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The astounding thing about the PIHL classifications is they aren't based on a team's submitted roster at all. They are based on looking back at the team's results over the past 4 years. A team could theoretically add 15 AAA freshmen or newly enrolled players, go undefeated for a few years, and that team probably wouldn't move up divisions until after that class graduated. Perhaps someone can confirm, but McCort was seemingly a somewhat unique agreement allowing the Ukranian player pipeline to run through that school but were bumped up a division as a compromise.

Yes this thread is 2018, but could have been written today. Is eight years a long enough track record to show that Vengeance isn't a serious organization? I feel bad for the kids and families without homes because most of their AAA teams folded. But when they made a coaching announcement a month ago and most of the National Bound ages listed TBA for a coach, probably should have raised some alarm. I would even go so far as to say the stench from the Tier 1 vengeance has rubbed off on the Tier 2. There was a time not too long ago where SCIR was an attractive destination and had some success in A and AA. But I don't think that is any longer the case since rebranding to the Vengeance. Someone tell me im wrong.

With a number of new people popping up on this forum, and a number of us older guys probably soon to move on, I thought maybe a thread on "things we learned" would be productive. I'll start by sharing a story from yesterday. Sitting in the stands yesterday at a rink, I heard about a paid coach that is staying with the same team 3 years in a row because he's got a side piece mom on the team and another kids "sugar daddy" throwing money his way. Another coach that has his apartment paid for by a dad on the team. 10-year-olds that are relocating their entire family because they didn't make the local team they wanted. ANY ADVICE? Like what's the end goal for these parents making deals with coaches, when I assume their kids just aren't good enough to make the team legitimately? Also, ADVICE : If you're at a public rink with others around, might be wise to not gossip about other players, coaches and families. You never know who is nearby, small world this hockey community.

You have been pimping your plan for some time now. I assume your motive or intention is to add into the PIHL a couple dozen players that don't currently play because of Amateur team obligations. And you think this will improve the quality of the league and allow these kids to play with their classmates. I think the unintended consequence would actually be a more unbalanced and less competitive league. If I'm a high end AAA player and I go to some school with 2 wins in the last 2 years, do I really want to play for them? And even I'd I do, what's that get you 4 wins? On the flip side if I go to SV, QV, Peters, etc sure I might want to play for them and win a championship, So the good teams just get better. I will also argue, putting a couple AAA on a team also means a couple A players end up being cut, or sitting on a bench? So kids that have no chance of playing competitive hockey after high school suddenly miss out on that High school hockey experience that you keep promoting.

I just have to wonder if a local kid, San Jose draft pick and current BU player would give up playing in front of 5000 fans every night in Boston for the chance to go back and play in front of 1000 fans one time in West Chester. Or is it your argument that he would still be having the same level of success if he had played high school hockey half the time?

The local scholastic model doesn't resemble or compare to most of these other areas. The local model is essentially club hockey using the colors and logos of the local high schools. But it isn't even good club hockey, the teams are mostly administered by a group of parents whose interests lie more or less in the success of their kid and their team for a few years while their kid is playing. Very rarely is it administered by a true hockey person, or someone without a dog in the fight. These local players aren't getting any sort of long term development from playing for their school teams. I can think of just a few local teams that have strong consistent coaching and organization leadership that lends itself to any sort of long term development. Most of these other areas of the country where it is successful the program is administered by the actual school district and athletic directors. Additionally, go do yourself a favor and look up the high school enrollment of many of these schools in places like Massachusetts and Minnesota. Other than some small private schools, they have 1000+ student schools. Makes fielding competitive teams and leagues a little bit easier than it is around here. That's how you end up with 20 awful single A PIHL teams. And so you want these kids to stop traveling the country playing the Little Caesars of the world and instead stay at home playing (checks standings) um Freeport??

