RJUSHL

18 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Agreed.  Sometimes mom and dad are the ones that cannot face reality and cannot handle the blow to "their" ego with their star player not pursuing AAA hockey and only playing HS or at the AA level.  

Going off topic, but there were lots of top local kids drafted by NCDC teams yesterday - nice feel good moment but what will come of that if anything?  And when does reality finally set in for those "rock stars" that did not get drafted by NCDC teams or any others as a HS kid?  
I learned the hard way  

https://www.usphlncdc.com/ncdc-draft-results

https://goaliecoaches.com/understanding-junior-hockey-path-nhl/

That is nice to see. A few kids from that SHAHA 06 team taken in the first few rounds. Their top player was drafted by an NCDC last year. Do you know what came of that?

NCDC is like the NAHL in that it is not pay to play?

.

19 hours ago, RicoFata said:

I'll go with: #1 PHA, #2 Steel City, #3 North Pitt, #4 MidState, #5 Allegheny, #6 South Pitt

 

Probably very wrong, but let's hear what everyone else thinks!

PHA 09 in the wrong category here. They are Tier 1 next year. So with Esmark 09 not happening the Tier 1 09 teams may go something like this:

1. Pens
2. Vengeance
3. Preds (T1HF)
4. SHAHA
5. Icemen (T1HF)

For Tier II 09 AA this is my guess:

1. Mustangs (non PAHL)
2. *SCIR
3. *North Pitt
4. *Rebellion (PAHL & AHF)
5. *Allegheny (PAHL & AHF)
6. Preds
7. SHAHA
8. Lebo
9. Foxes

* - Those four are the top PAHL AA teams, all of them should be very close. Pick or choose the top one. Should be a clear delineation after those four.

If you did slot the Icemen in Tier II, I think they would be in the #3 spot. PHA isn't the only team picking up AAA cuts. So is North Pitt, SCIR, and Rebellion. AA teams are getting a lot better at the top next year.

I agree that it's important to have some information out there. Some people will walk into a situation expecting one thing and end up getting something completely different. Meanwhile the team they thought they were joining all scattered without them knowing. It happens all the time.

I'm most familiar with the 2013s and 2009s so I'll stick to that. And in those years I'm most familiar with teams up and down 79 and even some in the south hills.

2009s have seen more movement than any season for any birth year that I can remember. It will be helpful for parents to understand what is going on.

FOXES 09: I think their 2009 tryouts are over, but they are losing most of their top players to either North Pittsburgh or Rebellion. It's a big organization so I'm sure they filled out an 09 BY team but they will struggle. If someone is a good player that has never quite made a AA team, it may be worth inquiring with the Foxes but I would do it ASAP. This will be one of the easier 2009 AA teams to make. Don't think they've announced a supplemental but I would still inquire.

NORTH PITT 09: 2009 tryouts starting this weekend. They are picking up a lot of the Foxes players and others. I think some AAA kids trying out there as well. If you are expecting to jump in and make that AA team because you've always been AA, you may want to start thinking about another option just in case. This will be a good team.

LEBO 09: Lost 3-4 of their top players to AAA teams. This was an ok team that was top heavy before but not good depth. These losses will change the team. Like Foxes, this will be one of the easier 09 AA teams to make. They are going to have to give spots to kids who have previously never played higher than A Major. Could be a good option for someone who wants to break into a AA team but they won't be a strong team. The long time head coach is now an assistant coach. Not exactly sure of those circumstances. I'm guessing after losing a lot of their top players, they'll have more players explore other AA options this weekend.

REBELLION 09: Solid AA team last year and I haven't heard of any of their top players leaving. I haven't heard of a single person on that team wanting to leave, and I am familiar with some of them. Their strength is their coaching (Shell, Tingle, etc.) and if coaching and structure is a priority, this is the place. Just like many of the Foxes 09 players are looking north to North Pitt, many of them are looking to move to Rebellion as well. AAA cuts from SHAHA and Preds are looking here as well. This team will get a lot better but may not be as hard to make as North Pitt.

