams!
    2 points
  20. Generally, I find the larger the tournament the more likely you will have competitive games. The more teams the better the tournament director can divide teams into tighter skill ranges and the less the teams the more likely you will get someone out of place shoved into a bracket (either someone who beats all the other teams handily or gets beat by everyone).
    2 points
  21. A team's manager or head coach needs to contact the tournament director prior to registering and ask for a list of participating teams in whatever division they plan on entering. Most will give you this info and then decide based off the other teams that are participating. If the tournament is unwilling to do this, I would suggest moving on to something different, there's enough to go around. No reason to go to NY or VA to play teams that are 20 minutes down the road.
    2 points
  22. Wow!! The Luftansa Heist looks like a child's play compared to these guys.
    2 points
  23. Oh, I agree they do. But they go Vengeance or Esmark now. SHAHA puts out better BY than the Preds. So I scoff more at the idea of going to Preds when cut.
    2 points
  24. Pens cuts go where ever they want. Don't think most organizations turn them away.
    2 points
  25. I think they might be. Either preds or Esmark depending on where you live. I don't think vengeance take pens cuts or they would be going there too.
    2 points
  26. I'm just throwing some ideas around. I thought that was the point of this forum. And I'm not talking about one or two teams. I'm talking about the entire landscape of PAHL and trends I'm seeing. I'd rather adapt than shout at the wind (BY teams) and ask it to change directions. Thanks to everyone for helping me think through this issue. Some good thoughts in here.
    2 points
  27. Problem becomes the AA. Too many parents feel it is beneath their kids to play A. By playing independent you can hid a weak BY team with a weak schedule and still call it AA. Some come back to PAHL but most don't.
    2 points
  28. I thought it may have been discussed on here before, even though I know the inner workings I’m not sure it’s my place to put it all out there. The short that I feel everyone around knows (with out the 2 years of major details) he questioned the excel / nc thing publicly - Morehouse threatened to kick his kids out of the program - PPE didn’t like that he was doing “free” skills across the street to help kids - he voiced his opinion on lesser players (2003) getting showcased (it’s pretty obvious now he was correct) - Morehouse banned him from the rink so he went to the away games 😂There is a lot, in the end, he came out on top - not just his own son but others he believed in. especially an 02 PPE kicked out that is on a path to play for PSU. I could list 10 players from 02-03 birth year that he was directly involved with that are all playing real junior hockey in the ushl, ohl etc. all these kids are on a track to major ncaa d1 programs or pro. PPE used some of these kids to get a national championship for a certain group of 2003’s playing up at U16 and tossed the others because the families wouldn’t pay (or couldn’t afford) the ransom. I’m sure In another 2-3 years these kids will be on the upmc rinks wall but PPE had nothing to do with their success. Someone else did, Marc.
    2 points
  29. Is there actually an election for PAHL??? I've had children in hockey for 10+ years here and literally never seen a ballot or communication directly from PAHL.
    2 points
  30. There are approximately 8 organizations that I can see supporting BY teams. Hornets / N. Pitt / SHAHA / Preds / SCIR / S. Pitt / Allegheny / Foxes That said, it would be really hard to have 8 organizations with BY teams without wondering how it compromises the rest of the organizations and also teams within their divisions. I think it would be great for the organizations involved but also cause a massive competitive imbalance throughout the rest of the league that would be playing mixed BY. You would have teams like Cambria and Westmoreland fielding teams with their top players playing against the essential “team 3”s from the larger orgs. As I stated before, many of the teams on the outer regions of the PAHL jurisdiction already have 3-4 players per team playing a few divisions below their talent level. On the other hand, the better “known quantity” tournaments in the country (CCM, Superseries etc…) are all trending toward birth year divisions. The mixed BY tournaments like MYHockey etc. are such a crap shoot with lopsided and mismatched divisions way too often. it’s a tough call in a day and age where even everyone A Major and above are supplementing their PAHL schedule with teams from Ohio, NY etc.. and birth year being a factor in scheduling those games. I only have ideas but can’t form a perfect solution as of yet.
