2muchAAAinWPA

I think you hit the nail on the head. Its finding a way to leverage the best of both. Taking the large capital backed corporate machine, and combining it with the "right" parent volunteers to help run as coaches, board members and managers. The challenge is meeting in the middle. You cant stop BB, but you can work with them if you meet them in the middle. Another thing to mention is the perception of PAHL and MidAM. As parents we fund the salaties these PAHL and MidAM reps make, and some of them make a lot of money. As the people that fund thes orgs, we have no say in how they are governed, therefore we have no say in how they are run. I read the PAHL minutes, and its same ol same ol, same PAHL. People are tired of it. No one knows what these PAHL and MidAM executives do. We dont see the accountability on the teams, coaches, parents, etc. IMO, so many independent teams and AAA teams exist as people are tired of playing in PAHL. I think this is where BB and the AHF can bridge that gap. Look at all the AAA teams in the area, not all are AAA but parents are willing to pay the AAA dollars to play outside of the only othet option, PAHL. Thats is also happening with AA. So many of these AA teams are playing independent schedules on top of PAHL schedules, and parents are happy to send it. Viper Stars is a good example. 4500 to play on their u14 and up teams. Practices, off ice conditioning, and a 60+ game schedule. If you look at my hockey rankings, many of the other AA teams are playing schedules of similar size. Maybe AHF can offer a comparable product for cheaper, given the size of the org and the various markets they are in.

This is one reason people are fed up with Mid AM, same with PAHL. For a non-profit, these people are making a lot of money and the source of the money (parents) have no say in who governs.

This much is clear. They have 4 rinks already and control or influence over the orgs in their rinks. PAHL cant stop it. As with anything in this world, money talks. When you have 4 billion in capital to work with, can the single owner rink afford to not listen? If this is going to continue, which it is, is it better to cooperate or dig in and fight as long as you can? I dont see how PAHL can fend BB off, if they wanted to. Its really in the rink owners, who own a single rink squaring off against a corporation that owns 36 now (think he just bought two more), can you afford not to? Im sure there are some owners that will not sell but if the orgs dont join their AHF league, the org and the rink will suffer in a dying PAHL division. (Look at DVHL - which still exists, so not all hope is lost). Maybe its worth cooperating to salvage what can be salvaged, or at least accept certain levels of compromise. Whats better for youth hockey in this area? Is it a knock down drag out fight or work with the incoming to keep the programs that are building, investing and improving. Im on the middle on this. I think BB could be good thing, it seems like it could be a better product than PAHL and MidAM. Is it perfect? Nothing is in youth sports is. Either way its coming, surf the wave or get toppled over and hope you float to the top. I dont rejoyce about the Vipers current situation, it will be hard to find a new home. Alpha is buying up all of Shadysides ice, so their school league is using a lot of that. Its possible they could move there. Butler? Shadyside Academy, what Alpha doesnt buy? What about that Hunt Armory, I dont know it or who plays there, would they have ice. I dont think any of the one sheet rinks would have enough, like Nevin. I can see Vipers losing a bunch of kids to Huskies, Renegades, or Aviators. Its tough, hope they find a solution. If you havent at least read up on the AHF, Blackstone Investment group, Black Bear sports, Murry Gunty. Websites and social media are a good start. Make an informed decision about whether or not its a worthy fight or worth compromising. One thing that does concern me is while we have a lot of bad parents and coaches in youth sports, there are a lot of good folks who put their time in and work to do things right. Watching people like that work hard to do it the right way getting pushed out does suck. I hope they find a way to stay invovled if thats the case. Sure its demoralizing, but if your character is true, another opportunity will be there for you to continue to support youth hockey.