PREDS 09 AAA: Big tryout numbers with lots of Pens and Esmark kids. Longtime AAA kids didn't make the team. Most of those cuts being offered spots on their AA team, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of interest with some better teams with better coaching nearby. Kids are looking at lots of options like Rebellion and Lebo to a lesser extent. Kids that were cut from this AAA team will have a very good chance of making Rebellion or Lebo. I think both of those tryouts are this weekend. Not sure how the Preds AA will do. They were a last place team last year. Depends on if the AAA cuts stay or leave, and it seems like more are leaving. Preds 09 AAA may end up being the second best 09 Tier 1 team in the area. They should be close to Vengeance.

SHAHA 09 AAA: This team made lots of changes and improved. They took some of the Lebo AA players which is nice to see they didn't just favor existing AAA kids because they had an extra letter. Also picked up some Vengeance kids. It will be an improved team. Their AAA cuts seem to be looking at Rebellion and not staying at SHAHA.

Lots of movement already, but even more to come over the next few days and over the weekend. Parents should go into these situations aware of what is happening. But parents should also remember that one team getting weaker could mean an opportunity for their kid.

I think parents should prioritize:

1. Coaching experience
2. Location to their home
3. After those two, consider competitiveness of the team

Coaching is what keeps a team together, helps them improve, and can prevent drama (with parents and kids) even before it starts. Driving distance from your home will make a huge difference in how much your kid loves (or starts to hate) hockey.

We'll see some 09 supplementals next week. Usually those are used for filling in mixed birth year teams, but some desperate AA teams could offer them as well.

4 minutes ago, zam said:

I think the rumors of Esmark's death at the hands of Shaha and Preds has been greatly exaggerated. We can reconvene in March and find out.

You’re right about Esmark at some older ages, but if Esmark does scrape together an 09 team (and they may not) it’s going to be 90% cuts from other teams. There are going to be not just one, but multiple AA teams that are better. It’ll be a disaster waiting to happen. 

6 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

“I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.”

I’m not so sure about that as that same coach and group of players that will make up the U18 AA team played as an independent last season as a U16 AA team.  They turned their noses up at PAHL before so It would not surprise me if they did the same thing this year.

Oh I didn't know that. Hopefully the 08 and 09 continue to play PAHL and just add on an AHF partial season.

1 hour ago, zam said:

I know at times it seems like every player in the area wants to play AAA hockey. But you have about 6 programs attempting to field 09AAA teams around here so eventually you run out willing participants. (Kids, Suckers, parents with money etc)

So what is esmark supposed to do? Just keep holding tryouts until they fill the team with whoever shows up? Then you end up with a team with 3 AAA players, 3 AA players, 5 A players, and 4 deck hockey kids that are just learning to skate. Scotty Bowman and Badger Bob couldn't "coach up" a team like that!

From the talk on this board most 09s in the area ran back and forth to 2 or 3 different tryouts. They all had supplemental tryouts. If you didn't end up on a team by the time the carousel stopped then you probably shouldn't blame the organizations, seems more like a "you problem"

It's been talked about a lot this past year on this forum, but Esmark is continuing to fade. They are inexplicably losing out to SHAHA and Preds. That should never be the case. Black Bear can't be happy about this.

This time next year we are going to see a new Tier 1 program in Pittsburgh owned and controlled by Black Bear. Just like all the other obvious moves by Black Bear that people on this forum have been predicting for the past year (that have all come true), Black Bear starting a Tier 1 program is just too obvious. They are leaving too much money on the table without it. The second sheet at Printscape is setting the stage for this.

Good or bad, I don't know. But I don't see any way that this won't happen.

I think everyone knew this was coming but Allegheny Badgers joined the Atlantic Hockey Federation (Black Bear league) for next season. 

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/allegheny-badgers-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

The announcement says 18UAA, 2008 AA, and 2009 AA.

I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.

Obviously Black Bear wants to gobble up market share, but this is going to be pretty appealing for parents and kids. They get to compete for a PAHL AA championship, and they also get to compete for an AHF championship. Also have the chance to make the AHF all star game for their particular division.

Badgers AA and Rebellion AA teams are going to keep getting stronger because of this I would think.

This is all stuff people on this board have been predicting for the past few years. By next season there will be an entire AHF "west" division.

