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Problem #1 with this is that a squirt team has played more than 25 games before Thanksgiving.

Hockey isn't about fun. It's about getting to the NHL. You obviously haven't been to a white mite game lately.

And that is where the issue comes in. The guy who owns the team has a history of being very shady. I can only assume the team will fold mid-season and he will have "lost" all the sponsors money.

Link to Video https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nnpmt3e4h5338gg4o78yb/IMG_5102.mov?rlkey=yrtbsu2yvr3511007mzze9tax&dl=0

Oh, nobody. He meant that in general. There's video of the signing (probably signing money over to the owner is what they signed lol) from the UPMC Center on their Facebook page. The owner looks like he's right out of central casting as a con man, cheap used-car salesman suit and all. I'm surprised he stopped short of blowing cigar smoke in the faces of the players while they signed their papers.

The better mens league teams in the area would beat the river monsters by 10+

My thoughts... you pick the school based on your future and where you will be happiest, not your desire to play hockey for 4 years to be better at beer league, but not enjoy your 4 years at college or come out with a degree that you didn't enjoy getting because the college you chose for club hockey didn't have the major you wanted 🤷. Good news is a ton of colleges have club hockey, so start with what campus and majors make your 4 years enjoyable and your future bright.

That’s one of the reasons why I wanted to share it. It’s one piece of the whole picture. For those who pursue Juniors and don’t get a sniff at NCAA D3, these are good options - and many are much better quality schools than you find in NCAA D3. Several points in the article are valid even for the lower divisions in ACHA and AAU. The variety of fees, possible student run/student coached, etc. Also, depending on the school, some struggle to field a team, while it can be very competitive to make any team at others. Even lower division schools “recruit” and have prospect skates. Getting in touch with the coach in advance is important. Assuming because you’ve played a decent level of hockey here in western PA is no guarantee you’ll make a team. I’ve just encountered a lot of disappointed players/families lately who didn’t have enough insight, and figured it might be a helpful topic for this board. I’m just trying to encourage others to share their insights on college club hockey to show the full picture.

A buddy of mine tried out on a lark. Career beer leaguer no higher than C and that’s pushing it. 50 or so years of age. Apparently you have to sell a bunch of sponsorships in order to get considered for the roster. To me, that’s a lot for the possible distinction of having a hockeydb entry at best. Also there’s another dude that made the team that never played youth hockey and just began in adult league at Ice Castle and has likely never delivered or received a check (hockey check). Not downplaying peoples’ dreams here but some shit doesn’t compute. If that’s what you want and it makes you happy, go for it. The team and maybe league will likely fold. This is a step down from the old MAHL. Several steps down and that’s not saying a lot. Makes Sticks and Stillettos look like Gary Bettman.

My guess is he doesn’t like the fact that people have to scroll way down in MHR to find the majority of AHF and THF teams. Not good for business. Also, IMO they are just doing what is happening here locally (independent and faux AAA) on a national scale with AHF and THF. Exploiting parents that think their players are better than what’s available locally and want to be a part of something “bigger and better”. How do you even call something “Tier 1” if it’s not actually the top. It’s a growing problem in society where if we aren’t good enough to be the best, we don’t want to hear it, and just create our own version and pretend the rest doesn’t exist. And companies have figured out how to profit from our weakness.

Liberty previously used PGH officials exclusively for their games for over a decade when they when they independent before temporarily joining a conference. No joke because of all the places they played, they felt we were the best. Game fees were great, paid for our travel, and provided hotel rooms. They would schedule the top programs and it was amazing to officiate games between those teams in that environment. The LaHaye Center opened in 2006 and renovated in 2015 to add more seating and private suites which were already sold out prior to the season. I have a video of us taking the ice during a midnight madness game in 2015, I'll try and post it below.

They actually were gonna charge me $1000+ to play for the team. So you are basically breaking even.

We need a tournament to decide of course! Bragging rights to the Rink that fields the team. Might get more fans than a River Monsters game.

34 days to the first scheduled league games! Will it actually get off the ground? What are the odds? 50/50, 25/75. Will the con-man be the demise of the Pittsburgh team? Could it survive with someone else running the team? Maybe Danner should take it over and show us all how to run it! Will the league fold before the Pittsburgh team? So far it looks like 16 committed teams! Who is the Coach of the Pittsburgh team? Would the best Beer League team in SWPA beat the River Monsters? Can you tell I am bored this morning?

