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Preds birth year teams all playing independent schedule


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It appears that this year all Preds birth year teams from 08 and down (08, 09, 10, 11, and maybe 12) are playing an independent schedule and not playing in PAHL. This certainly continues to weaken AA PAHL hockey which is disappointing. Many other younger Squirt and Peewee teams are doing this as well.

Do you think this trend will continue? Birth year teams are not going anywhere. Parents want it and it's just not going to change. Organizations that have been stubborn about not having BY teams have been losing out to organizations that do. Would having AA Major and Minor divisions at the Squirt and Peewee level make a difference and keep some of the better teams in PAHL?

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8 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

One person's stubborness is another person's practicality.  The preds 12s range in skill from AA to A minor.  Same with their 10s.  Tell us again how it helps any of them to practice and play together? 

12s may be playing PAHL.

I'm not making an argument that the BY teams are good. I'm just saying they are a reality that isn't going to change. I don't want to spend my time pounding sand, grinding water, or flogging a dead horse. BY teams just aren't going anywhere.

Now how does PAHL adapt to prevent further dilution of AA hockey?

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5 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

12s may be playing PAHL.

I'm not making an argument that the BY teams are good. I'm just saying they are a reality that isn't going to change. I don't want to spend my time pounding sand, grinding water, or flogging a dead horse. BY teams just aren't going anywhere.

Now how does PAHL adapt to prevent further dilution of AA hockey?

If you have a Major AA bracket, a Minor AA bracket and then the rest of the brackets?  The problem is many of these teams end up slotting themselves at AA, playing kids majority the birthyear older, and getting hammered all year long.  Also - I'm guessing egos won't let them play PAHL even if it was restructured.  How could you call yourself AAA then? 

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2 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

If you have a Major AA bracket, a Minor AA bracket and then the rest of the brackets? 

Is the reasoning for AA Major and AA Minor divisions at the bantam level but not at the younger age groups just because of size differences?

It seems like some of the better BY teams in their minor year know they will get slaughtered by bigger kids if they play AA, and they don't want to play "A" hockey in a lower division, so then they go independent. And once that happens some of those teams never go back, even in their major year.

Preds 09 team was the opposite. They played AA last season in their minor year, got slaughtered, and then this year they decided to go independent in their major year.

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I'm not typically a pro-union person but it seems that a stronger union of associations can put a stop to this nonsense.  Say Preds 09 wants to be independent.  They want to pick and choose who they play and not have to play whatever junk teams land in their PAHL division?  Well the PAHL union could endorse their move (facetiously) and make sure that the team sees NO local games against teams rostered by PAHL orgs.

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it’s a matter of semantics I think.  It’s easier to market you’re a AA team than not.  It’s the nature of the beast the way things are set up.


General statement: There should be only one AA division imho. If you’re all a first year team at that age division and you can’t compete physically or skill then you aren’t a AA at that division, yet. There’s no shame in being A Major etc with the expectation of being AA the following year.

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12 minutes ago, BeaverFalls said:

 


General statement: There should be only one AA division imho. If you’re all a first year team at that age division and you can’t compete physically or skill then you aren’t a AA at that division, yet. There’s no shame in being A Major etc with the expectation of being AA the following year.

You are right, it is all just semantics.  What you are saying is absolutely what I think minor birthyear teams can do but if PAHL can preserve competition by calling it "AA minor" then who gives a crap?

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34 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

You are right, it is all just semantics.  What you are saying is absolutely what I think minor birthyear teams can do but if PAHL can preserve competition by calling it "AA minor" then who gives a crap?

And at this point, does it even matter anymore?  You know the "independent" teams are still going to play some of the local PAHL teams anyway.  I think people are fed up with PAHL, their FP Points and other drama.  I'm not sure what purpose PAHL has at this point.

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21 minutes ago, hockey57410 said:

And at this point, does it even matter anymore?  You know the "independent" teams are still going to play some of the local PAHL teams anyway.  I think people are fed up with PAHL, their FP Points and other drama.  I'm not sure what purpose PAHL has at this point.

Off topic but in regards to PAHL and their rules. I watched a game between two 07 PAHL teams this past weekend and saw a total of 3 body checks. Is this because teams don't want to risk getting penalties and messing up the FP points and all that BS or just because its preseason? Like, honestly I was shocked. There was AT LEAST 20 perfect opportunities for someone to lay a good hit and nobody did. 

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1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

You are right, it is all just semantics.  What you are saying is absolutely what I think minor birthyear teams can do but if PAHL can preserve competition by calling it "AA minor" then who gives a crap?

