RJUSHL

9 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Yes, the AHF league is a glorified PAHL level league that you will travel very far to play in and spend lots of money on hotels.  They will try to dress it up with stats and "neat" stuff to sell the kids and parents on it.  It makes no sense to drive 5+ hours and play similar PAHL competition multiple times a year.  Just my thoughts.

This is true as it currently stands, but within a year or two there will be more AHF teams in western PA than PAHL teams. At that point the few remaining PAHL teams will be the ones that have to travel. This is sad but this is the reality. We've seen this script before. Anyone who thinks it will play out any differently is wrong.

Right now there are four Western PA organizations in the AHF National Division; Allegheny, South Pittsburgh, Icemen, and Huskies. We're not at a tipping point yet but it's going to happen fast. 

4 minutes ago, JerryTime said:

11-14U AHF

15-18U THF

Is that year by year based on talent? Or is the current Icemen 09 team (14U) going after a Tier 2 championship for one year and then immediately going to Tier 1 next year?

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

In my opinion this would rely on the coach and price point.  The big negative is the travel to make all the league play.  Positive might be playing the local THF teams. Preds are already in the THF. 

Do Icemen play AHF or THF?

9 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

Will this help Esmark resurrect its teams that it lost this year and will wesee the temporary layover for some in PAHL now to end?

I'm sure there is going to be a Tier 1 program out of Printscape.

If it's going to be Esmark they better start planning right now. Still shocking they weren't able to put together a 2009 team. (On a positive note, those players are now scattered all over AA teams.) We'll see in a few months, but in general it seems like Esmark is fading. Countless examples of Preds, SHAHA, and Vengeance teams that are better than Esmark for a given age. Five years ago this was never the case.

The other option is for South Pittsburgh to start a Tier 1 program at Printscape. Their current leadership seems to be doing a nice job and have built up the program in the last few years with the rebrand.

I think the most likely option is that Black Bear starts their own Tier 1 program at Printscape with a completely separate brand from any Tier 2 programs. It's petty but that's a key. Black Bear has done this in the past and they want complete vertical integration in their rinks.

A Tier I program at Southpointe with a completely separate brand from any Tier II program would steal A LOT of kids from SHAHA and Preds. And it also adds a lot of teams to Black Bear's THF Tier I league.

12 minutes ago, YardSale said:

14U group 2 is AA Minor.  The Huskies team is mostly 2010s.  They are eligible for AA Minor due to the number of 2009s on the roster.

The Aviators submitted their 2 2010 teams as 1 and 2, the 2009 team is 3 and in group 3.

The foxes 2009 group largely left.

Makes sense. Thanks.

So Foxes 2010 in AA Minor. Foxes 2009 in the third group, which if stands will translate to the first A Major division?

9 hours ago, Hockey00 said:

Is there a good AA group of kids in Johnstown now for 14u?

I wouldn't think so, unless a lot of the Mid-State players went there because they wanted to play PAHL.

This whole format looks a lot different than previous years. Is a 14U AA Minor division happening this year like in previous years? If not, that's a huge mistake by PAHL. Really should also have a 12U AA Minor division IMO but that's been discussed to death on this forum.

Typically in preseason groupings the 14U AA Minor teams are separated out. That's not the case this year. They have 2009 Aviators and 2010 Aviators in the same grouping.

I also see no Rebellion 2010 AA team. I wonder if they are playing independent?

The Foxes 2009 team is in the second grouping. I wonder when the last time was that the Foxes didn't have a 14U AA team? Been awhile.

Also 14U 2009 Huskies in group 2 despite playing AA in AHF.

I know Rebellion will be practicing this week. If anyone is in the rink could you take a picture and post here?

Is Black Bear planning on any other improvements besides the new sheet? More locker rooms? More stands? There's a lot of unused rooms/space underneath Bubbas and underneath the gym.

On 7/29/2023 at 9:25 AM, sadday4hockey said:

Isn't this like a 60-90 day process to cure? Are the boards and benches up?

I've heard about 30 days before it can be cooled.

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

They probably should just be happy they didn't waste their time and money on a meaningless camp. 

You're entitled to your own opinion and I'm entitled to my opinion that your statement is ridiculous.