Who is to say BB is a bad thing? Sure ive seen negative posts on social media, but not the point where it encompasses a large majority. Does anyone have any facts to show that areas where BB takes over is bad, outside of a handful of a unhappy folks? Most of what I see when I look on social media are the ppl that were taken over and pushed out complaining. The hockey team for my child played three teams (in tournaments) that were in AHF from eastern PA and the coaches/ parents i talked to raved at how much better it was, despite the exrta cost. Who is to say BB isnt better? Only bad thing I see is the extra cost as a downside, but most ppl would pay more for better quality. I mean, ive seen bad orgs run by parents in PAHL. There are plenty around west PA (not saying that about NHAHA - only mentioning them as they were refered to earlier, this is about all orgs), but with a tier 1, tier 2, the AHF league, a large capital of 40 businesses generating 1 bil revenue and 3.7 bil combined capital, not to mention they are hiring experienced hockey personal to run them - there is the possibility (depends on your level of optimism) that BB can do better. This post alone has thousands of views and only a few bad opinions. I hear claims but no real facts, other that what I found when I researched BB and Murry Gunty online. Look at the summaries of their corporate and operating team, seems to me they have lots of capital and buying power, they even push to keep costs down by using their large number of rinks to negotiate national deals in marketing (Labatts) and for cleaning (Cintas). PIA was a disgusting mess, at least it gets cleaned now. Lastly, they hire qualified people with experience. PPI worked a deal with UPMC to increase funding from non-profits to boost operating capital that helps with rink repairs. So they raise the ice costs, they have a right to, they own it and from what i see, they improve their facilities. At one point you couldnt even open the door to get out of PIA, BB fixed that in a week. As far as hurting youth hockey, Rink Rats were dying, Rebellion is growing. Printscspe is a nice facility, and regardless of the deal that was made, Rebellion are working with BB and growing. Badgers are still strong org with PPI and BB has been working with them for 2 years. Phantoms show signs of growth. Curious to watch Rostravier and Mon Valley. That was a dying rink with a shrinking program, lets see what BB buying leads to. Can only get better imo. Having been at NHAHA, when BB yook over, I saw first hand the meeting with them that some members of the NHAHA board were very hostile with their questions and comments. I dont know how their private meetings went from there, but from comments from those I talked to suggested it was more of the same. You cant be hostile when trying to compromise and you have to give to get. I think BB could be a good thing. I welcome taking the bad board parents, coaches and managers, who make decisions for their own good as opposed to whats best for the org, out of the loop. You could argue that BB is better qualified as opposed to volunteer parents. Maybe that is why those that get ousted are more upset, its about losing their control than whats best for hockey growth. Idk Im sure this post wont be well recieved by some or many. My point is to say there are always more perspectives on any situation. Assuming BB is bad cause a few handfuls say so, without researching, is irresponsbile. Also, whats bad for one person or group is not bad for the rest.

According to a Facebook post by Pittsburgh Ice Arena, Esmark will be offered ice there. PIA will offer ice to the Huskies and Esmark. Which now begs the question is Esmark gonna move from NHAHA to Huskies? There are comments on the post about it by NHAHA board members who seem to think that Esmark is staying with NHAHA but Id be curious to know what Esmark coaches/operators have to say. If PIA/BB was working a deal with Huskies on the side, whats stopping them from doing the same with Esmark? It could be Esmark moves to Printscape under Rebellion. AMR24 is a board member on NHAHA, she may have more info. There was an earlier post suggesting that move, to pick up talent from that part of the area, which makes sense. Is Kosick or Yuri on here? Maybe they can clear up the speculation. Idc, im just watching and waiting to see what happens. Either way, its clear that you either cooperate with BB or they arent afraid to explore alternatives in parallel.

I rest my case! Thanks for the shining example of what i was saying. He is out and should have been, please quote me where i said i have his back. Again, read, self educate and speak in facts. You should really learn not to assign emotion to others words.

PIHO is an LLC of which he was the CEO of, no longer. So PIHO already removed him and replaced him = taking action. He doesnt own PIHO. He ran it, but no longer as a result of what can assumed was this recent event. Im sure more coming. Any time a coach is ejected, its reviewed by the member org, PAHL/PIHL, Mid-am if needed, and the PIHO. You should read up more before making false statements. This is all online from simple google searches. This is the other problem, too many assume and dont self learn before trying to talk about something. Read the PIHO and PAHL sites, learn, dont assume! At the minimum he should be suspended a game or more by PAHL. If he is a previous offender, they could come down harsher. There are rules in place for this, let the system work.