No matter who is playing where, let's not lose the focus here.... Jaison Kelly is a con artist. He's taking advantage of people once again. Now he's exploiting "semi-pro" hockey players by making them pay him to play. That doesn't sound "semi-pro" to me. So the players throw in 25 bucks per practice? Is this every player doing this? Wow.

It's a good one, and I predict will only get better!

Very shady? I'd go a step further and say a history of being a criminal. I'd find some other beer league to play in. I wouldn't give this guy a dime or trust him with anything. This isn't someone who simply made a bad decision or was in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a pattern of deceptive and fraudulent behavior. The guy's a conman. Of course since it's white collar money crimes, he'll continue to get slaps on the wrist and be able to keep up the next grift as fast as he can come up with them. If you want to have a laugh, find the video of the "contract signing" on the team's Facebook page. Dude is like straight out of central casting as a crooked used-car dealer. If I was those players, I'd be very apprehensive of signing anything knowing his prior history of forgery and not honoring them. Apparently since he can't sell insurance or cars in the state of PA anymore, he does "exotic animal" show & tells at nursing homes and birthday parties now. I wouldn't let this huckster get within 50 yards of a vulnerable old person. I pre-emptively feel bad for whoever is getting fleeced in this hockey venture. Here's a couple of his easily-found run-ins with the law. https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:3361510b-442f-49bd-bdae-24affc29943e https://acrobat.adobe.com/id/urn:aaid:sc:VA6C2:b1fb1bfe-7010-4ded-a587-80a040d4a1fc

Not the coach that sits at the bar before/ in between games getting hammered and fresh off his 2nd DUI.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67419951

So you're supposedly here to learn about hockey, however don't want to listen to and disregard people who have lived it and experienced it for years? Got it.

BB uses their Krach system to schedule the AHF. I have worked a half dozen of their games in the last couple of weeks. All but one was a running clock (5 goal differential). In half of them the running clock started near the beginning of the second period. So, not sure that system is any better at matching teams. For any system to work, you need lots of data spread across the entirety of the group you are trying to rank. That's why the MHR ranking gets better as the season goes on. The points made about teams playing only within their area/pod definitely hurts the accuracy of the system.

I also think he's making a good point about the point spread. Even worse than that is when you win a game and the kids feel like garbage because they only won by 3 instead of 5 and other crap like that. Sucks the fun and the interest in winning out. Leaves everyone bitter and jaded.

You and I both know that the teams around here, at least, aren't going to play each other unless tournament fate somewhere pits them against each other. We all know why.

Nothing worse than weekend HS hockey

I guess I missed the sarcasm. Haha

Just a follow up from Lynchburg. Between 3,000 and 3,500 fans for a Saturday 7PM start. They love their hockey at Liberty. It is a 1st class organization and the game day experience is amazing. Very profesional! Game was tied 1-1 with 10 minutes to go before Liberty pulled away for a 3-1 win.

Beer league has better ice slots. Apparently Pitt M1 plays at Liberty tonight with midnight puck drop.

PA Hockey is probably in Jamestown NY for the Scholastic Showcase. Good luck to Western PA teams playing there this weekend.

Jaison Kelly is a joke of an owner. He has these guys forking out $25 a practice and they're paying to get on the ice for games as well. Literally no hockey knowledge whatsoever, and it's become extremely evident as things have went on. This team actually has a lot of skilled guys who are working hard to play and make this fun for the fans, but Jaison is going to be the reason they have problems. As a caring fan, everyone should know what's really going on here. I have nothing but bad things to say about the guy, and this post is me being nice about it! He's a raging narcissist.

That's the crazy thing. They have a lot of kids starting at "elite" 8u or whatever. Not many, or any, left by 16u-18u most years. By 12u-14u, they arent developed as much as other players from elsewhere, and they start getting cut loose in favor of outsiders. The ones that have made it somewhere truly impressive had more development outside of Pens, and probably would've succeeded going further with or without the Pens Elite. But, regardless where they pull their older players from and probably because of it, they're the most legit AAA option in the area and it's really not even close.

My point was it sounds like a big deal to a lot of people, while mostly not amounting to anything. But it looks good on the lcd tv's in the Cranberry lobby.

I recall there was ONE game my kid played against a Badgers team where their players and parents acted like human beings the whole game. It really was shocking. I was pretty surprised.

It isn’t geographic. Moon, Chartiers Valley and Avonworth are in a different section that Montour, West Allegheny and Quaker Valley when those districts actually border each other. The amount of travel added to all these teams is tremendous. And in my opinion absolutely stupid. Why divide teams that are natural rivalries? I think whoever was in charge of making the divisions did a real disservice to all those teams and their fans.

