Lifelongbender

This is a silly thing to say. If you have ever read anything I have ever said about referees on this site, you can't possibly think that is what I meant. Much less what I have said about the game in question. I'd venture to say that if you reread this thread you'll find that I was among the most critical of everyone involved, from the rink officials through the security officer, and including the on-ice officials. This is the response of a child who doesn't have a rational argument, especially since it doesn't reflect what I actually said. The issue I am referring to is your frankly ridiculous defense a few days ago of parents yelling at referees as "legit criticism". It's not an easy job. And remember that every call you perceive as a good call to protect the players is one that the parents on the other team are going to yell obscenities at the officials over. There's every reason to support reviewing of officials and corrective action for underperforming officials. I support that idea wholeheartedly. I have no idea how often they actually are evaluated and what actions actually result from those evaluations. But until we get ourselves under control and stop acting like children in the stands, we have only ourselves to blame for the diminishing number of available officials, or how overworked the ones who will still so the job actually are. As I said before, parents screaming at referees from the stands aren't going to get what they want from the referees. I've never once seen that work to a team's advantage. In the end what I believe is that there isn't any amount we could pay that would improve the officiating. What we need to do is improve the way that spectators, players, and coaches respond to officials.

How noble. Now, go find the additional referees somewhere, since so many are being chased out of the job by the general unpleasantness of it, mainly the "deserved criticism" from parents in the stands. Heck, I can't imagine why we'd need a third referee at all, since there are so many in the stands willing to step up by yelling over the glass.

Agreed all around that the security guy failed in his basic duty and should never be hired to work a PIHL game again. However, I have to disagree with the first sentence I left above. The vast majority of yelling at the referees that I hear is parents who have been watching their kids play for years and still don't understand what a hook or a trip is. Most of the yelling I hear comes from people who have no idea what they are talking about. Finally, even if the criticism is warranted, is yelling like a five year old having a tantrum a good idea? Let's ask the refs on this forum to weigh in on how often they change the way they're calling a game in favor of the parents whining from the stands, shall we? As a coach I can tell you I hate it when parents make fools of themselves this way. You can sometimes discuss a call from the bench with a ref and at least get a makeup call, and the better guys in the business either explain and keep going the way the have been or make adjustments if you make a good point. Screaming parents make that hard to do.

I'm really happy to hear this, but honestly I still can't imagine anyone playing there that has any other option. Recruiting will be a nightmare. They were successful and the school still killed the program.

That's right. PAHL decided to stick with 2:00 penalties for the older ages.

Especially in the immediate area of the rink! But parking and access is difficult here. You can't seriously believe that two teams worth of players are going to ride a bus to this location every hour all day Saturday and Sunday. What if they play Armstrong, or State College? Look, its a cool building and I'm really happy for new ice in the area. I just have concerns about how well it will work, I hope I am wrong on it. To that end, it's worth noting that Led Zeppelin once played a concert in this building. Surely those people had to park, too. Although they didn't have to carry equipment several blocks.

News of this has spread far and wide, I assure you. Everyone is aware of it. It will be interesting to see if more organizations implement it or something like it, and how effective it is at actually changing behaviors. It's worth also noting that reporting parents after the fact isn't the same thing as everyone having taken appropriate action at the time, but it's an interesting development. As hard as it is to find decent officials nowadays something like this is probably needed.

The neighborhood is a dense residential neighborhood with narrow streets and no open space. They have trouble parking for the businesses already in the area. Even if they were to put parking under the roof, which had been an early rumor, the local street grid probably can't support the kind of traffic two teams playing every hour or so would generate. It's not a problem they can easily address.

You're going to have a challenge getting people to give you names as long as it sounds like you're looking to try to steal a coach away from an organization.

"E-sports" are much cheaper and, outside carpal tunnel syndrome, don't cause injuries. And they have none of the traditional positive health effects, either. One can see why schools wouldn't hesitate to add them, given how glued most kids are to their consoles. But what a shame.

And she was the MVP of the first Buffalo Beauts championship in the NWHL. Hard to play at a higher level.

That looks like a fantastic event. I can't believe the OTB boys were there. Also, congrats to the guy who got to "square off" with Brett Keisel on the ice. That pic would go on my mantle forever. They look like they had a blast faking that fight.

Good.

Ahh, it would not be "double secret" if we knew about it. In fact that's about all they did receive.