As petty as this sounds, I do think that would preserve things to some degree. Good teams in their minor year just don't want to play an "A" division.

And then when a good BY team leaves PAHL to play an independent schedule, there ends up being a snowball effect and more and more teams leave.

The Preds '09 team is a pretty good team and they are now independent. Well now the SHAHA '09 team is going to completely dominate the AA division. And once that happens it wouldn't surprise me if they end going independent because of lack of competition.

When you have two or three teams in a given birth year leave PAHL and play independent, it really changes the quality of AA PAHL hockey for everyone else.

Edited by RJUSHL
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If the teams leaving to play independent aren't AA quality to begin with, not sure that hurts PAHL AA. 

Recruiting rules aren't enforced, either. Programs become these 'powerhouse teams', AA players are siphoned out to independent teams....it all snowballs and is related.

And a handful of programs are developing all the players. Maybe if all programs developed from a young age, we would have more AA to go around, instead of fighting over the same small pool.

PAHL does offer playing for something other than a ranking. Playing independent only gets you a ranking until you are really good and can play nationals. Playoffs are fun.

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People ignore the fact that this many parents are unhappy with PAHL.  

I know people want a legit AA division but we have too many teams trying to be AA.  It might be better to have a limit of 4 AA teams and have one tryout and then take the top 60 kids and split it up evenly.

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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

The Preds '09 team is a pretty good team and they are now independent. Well now the SHAHA '09 team is going to completely dominate the AA division. And once that happens it wouldn't surprise me if they end going independent because of lack of competition.

I happen to know parents with kids on each of the '09 teams mentioned here.  SHAHA '09 actually beat the Preds '09 team last season.  Nobody can really tell me a reason for the Preds going independent, other than just to say they are independent.  SHAHA is planning on playing their PAHL schedule and then adding a full independent schedule of "high AA" and "AAA" teams to supplement the watered down PAHL level of play.  Not sure what the parents of the Preds think about the decision to pull out of PAHL, I know the SHAHA parents seem to be really happy with how they are planning on structuring their season this year.

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2 minutes ago, twoboys said:

People ignore the fact that this many parents are unhappy with PAHL.  

I know people want a legit AA division but we have too many teams trying to be AA.  It might be better to have a limit of 4 AA teams and have one tryout and then take the top 60 kids and split it up evenly.

I get where you are going, but people pick teams based on location a lot of times. That's a draft league and an entirely different scenario.

Playing the same three teams all season causes its own issues.

Make it regional....give people their travel by putting other AA MidAm teams in as part of regular season play.

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38 minutes ago, Corsi said:

I happen to know parents with kids on each of the '09 teams mentioned here.  SHAHA '09 actually beat the Preds '09 team last season.  Nobody can really tell me a reason for the Preds going independent, other than just to say they are independent.  SHAHA is planning on playing their PAHL schedule and then adding a full independent schedule of "high AA" and "AAA" teams to supplement the watered down PAHL level of play.  Not sure what the parents of the Preds think about the decision to pull out of PAHL, I know the SHAHA parents seem to be really happy with how they are planning on structuring their season this year.

I agree with this. The SHAHA 09 team is a powerhouse even more this year. If any team should've gone independent it should've been them, not the Preds 09. I think SHAHA is going to walk all over the 12U AA division this year, I just hope they don't leave PAHL for good after the season.

It is just interesting that the Preds across the board (for the most part) are pulling their BY teams out of PAHL. That's going to have consequences for lots of organizations. Not sure what those consequences will be yet.

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37 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I get where you are going, but people pick teams based on location a lot of times. That's a draft league and an entirely different scenario.

Playing the same three teams all season causes its own issues.

Make it regional....give people their travel by putting other AA MidAm teams in as part of regular season play.

And I think you need at least 8 teams to have a fun division. It gets old playing the same team over and over. If each birth year had their own PAHL AA division, I think 8 teams is possible. But that's just never going to happen if half the AA teams start going independent.

I just don't know if PAHL has any plans to address this or make improvements to keep teams.

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2 hours ago, Saucey said:

I get where you are going, but people pick teams based on location a lot of times. That's a draft league and an entirely different scenario.

Playing the same three teams all season causes its own issues.

Make it regional....give people their travel by putting other AA MidAm teams in as part of regular season play.

I would rather play the same 3 teams 12 times and have competitive games.  Than play 20 games and only have 4 that are competitive.  Most of the my friends that have kids that play AA have moved organizations at least once.  I think the way to save AA is to shrink it.  Make it a big deal to play AA.  People will drive it if the team is worth it.      

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