    2 points
  31. not all organizations let full teams join their association, but there are some that are known to let coachs/dads bring in a almost full team. I think people on here probably know which ones do and which ones dont the problem that poses is some of those pahl teams who want to be independent or AA/a teams get mad when organization won't let them, so they jump to these other organizations that will let them. also, if you ever look at schedules, the independent and AA/a teams rarely play any PAHL teams. they are afraid of losing. they have no problem driving to Columbus or buffalo and going 0-3 over the weekend with a 4-30 goal differential as long as it isn't a PAHL team.
    2 points
  32. PAHL has to do a better job. A lot of this lies at their feet and the league should not get a free pass with the exodus. Honestly, I believe that they should still govern AA but it needs to be treated differently than A minor 3. The AA divisions are notoriously too big every year and the gap between the top and bottom is historically immense.I get the fact that this is somewhat of a necessity because nobody wants to play in a 5 team division but… just spitballing here… - Make the AA division 12 teams with a 20 game schedule (yes.. organizations can charge more). Mid season, divide the top 6 and the bottom 6 onto two separate divisions. Relegation if you will. This way, the top teams aren’t obligated to spend another Sunday putting up a 10 spot on team 12 and each division could play for their own respective banner. -Start at squirt (because they are the youngest group and the players/teams that you want to get a buy in from) and work with the DVHL to play a season end AA tournament from the top 2-3 teams in each division for an AA state banner. Do a mid season tournament maybe. As a byproduct, teams from each side of the state could form good relationships and possibly set up independent games during the season. -Outside of AA, for the love of god…please do something about the placement process that allows some of the smaller organizations (Johnstown, Westmoreland, etc…) to have teams playing in A Major 2 hat have 3-4 players who are playing 1 to 2 divisions below their skill level and dominate. I get the fact that they have a smaller pool of players but something has to give here. It has been going on for years. I don’t necessarily have a solution but it is a problem. Some of the goal differentials are staggering. I know that I have offered other ideas on other threads but PAHL needs to revamp a bit and offer a modicum of critical thinking. Lastly, as far as the independent teams leaving PAHL… there are SOME teams over the years that fall into the category of not have being anywhere near the calibre of PPE or Tier 1 but can see that they are a few notches above what PAHL AA will have to offer on the upcoming season. It’s not every year or age group but it does happen. Kudos to the teams who legitimately see that and make a move as opposed to spending their weekends winning games by 7-8 goals. It’s the copycat teams that go independent just for the sake of doing it that create the problems. Pick the above ideas apart if you want or… crazy thought here.. modify or add to them. I understand that there are logistical issues with what I’m proposing but everything starts with an idea and a little bit of thinking. I want PAHL to be successful and a place where all skill levels are nurtured. The landscape has changed and it won’t happen when they keep running out the same old model year after year for AA all the way down to B. This is another contributing factor as to why some teams, right or not, leave.
    2 points
  33. What a shame, but I've seen it all before. So they'll play eleven year-olds from 4 hour drive away, and backfill their schedule with local tournaments like MyHockey A2 and HockeyTime A2 in which they wind up playing PAHL teams anyway. It's pretty contemptible to think that eleven year-olds can't develop in PAHL, and morally bankrupt to convince others of the same. The good news ahead is that the average hockey parent is pretty smart will eventually figure this BS out. Sometimes you just have so spend enough of your money and your time to realize what's going on.
    2 points
  34. Going BY at 10U or 12U is a good idea if you are a larger organization with enough players at each year to field teams. Going BY would be bordering on the impossible for smaller organizations like Beaver County, Altoona, Indiana, State College, etc. There is also a misconception that being BY equals a higher level of play, it does not especially at 10U/12U where the skill/talent level between AA teams can be enormous, and that is not even considering the skill/talent level between the players on a given team. When the skill gap from team to team becomes too large, that is when you are going to see teams go independent at the younger ages. I have the feeling from talking to parents that the frustration is with teams being misplaced within a given division and games not being competitive. I think we can all agree that nobody wants to get up at 6AM on a Saturday/Sunday morning just to go to a rink and watch your players team either win or lose 7-0.