To any hockey parent out there, if your kid is nominated for the MidAm tryouts, make an effort to attend. And if your kid is selected for the MidAm dev camp and they have an interest in going, make an effort to attend that as well. Overall it's a really good experience against good competition. They'll make plenty of friends from players at the Barons, Pens, etc and even Little Caesars players that happen to live in Ohio or Reapers or Mission players that live in Indiana. And then they'll run into those players at different tournaments throughout the season. Those connections and interactions are meaningful. They'll also most likely end up playing with or against a couple kids that are going to end up at the program in a few years.

And try to shield your kid as long as possible from the poisonous negativity that so many parents lug around their entire lives.

Congrats to Brandon! Awesome seeing a local kid drafted.

What local program did he play in before PPE?

1 minute ago, nemesis8679 said:

10 at each birth year? You're being very generous. 

And it's not only about how much hockey skill someone has. It's as much about commitment, money, and what other interests/opportunities are you okay with giving up for what amounts to basically buying a lottery ticket. Unless you're a Crosby, McDavid, or another player able to blow the doors off everybody including 18-20 year-olds when you're 15. Now think about the AAA, AA, and A Major teams and how-with exceptions for the very best among them, and the teams that are truly at the top- how many of those players are interchangeable at each level and birth year. For anybody else that's a really, really good hockey player, you're not unique. There's a lot of really, really good hockey players and the competition is worldwide. Best to be realistic and prioritize having a good time. 

 

I think 10 is probably a bit generous but pretty close? So what would qualify as a path from Pittsburgh where you aren't paying ANYTHING to play?

USHL
OHL
NCAA D1
Anything else?

Even US Tier II junior leagues like NAHL you're still paying on some level. Not sure about the finances of Canadian Junior A.

12 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Lots of lessons to be learned if you pay attention.

.

13 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Regadless, sounds like nothing has changed over the years. 

Why do you say that nothing has changed over the years?

Your story happened a longggggg time ago. Not sure it's still relevant. You mention 3 PPE coaches as the only evaluators. That part has clearly changed. There were 7+ evaluators for 08s and 09s a few weekends ago. And so far no one has pointed out a single PPE coach that was there. There could've been one or two, I'm not sure. I know some of the PPE coaches in that bantam/midget age group, and none of them were there. I'm going to ask them how many PPE coaches (if any) were at tryouts a few weekends ago.

I think most of the people in this thread calling it a "sham" have been personally hurt by the process. It's not perfect, but from my experience over the past few years it's certainly a better process than many of the local Tier I and Tier II tryouts.

The negativity is just amazing. Everyone is a victim. Everyone has been screwed over by the system. I'm sure a lot of that has been passed down to the kids. What an exhausting outlook.

4 hours ago, hockey07 said:

Really odd. One 09 that goes to Lebo on Shaha had over 120 points-former pens 

Great player. He wasn't at MidAm tryouts. I only noticed one 08 or 09 SHAHA AAA kid at tryouts. The one I know was selected to advance.

For 08s and 09s, I believe tryout invites were sent only off of coach or org recommendations. I don't think any kid that a coach recommends is denied but I'm not completely sure. MidAm sends an email invite for the player to register for the tryouts.

Tryouts for 08s and 09s were the last weekend in April in Toledo. They divided up each birth year into about eight teams, and each team had four scrimmages against other teams. Games were divided into halves with a running clock. Scoresheets were kept.

08s and 09s each had about 160 kids at the tryouts. They whittle that down and 68 are invited to their player development camps. 08s in New York in July and 09s in Toledo in June. I believe both cams are held at colleges and kids are assigned a roommate, get a meal card, and have lots of on-ice and off-ice work over the course of 4-5 days. Supposedly NTDP coaches and personnel in attendance and running a few of the sessions.

14 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I wish they listed where th kids were from. 

Agree. That would be cool to see.

Ok I think I'm right on the 7+ evaluators. I only know this because I've counted. Maybe it's not true across the board but it has been for me after multiple trips.

I'm sure "gold buckets" get the nod at a higher rate than most organizations, but that's because they are generally the best players. Just like I'm sure the Barons move through the process at a higher rate than Team Ohio kids. They just have better players.