I just don't know what you are hoping to achieve with your crusade to have all the local kids play high school hockey. Do you just feel these kids are missing out on a high school sports experience? If that is the case, how do you feel about the kids that are clinging to roster spots on varsity teams that would be replaced by higher talent players? Don't their high school experiences matter? Are you trying to make the PIHL product better? Adding 1 or 2 players to mediocre teams isnt going to do much to improve the league. And my guess is most of these AAA caliber kids are highly concentrated in 3 or 4 districts. So the strong teams are just going to get better. If you are looking to improve high school hockey in the area, you could begin by relegating about 20 teams into a different developmental division. Then the remaining teams could play a regular season schedule with meaningful competitive games.

I have my doubts the Pens families are panicked about a Preds coach coming in and bringing his guys. The strongest kids are probably leaving for Junior after this season anyway. So there will be spots to fill. This happened a few years ago with the 08s. Vengeance and Pens both had good teams, the best 2 or 3 vengeance players went over to Pens. The remaining vengeance team was mediocre after that. I have no insight into the rosters of either team. But my guess is he will bring over a few of his strongest players remaining in Pittsburgh that want to play AAA 18u. The guys that he doesn't want will probably just play high school hockey or stay at Preds. And perhaps there are Preds players that didn't like him as a coach and have a problem with the Pens North Catholic model, and they have no interest in moving to Pens. If there is one thing I learned in years of being around youth hockey the idea of keeping a team together from year to year never happens. And moving a whole team from one organization to another is even more unlikely.

I give you credit for trying to make the PA area high school product better. But I think no matter what you do, you are just going to be creating different problems. In my estimation you are talking about 30-40 kids that aren't able to play high school because of their amateur teams rules or commitments. And even so, how many of those kids necessarily want to play for their high school. Again it's just my guess. But let's just say suddenly you add 40 high end players to PIHL. At least a dozen probably go to North Catholic for the pens program there, so you just created 1 super team that is essentially unbeatable. And then you have 1 or 2 high end players sprinkled around another 15-20 teams. The league already has competitive balance issues, so this isn't going to help. The overall quality of play in the league isn't likely to rise by adding 1 or 2 players to some teams rosters. But what is going to happen is team play is going to decrease and teams will just keep those strong players on the ice for 40 minutes a game. And lastly how would you like to be a kid currently representing their school. They are damn good hockey players, maybe they used to play AAA but just couldn't cut it, or lost interest in that level. But they are having success at high school, going to PIHL all star games, their classmates come watch them play. Then suddenly these new guys come in and show them up. I think we just need to realize Western PA High school Hockey isn't going to become Minnesota High school hockey. We have too many small schools, and not a deep enough talent base. If you want to see some high level local games, how about doing like the PIHL girls league does. NORTH, SOUTH, EAST, WEST. Top 20 high school aged players from each of those "areas" Now that would look like real hockey. I could imagine some legit competition at tryouts for those teams.

I think many people would say practices are more important than games. If getting better is your goal. So missing a AAA practice for a high school game, makes sense. Also one of your "hostages" said they played too many games, and had so many injuries, but then they want to add 20 more school games on top of that, how does that make sense?

Ok where's the plan? Or is it a concept of a plan?

You think players that have been playing against teams like SSM, BK, Jr sabres, honey baked, Culver, should go back and play against Baldwin, Westmont, Richland?

So USA hockey has schooling info for all their registered players? And they are willing to share that with PIHL?

Not sure how "easily measured" it would be anyway. USA hockey doesn't have any idea of what school their registered players goes to. And I would doubt that they would just give an entire list of registered players from Western PA over to PIHL. And even if they did, is someone at PIHL going to go thru the list of addresses, find out what school district they live in, and then confirm that the kid actually goes to that school and not a private school or cyber?? Or is it going to be up to each organization to do a survey of all the players in their schools and turn it into PIHL yearly? The competency of most of these hockey boards is questionable at best, you think they can me expected to research those kids that don't play school hockey?

You can see the formula and data used right here. https://www.pihlhockey.com/competition Much of the problem is they use this algorithm instead of common sense. Mars, larger enrollment, and historically more successful than many AAA teams, stays in A because they had a bad record 4 years ago.