    2 points
  35. I don’t think renaming a turd makes it any less of a turd. I mean at what point does it stop? Theoretically we could just rename every level AA and have a AA-AA Major all the way down to a AA-B Minor and it’s still the same problem. And I truly do appreciate that you want to improve the product.
    2 points
  36. I disagree with this only in and of as much as I have found the rankings REALLY helpful in finding teams + or -30 of mine in the rankings to play for very competitive games.
    2 points
  37. A step to end this independent AA and faux AAA BS is to remove all Tier 2 and AAA rankings below No. 50 (and thats’s a stretch) from My Hockey Rankings. There’s no point in ranking these teams as they are irrelevant on a national scale.
    2 points
  38. I can’t tell you how many times over the years I’ve seen big / tall kids have a nice clean hit but get called for roughing, boarding etc (Pahl, varsity & tier 1). All the while smaller kids get away with flying elbows. I don’t think this is any sort of league or level of play issue, it’s the refs & usa hockey. my niece is playing Pahl, her father just explained the fpp system to me, that wasn’t around when my kids were in Pahl. I understand what they are trying to do with it but execution is awful. I was also informed that if a player gets four minor penalties in a game they get suspended a game. This rule is even worse than the fpp point IMO. What does this serve ? We are talking about minor penalties - tripping, hooking etc there already is an advantage given for these non violent and non contact penalties called the POWER PLAY.
    2 points
  39. I concur with the argument about general talent dilution but also the fact that everybody who wants to pay gets to play travel and there’s 8-12 different divisions tailored to each team dilutes things as well. I personally don’t really care about the quality of youth hockey in the area that much. I really have no reason to. But to that affect, when there was simply a AA, A and B divisions, and each organization fielded 1 team in each, it was a different feel.
    2 points
  40. I've seen multiple games already be curfewed in part due to the extra stoppages.
    2 points
  41. At this point I'm just waiting for the EXCEL Academy Daycare to pop up. A competitive environment for your hockey minded infant/toddler ages 18m-4 years. The sad thing is that I personally know of a couple parents that would be all over it.
    2 points
  42. As I run into a lot of you at the rinks - thanks for all of the kind words about our project. Here is a quick update. Check out the reviews and watch it with your player (What's $3.99 when we spend $60 for an hour for lessons) https://filmthreat.com/reviews/1st-year-checking/ http://novastreamnetwork.com/documentary/review-1st-year-checking/ (Australia?) https://hockey-blog-in-canada.blogspot.com/2021/08/tmc-1st-year-checking.html https://midwestfilmjournal.com/2021/08/16/1st-year-checking/ (Questions my ethics! How dare they! but overall good review) Check it out at www.1styearchecking.com Rent at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBpnoYzWMjo. Thanks again! Mess
    1 point
  43. Totally. USA Hockey training is fabulous at making hockey boring. Add in teenagers with short attention spans and it is a recipe for disaster. They need a mentoring system for new refs. They learn more by doing.
    1 point
  44. Maybe the redevelopment plan is to use the site for the successor to PPG Arena? At this rate the time frame works out 🤣
    1 point
  45. I have watched a handful of games this weekend and this rule change is an absolute joke. It's as if the clowns within USA Hockey want the youth game to be unwatchable. Slowly but surely they are succeeding.
    1 point
  46. Look over here everyone, look what we're doing for diversity in hockey. Pay no mind to the 10 years and counting for those folks who were told the old Mellon Arena site would be redeveloped to help their community. You think they care about an ice rink that's 3 bus rides away? Me thinks they'd much rather have what they were promised.
    1 point
  47. Didn’t take long for national politics to take the stage. Can’t believe you people still think any of these politicians “feel your pain” or have your best interests in heart.
    1 point
  48. it doesnt even attract the best kids, most of the best kids for west where at the chowder cup
    1 point
  49. What do you expect from Libbo?
    1 point
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