For anyone crying foul on the whole process, throw out some specific ways it could be improved. What are your ideas?

Looking at the 08 and 09 list, I do see some AA kids from Pittsburgh that were selected over Esmark AAA and Preds AAA kids. There aren't many, but they are there. Isn't that the type of thing we want to see? Having evaluators actually look at performance and potential vs the number of letters? And looking at the PPE kids on the 08 and 09 list, they absolutely deserve it.

I'm sure the process isn't absolutely perfect, but I still think it's better than any Tier I or Tier II local tryout process. I really don't get all the hate, unless it's become personal for some reason.

UPDATE: My only suggestion is to get a few evaluators from Michigan. It's close by, and there's less of a chance those evaluators will be familiar with a kid or have coached a kid in the past.

There are usually 7+ evaluators over the course of the weekend. And the evaluators don't know the kids. It's a good process.

Some good players on those lists. Definitely Pittsburgh heavy when compared with the rest of MidAm. You love to see it.

14 hours ago, ThePuckDropsHere said:

There is credibility to this “smoking gun”…

Lots of ice time fees just walked out the door from an alleged internal sabotage by the SPR president, giving Black Bear the perfect excuse to take over the SPR board if true, as they have with all the other orgs in WPA. 

Apparently none of the Rebellion 06 core went to Lebo…. They are minimally scattered between Preds/SHAHA or orphaned due to this situation. 

I re-read your statement…

Some of these allegations seem ridiculous. "Internal sabotage"... c'mom man!

If you’re going to throw some of these things out into the wind, you better be willing and able to provide some detail and context. If not, your credibility is trash. 

2 hours ago, ThePuckDropsHere said:

There is credibility to this “smoking gun”…

Lots of ice time fees just walked out the door from an alleged internal sabotage by the SPR president, giving Black Bear the perfect excuse to take over the SPR board if true, as they have with all the other orgs in WPA. 

Apparently none of the Rebellion 06 core went to Lebo…. They are minimally scattered between Preds/SHAHA or orphaned due to this situation. 

So I’m not completely familiar with the organization or this team, but I am familiar with the Rebellion President. I know him in passing. I have nothing but great things to say about him.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the player in question has NEVER played for the Rebellion. So it’s not like some coup. He has other kids that do play for South Pittsburgh. 
 

Update: I checked on this. The player in question has played for Preds AAA and Lebo AAA over the past few years. He didn’t leave South Pittsburgh. He was never there. 

13 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Adding another A division under a “AA Minor” moniker is not the solution as all you are doing is pacifying the adults and coaches for ego purposes.  Hell, its what everyone on this forum complains about all of the time with adding the extra A for those seeking placement on  “faux AAA” teams when they should be at the AA level. 

Would you propose eliminating the 14U AA Minor division from PAHL?

PAHL would solve a lot if issues if they had AA Major and AA Minor divisions at 12U, 14U (already exists), and 16U. Prevents the scenario mentioned here and also prevents peewee minor teams from going independent, which is when that nonsense starts to happen.

PAHL needs to understand that the birth year model is here to stay whether they like it or not. Adapt or become irrelevant. 

5 hours ago, No Politics said:

Question:  I didn't pay close enough attention over the years, but does anyone else have an idea how many AAA/AA programs there are now compared to five, ten, or twenty years ago?

My gut feeling is that there are a lot more, but I am not sure.

The absurdity of the Pittsburgh youth hockey market has grown in the past 20 years (just like youth sports in general) but the talent pool has also grown substantially in the past 20 years. Some good and some bad in the past 20 years.

There is a database of every players previous teams that feeds into a formula that provide a teams initial ranking. Organizations can also offer their input for out of norm circumstances. The placements are then fine-tuned with placement games, and then appeal games in some cases. In general I think PAHL does a nice job with placements.

I agree with others that these teams will almost always have a team in every AA division:

Allegheny
SCIR
North Pittsburgh
Foxes
Lebo
South Pittsburgh
*SHAHA
*Predators

*SHAHA and Preds to a lesser extent, because they sometimes try and force AAA teams upon certain age groups, which tends to dilute their PAHL teams. Their AA teams are oftentimes borderline A Major/AA type of teams.