Folks, both @Ref33 and @Saucey are right here, The officials on the ice, and off the ice, who were in the building explicitly have the responsibility - or at least the right - for responding to inappropriate behavior by spectators. See PIHL rule 9.2. However, this behavior was tolerated by every single person in the arena, and @Saucey has listed a number of the reasons people would likely give if asked. That's one reason there are constables at the games, and a big question is why the security personnel at this game didn't just tell those kids to shut up. I saw a constable at a JV game I recently attended do just that with student section which was much less over the line than this one. The on-ice officials should have taken action, as should the off-ice, facility officials, PIHL coordinators, and security personnel, not to mention the home coaches (it's my understanding that the Mars coaches did complain). All of those people are at fault here, and some should have their positions reviewed, in my view. Long and short, and the point that I believe @Saucey is making, is that this sort of thing won't stop until we as parents, coaches, and fans, refuse to tolerate it in our arenas (and, I'd add, our lives in general - these kids didn't learn that behavior in a vacuum). If someone stands up to a misbehaving fan, or fans, in the stands, don't turn away. We don't want fighting in our stands, but somebody has to be the adult out there. I called a guy out in the stands at a tournament a few years ago and ended up face to face with the guy, hands down, refusing to escalate, as he screamed at me until another parent from his group dragged him away. (I will admit to taking a picture of the guy as he staggered up to me so the cops would know who to arrest, and telling him that was why I took it.) It wasn't my intention to start trouble there, but to remind the guy that everyone else was trying to enjoy watching their kid play a hockey game. That was hard to do, and that kind of thing is ALWAYS hard to do, because you can't predict what will come of it. Now, I'm not normally the guy in the stands, but for my part I have spoken more than once to parents of players on my teams where the parent acted boorishly in the stands. We just don't tolerate that. We all need to do better, and expect better, of ourselves, our kids, and each other. If this incident teaches us nothing else, it should teach us that we can't rely on the folks who are supposed to react to this sort of behavior. It'll need to start with all of us refusing to tolerate it.

The next Mars game is Monday, November 8, at 8:00 PM, at Lemieux. PIHL is expecting a LARGE turnout supporting the Mars goalie, so they moved it from Baierl to Lemieux to accommodate the crowd. It would be amazing for a huge crowd to show up for this game, to support the goalie, but also to make a statement that the sort of behavior that occurred at Belmont is not accepted by the Pittsburgh area hockey community, and also that this sort of thing will not be tolerated. Several of the local 12U and 14U girls teams are planning to attend the game as a team. Good on PIHL and the rinks for making this change in support of the player.

I've known Howard for a few years, and had the honor of coaching with him for a season. He's definitely one of the good guys.

In the wake of the Kyle Beach hearings last week, and the baffling way the hearings were going on and Quenneville was still on a bench that day, and the despicable behavior at Armstrong we've been discussing in another thread, Bryce Salvador wrote an article that I think really speaks to some of the issues we are all facing as coaches and parents. https://theathletic.com/2930115/2021/11/02/bryce-salvador-on-battling-the-toxic-environment-of-youth-hockey-plus-the-impact-of-kyle-beach/ People have been suggesting that Mars should have refused to continue playing in that game. To be honest, I tend to agree with that assertion, though I'm not sure what I would have done from the bench there (except that I am positive I'd have walked over and talked to the Armstrong coach, especially given how easy it is to do so at Armstrong). This article is written about younger players, but by a former NHL captain who is now coaching youth. Whether you agree with everything in it or not, it's worth a read.

It was going to go national eventually: https://sports.yahoo.com/crowd-hurls-vulgar-sexually-explicit-chants-at-female-goalie-as-armstrong-mars-high-school-hockey-game-turns-ugly-224643179.html Hopefully this exposure gets these issues everywhere out into the open. As adults and coaches and parents we can't ever let this sort of thing go on. I can't wrap my mind around the adults in the rink, especially those who were there specifically to prevent this sort of stuff, not putting a stop to this. Just another in a long list of reasons to dislike playing at Armstrong.

Well I didn't see this photo, but if this is true, there's nothing more to say.

100% And, it should be noted, had the Armstrong coaching staff asked the security staff to do something, it's likely that they would have. That's why I blame the Armstrong coaches as much as anyone, personally. If they'd spoken up, as they SHOULD have, it probably would've been taken care of.

Worked? She made 35 saves despite the abuse. This goalie is plenty tough. This post is so off base it isn't worth talking about, but I'll say this: what we are talking about here is way beyond chanting a goalie's name. If you don't see how this is out of bounds, there's no helping you.

I cannot believe the guys from "On The Bench" are going to be there. That's just fantastic.

It's my understanding that a Constable was present at the game per the requirement - didn't someone mention that you can see him standing next to the student section somewhere above? This is an honest question because I don't know - was a PIHL official present at this game? My local school teams have had several where PIHL officials were not present. I am just wondering.

Officiating in that rink is always suspect in my experience.