Keep in mind it's youth sports were talking about.

So where does the "All knowing Danner" Rank Pitt? Since I'm sure you have seen the 13 teams ahead of them and 11 below them play! Just curious!

Hey, there's always the Fed league.

At the Moon Richland game last night. Richlands first game back in PIHL and the after the 2 hour drive, they had to stand through a 15 minute 67 jersey retirement for the Moon player who passed away last spring in a car accident. So how did they handle it? By hanging a 67 Richland jersey behind their bench. Class act all around from Richland. tenband tv broadcast the ceremony and game if anyone is interested.

Just a thought here.... kids pick the college based on the college and the degrees they offer (crazy, I know) and are happy they have a club hockey team and can play the sport they love while getting the education they want at a campus that fits their personality and they are happy living there for 4 years 🤷🤔. So tearing apart any club hockey teams performance is just a bit...... I don't know about any of you, but I'd rather my kid come out with a good job vs trophy and a secured spot on the top beer league team.

For some and a minority

That's 100% correct, but don't tell Danner. Unless they play for Liberty or Adrian they should all quit hockey. Then Liberty and Adrian can play each other 42 times in the regular season, best of 3 in the quarters, best of 5 in the semis and best of seven in the finals. Then, and only then will there be a true Champion. Has anyone heard of FAU? Those kids should have all quit basketball in Danner's world. It must absolutely suck to live in danner's world.

He is a pretty good hockey player with good grades, decent SAT scores, and went to a high school in a good school district. Played both AA travel and AAA high school and was a leader on the teams. He got into most schools he applied to. Good enough hockey player that some of those better ACHA programs were receptive to his overtures. The college search was a little difficult because I don't think he knew exactly what he wanted in a school. We visited a lot of schools. He applied to A LOT of them, both in and out of state. Colleges make it harder on themselves and the kids by offering free applications, I think. Those fees make you pause a little before applying. I did a lot of check ins with him because he was initially pretty excited to have a coach interested in him, and he wasn't thinking about cost or if the school was a good academic fit. He committed to a good school. Club hockey may or may not be in his future. The school does have its own rink and intramural hockey, which I didn't even know was a thing, so he can still get hockey if he wants if he doesn't make one of the club teams. That made him happy. It all just ends at some point. ?‍♂️ But truly, the beauty of hockey is that it doesn't have to end. It is a sport where you can still do it if you want, for as long as you want. It's not the same, but still lots of fun. Coaching, beer league, whatever. It's not the end of the world when it ends. Just sad. I am a little sad. ?

Most intelligent post I have ever read on this site. Very well said.

No offense Danner, but my family is doing this right now, and I still say, not being able to get into the school and the expense are more influential on Western Pa kids leaving the area than not getting on the local club hockey team. We parents compare notes. Pitt is a bigish school with one club team. Hard to get into the school, hard to get on the team. Duquesne is crazy expensive. Pitt, PSU, RMU...they are expensive imho. RMU was most generous with merit offer for us, but wasn't a good fit for what my kid wanted to study. To my knowledge, Miami University doesn't recruit for their club teams. Or maybe that was just my kid. ? Ohio, they want you to have some sort of hockey experience outside of youth/high school, even for their club teams, but who knows, maybe if you are good enough you could walk on during try outs. Kent tells you the same thing but they have kids rostered that came straight from high school. Depends on how good the kid is and who came out, I bet. The ACHA is all over the place. Bowling Green has a club team that is coached by the players. It really depends on the school. Adrian College loves their hockey and it is tough as hell to be rostered on their club three team. They recruit. But the school itself is....not so good academically. You have to research and be creative in your research, because it is hard to find information. Everyone's needs are going to be different. My kid wants to play club. He reached out to coaches of schools he was interested in. Even at the club level, if you want to play, it's a good idea to get on their radar. It's hard to pick a team just based on a tryout, I think. The coaches are all over the place in how they respond. Everything from, cool, come out to a practice and skate with the team, to....here's the dates for our prospect skates...to...see you in August for tryouts. I don't know that this is politics or....life. Kind of like getting a job. Is it crazy to do this for club? Well, yeah. But it happens in youth travel hockey all the time, too. For anyone interested, once my kid figured out what he wanted to study, we looked for schools known for those programs that have club hockey and went from there. Looked at rosters and Elite Prospects, whatever that website is, to try and see where kids played before getting on the team. It gives you a good idea if your kid has a chance and will fit with the program. Ohio University's rosters are littered with AAA kids and kids that played juniors, for instance. Then if it was a fit, he applied to the school and got in. Then reached out to coaches to gauge interest. And I keep telling my kid....you might not make the team. You might get hurt. You might decide playing is too much. Will you be happy at this school if hockey doesn't happen? Because at the end of the day, it's about getting a job after getting that degree. And no one is giving you money to play club hockey. You either qualify for merit money based on need or scholastics or you are paying. If you want scholarship money....grades grades grades. High SAT or ACT. Rigorous courses if you want in a popular degree at PSU Main or Pitt. You need those things before even worrying about the club hockey team. Oh...and ask when practices are. It's beer league times or 6 am practices now with most club programs. When you try to balance that with studies...I know that was a deal breaker for some kids.