This site never ceases to amaze me. You have nay sayers claiming nothing will be done, some saying its not enough, one trashing the Badgers org..... some of you amaze me. And more to the point, you show just why "parents" are the biggest problem in youth sports. Im sure this is being looked at by every org he was apart of and there is a system to hand out the right disclipline. He was removed from his position, so PIHO looked at it, which means they sent it to PAHL and the hockey org he is from. Let the system work, speak in facts, and show some patience. Too many of you go into riot mode (pitchforks and torches) and blame anything and everything you can for the actions of one person. Again, parents are the worst.

He has been removed from his position by the PIHO. Fyi, Ed Miller does the scheduleing for Badgers, and PIA and Nevin, maybe a couple others. I am not an official, but my child is and this is the email that was sent out to officials just minutes ago.

Old topic but same issue. A lot of preseason scrimmages are locked down on livebarn, same behavior as previous years. Its one thing to block out a practice or inter-squad scrimmage, but locking down the ice for inter-org preseason scrimmages is a bit excessive. The scores all get posted on my hockey rankings so everyone knows the results, just allow us to watch our kids play from remote.

The used car salesman is the one running the AA Viper Stars program, more so than the Esmark coaches.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are lots of good organizations, in fact a case could be made for any of them, depending on who you talk to. In 8 years of youth hockey, Ive learned that no organization is perfect. Some are run better than others, differ in size, and differ depending on facility they use. A larger organization has better quality of skill levels of teams, while smaller ones have tiers within teams. It all comes down to you and your child and the level of play they want. There are bad people running orgs or coaching kids, i like to think there are more good than bad. But like all things in life, a negative experience gets more attention than a positive one. Sure there are bad people that create that bad experience for you but there is always a place to play hockey for your child. It depends on their level of passion of the game. Look for the good in a program, not dwell on the bad. Move on and find the place thats right for your child and your experience. As parents we get too caught up on how many A's are tied to the team we try out on. Ive seen parents throw other parents under the bus to help benefit their kid to get on a team. An organization is part what makes it up (coaches, players, parents, managers, board) and part what you make of it. If you arent happy with a coach, there are other coaches and teams. If you dont like how a board is run, then volunteer your time to help drive it to be better or look for another place to play. The same people that complain are ones that dont know or understand the challenges that come with running a program of kids. Every organization has its good times and bad times, and it can be good at one age and bad at another. The underlining problem is patience and acceptance. Kids develop and grow at different rates and times. Your kid could play AA one year and A the next. It all depends on them. Parents drive the need to move up in letters. Let the kid earn their spot. Sometimes they have to fail to grow/succeed. The only organizations that i feel are in a "bad" spot are the ones that promote AA or AAA teams that arent AA/AAA for sake of money. It doesnt do hockey good to sell people on AA and AAA if the talent isnt there. Pittsburgh doesnt have 5 teams worth of AAA talent and not all orgs can field a AA BY team. Just not enough. The other thing that parents have to understand is the coaches arent there to develop your kids individual skills. Too often i see parents complaining about lack of development from coaches. Coaches are there to coach the team. To coach systems and develop chemistry / team play. There isnt enough time to coach to develop every player. Thats up to the player and their parents. Conditioning and lessons is how individual skills are developed. A player will only develop so much from coaching in practice and games. They learn by game experiences and extra effort they put in away from the team via lessons and off ice conditioning. I will say as far as a coaches involvement with development, they have to give the child a chance or ice/game time to get those experiences. But to really develop it takes the extra stuff, lessons and such. The topic opens up a loaded discussion and im sure I could go on and on, but i wont. If anything, the best advice i can give is to tell anyone, remove the emotion from it. Step back and look at things without the emotion and speak in facts when evaluating an org you are in or looking at joining. Control your emotions and feeling and look at the pros not just the cons.