And with Tier 1 hockey and Esmark continuing to struggle and may not even field teams at all birth years, it's just a matter of time before Black Bear starts their own Tier 1 program. There's precedent for this. They've done it before. They are leaving so much money on the table with AAA registrations at Preds and SHAHA. 

I'll be shocked if Black Bear doesn't start their own brand new Tier 1 program out of Printscape (now that they have two sheets of ice). It's just too obvious.

7 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Where is this new facility? 

Attached to Alpha.

That's good about the 08 Vengeance team. 09s may fall of a bit they're still very good.

I missed this video until today. The new Vengeance facility. You're really not going to find a better setup.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cq3HQcEqtYq/

Just now, YardSale said:

Too many tryouts at the same time, I lost track of who ended when.

The wording on the website is strange. "Players returning for next season. All remaining bibs."

49 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Looks like SHAHA cut 3 and the rest made the team based on their website.  Preds, I don’t know.  Vengeance ends tonight.

The three listed bibs are those who are clearly not in the mix for their AAA team so they don't want them to take ice time and crowd the bench tonight for the final tryout when they need to get a good look at some kids.

With Preds 09 AAA and SHAHA 09 AAA improving and making changes, will be interesting to see if Esmark tries to come in and scoop up their cuts. If so it will be the definition of AA team. Getting the kids who really should be in AA anyways. The other option is for them to pack it in for a year, not field a team, and regroup with a better plan next time around.

I know Esmark advertised practicing in New Ken and Southpointe, but Esmark never even really took the time to explain how that will look. Parents rightfully have questions about that so why not be specific and detailed? And then it comes out that Esmark (across the entire organization) would just have one single ice slot per week at Printscape. So it's really just PIA & Printscape in name only and PIA for 95% of practices and games. Bad job by Esmark being specific and explaining how that would work.

I'm sure other things went into basically their entire 09 AAA team leaving.

Bottom line: Have a plan way ahead of time, be detailed about that plan, communicate that plan, and then tactfully sew up your top kids and get their feedback and thoughts about a month before tryouts. Yes it's a lot of work, but it's not complicated.

A lot of organizations are dismal communicators and I never even have an avenue/method for gathering feedback in order to improve.

Someone said it early in this thread and I think it's true: If you're not getting better you're getting worse.

Some 09 organizations/teams across AA and AAA seem to be getting better: Preds AAA, Rebellion AA, and North Pitt AA. One thing they have in common is they all had a plan and communicated that plan.

Preds 09 AAA announced their move to Black Bear's Tier 1 Hockey Federation. These kids now have a championship to play for and a league that is well structured. They announced this early.

Rebellion 09 AA announced a plan for the season over a month ago. They announced all four coaches (which is a crazy lineup of experience with specific coaches for forwards and defenseman), the fact that they are playing PAHL AA as well as Black Bears AHF league as a showcase team, and even announced what other specific tournaments they are playing like a CCM tournament. All this was announced and communicated early and that inspires confidence that they have it together and have a plan.

North Pitt 09 AA announced Cliff Loya as their coach early on in the process. That is a good get as far as a coach and I'm sure that helped them get the interest they are getting, although I'm not sure if he will travel with the team. Bottom line is they seem to have a plan.

Those three examples are a lot different from the many teams that seem to be taking a step backwards. Have a solid plan and communicate that plan early and often and you will grow/improve/win as an organization or team.

2 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Esmark may have actually folded their hand at 09.

Didn’t they have supplementals last night? Are you saying they may not have an 09 team?

1 hour ago, Hky05 said:

not sure if true or not but supposedly Dallas stars aaa 09 goalie trying out at vengeance??

So was the talk of their demise greatly exaggerated? Last week people were saying they had like four kids going to tryouts. It's funny how quickly signups happen after Pens make their roster.

10 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Whoever puts your social media together does a really good job!  Makes me want to sign up!  Thanks for the info!

Agreed. All the team plans posted on the website for each BY and AA teams have specifics about coaches, tournaments, number of practices per week, etc. Nice job Rebellion. People aren't left wondering like many of the organizations. Seems like things changed there when they ditched the rat logo. And it's nice to have a board member in this forum providing information while still avoiding a lot of the nonsense.