I agree with some of what you’re saying, but by saying “those esmark kids” sounds like you’re almost stereotyping them to be bad. And to my knowledge the billet family who is sending there kid to play pays the billet family hosting it.

They should not have been allowed to play with a 2007 freshman Esmark AAA kid, but QV can play with an Esmark 2006 AAA sophomore goalie. Ok that sounds logical.

THIS!!! Maybe there are still a few players left in this world that this is why they still play. But you know for Danner and the disappointment that he harbors due to his kids not reaching HIS goals for them, he must bash all hockey. For those who think he offers great insight and an unbiased opinion, just remember he doesn't even tell the truth about his own kid's playing experience. He claims he has a 99 that played at PPE and was drafted into the USHL. Never happened. No 99's from PPE fall into that category. Reader beware.

I would fall into the 1/2 of the parents that wanted to see my son continue to play hockey. Partially because I feel his best years could be in front of him, he graduated younger (17) than most kids in his grade. The biggest reason to see him continue was the discipline that comes with being part of team. Transitioning to college can be tough, being a part of something helps to ease that transition. Being a part of a team gives you and immediate social group, people you have at least one thing in common with. Also, mandatory study time, prefered scheduling, tutor assistance and someone who is checking in with your youngster besides mom and dad. If your looking at ACHA or M1,M2, or M3 as an avenue for your child to continue to play at a high level you may want to rethink that process. I could be wrong but I don't think many college players transition to another level to advance their hockey career. I'm sure it is competitive and everyone still wants to win but reading these posts are a bit concerning. I miss being at the rink and watching my son play. We still love hockey and go to several games a year, however, now we enjoy a round of golf and talking about what the future holds outside of hockey. For those of you that are concerned, there is life after hockey. Good luck with whatever you decide and whatever path your child decides to take. Spend your money however you wish, you can always make more.

My guess is that half of the kids playing at some of the schools mentioned are doing it because THEY want to and the other half are playing because their parents want them to. Don’t underestimate the fact that hundreds and hundreds of parents have been on the PPE/Esmark youth hockey train for years and can’t come to grips that the real D1 and NHL dream and sell job has to end. Not for the player but for the parents. They’ve spent so many years thumping their chests about their kid dominating at squirt through midget and looking down their nose at PAHL and their “faux” buddies that they just can’t come to grips with reality. Why? Because it’s always been about them and not their son or daughter. (Don’t even get me started on the idiotic “gap year” so you can show up at your local rink sporting a hoodie or hat of some nondescript “junior” team in Alabama that had a tryout camp that you had to pay for your kid to go to… oh yeah, and his “advisor” told you and your wife that he is the only 5 tool player on the Muskrats squad) Listen, I’m all about people having hockey as a part of their life. And I’ll never tell a young kid that they have no chance to make it to the NHL. But at the same time, people can’t come here and bash “faux” and PAHL teams but talk seriously about college club hockey being anything but a couple more years of putting on a jersey and being part of a team. And honestly, I who would want to spend another 4 years (while paying tuition) with disgruntled PPE/Excel castoffs reminding everyone how much better they are than you. Even though they ended up in the same place as the “faux” boys. It’s bad enough when they can’t handle checking at bantam and get relegated to your PAHL team. Get out while you can. lol On that note, cheers to all of the young men and women still playing after high school because they love the game.

I think the information you give is good. But the way you talk about how bad teams are, and by association how bad the players are, could probably be better left out of your comments. I have watched a number of club games through the years, at different levels of both men and women, and I have seen good hockey at all levels. Bad hockey sometimes too. Just because a player or team isn’t at the top of whatever team or league they are on/in doesn’t mean that they are incapable of playing sound hockey and even making amazing plays sometime. By your reasoning the only hockey worth watching has to be NHL.

Danner, why do you hate everything related to hockey? Better yet, since you do, why not retire from here and find a hobby you might enjoy a bit more?