2 hours ago, hockey07 said:

apparently one esmark kid from renegades declined his spot 

Does seem like Esmark initially took quite a few of AA kids. I wonder if they are now second guessing the jump and may stick with their AA team? Honestly we need more of that. Teams have lot to compete for in AA; PAHL, AHF (for Badgers and Rebellion), potentially Tier II Nationals. Something to be said for that. That's way more appealing than some of these independent AAA schedules with all these two game sets against random teams in Ohio and Buffalo.

7 hours ago, bb2j3z said:

Second sheet should be open by Labor Day weekend.   Work seems like it's moving along.  There was work going on the weekend while we were doing our younger BY 2011-2014 tryouts,

They should have bleachers in the lower corner where the cage was.   That's the end closest to the entrance from the lower lobby.  I don't think they can put bleachers in the balcony area due to a capacity limit.   I would assume yes that the second sheet would be used mostly for practices and game overflows since there's more capacity in the main rink.
 

Have the Rebellion seen an increase in tryout numbers? I would think the potential for lots of ice time with a second sheet would be a good selling point.

The south hills in general had a major ice time crunch. This should help alleviate some of that.

I know SHAHA and Lebo always seem to struggle to get all their teams enough ice with just one sheet. I think last year SHAHA had some teams with just one practice per week, which they found out about after tryouts. And Lebo may still shift some practices to RMU?

How many at the Esmark supplemental?

2 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

There is not much difference between the Vengeance 09 who were ranked 40ish and SHAHA 09 who was ranked 90ish.  If you look at the rankings math it is about a goal or goal and a half difference.  That is really nothing in my mind. 

40 to 90 is about three goals expected difference according to the all-knowing MHR formula. (Sarcasm about the very flawed MHR system.) But even if it was a one goal expected difference, the bigger issue is the tournament invites you don't get when you are ranked 90 and the ones you do get when you are ranked 40. I think the Vengeance had this issue this past season. They drop in rankings and get uninvited. But a team in 90 won't even have that invite in the first place. Difference between 90 and 40 is huge in this way. I'll still be very surprised if Vengeance end up lower than Preds, SHAHA, etc.

5 minutes ago, YardSale said:

I'm still trying to figure out why Esmark didn't wait until post-vengeance/preds to have their supplemental.  But I'm sure they have their reasons. 

It makes no sense. I see a supplemental to the supplemental coming.

On 2/15/2023 at 8:19 PM, Ihearthockey said:

Second sheet officially announced at Printscape

Anyone at Printscape regularly? How's the construction going? Someone had mentioned that they are opening up the side of the building to put in bleachers. I can't even picture this.

5 minutes ago, YardSale said:

It has been discussed that the Vengeance players are scattering, where are their players coming from as you see them second in the pecking order?

I guess we'll see after this week. They'll lose a few players but enough are staying and they are so deep that I still think they'll be better than Preds and SHAHA by a fairly large margin. They should pickup some AA kids that legitimately should've been playing AAA for the past few years. I don't think they are going to fall 40 or so spots in the rankings and be where Esmark, Preds, and SHAHA were last year. Just don't see that happening.

1 hour ago, RicoFata said:

This 09 Icemen team is legit and I agree they could be National Championship contenders. Anyone know if they picked up some Esmark fallouts/other AAA talent? The core they already had was very talented and if they added anyone else I don’t see anyone stopping them at States. 

Aren't the 09 Icemen trying to be Tier 1? They are playing in Black Bears THF league next season. 

This was a year where some top AA PAHL players (that are really AAA players and have been for awhile) will make the jump to AAA. That, combined with Esmark having a hard time putting together a team means that the top players are more concentrated (Pens, Vengeance, Preds, SHAHA probably in that order) than has been the case in the past. And then most of Esmaark moving on to other AAA programs means that a lot of existing AAA kids that really would be better fits in AA will end up there. So some AA teams like North Pitt, South Pitt, and Renegades will pickup kids that got pushed out of AAA and will be much better because of it. Then other previously solid AA teams like Foxes, Lebo, Viper Stars who all will lose at least one player to AAA this year (or more) will look at other options and move laterally to AA teams like North Pitt, South Pitt, and Renegades. Just a wild game of musical chairs with a lot of good players who may end up without a seat.