Jump to content

Preds birth year teams all playing independent schedule


Recommended Posts

48 minutes ago, BeaverFalls said:

Setting my watch for 2027 when these 09’s declare which ACHA program they will be playing for…

This made me spit my coffee out! Not so much because the 09’s, because the last 2-3 years I’ve seen all these social media posts, parents on Facebook etc “my kid committed to play hockey at XXX university” They have a little hockey card made up etc. club hockey is great at the M1 level, but come on with the committed bs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

49 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

This made me spit my coffee out! Not so much because the 09’s, because the last 2-3 years I’ve seen all these social media posts, parents on Facebook etc “my kid committed to play hockey at XXX university” They have a little hockey card made up etc. club hockey is great at the M1 level, but come on with the committed bs. 

There is nothing wrong with club hockey in the sense of continuing to play etc. but these people who sell their souls to the devil along with multiple mortgages on their homes need to realize they have a better chance of winning the lottery than their kid becoming the next Crosby out of Western PA. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

There is nothing wrong with club hockey in the sense of continuing to play etc. but these people who sell their souls to the devil along with multiple mortgages on their homes need to realize they have a better chance of winning the lottery than their kid becoming the next Crosby out of Western PA. 

Putting all of this in real numbers, these 09 “superstars” that haven’t even started checking yet and their parents have it rather easy from a financial standpoint.   That is, until they have to attend NC High School, enroll in Excel and pay hockey tuition that totals over $30K+ for one year.   That is close to a full year of tuition and living on campus at Penn State.

Then again, roll the clock forward and by the time these 09’s reach HS age PPE will no longer have any local kids on their teams.  “But my kid played AA Independent when he was twelve years old and he dominated.”  

Parents, start watering that money tree - pronto.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just to play devils advocate here, there are people who spend $30k or way more a year on clothes and shoes, or hobbies like hunting and fishing, or on eating out at restaurants for God's sake so what exactly is the difference if they choose to spend it on their kid playing hockey?

I guess I'm in the minority of people here who don't mind teams going independent, mainly because I have been around and involved with PAHL for over 30 years and I can totally see why people are sick of it. I also love the traveling part of playing hockey because it's what I grew up doing. My kid loves it too. I personally would rather spend my weekend driving to NY to play 2-4 games against teams you wouldn't otherwise play, do some other "sight seeing" stuff, stay in a hotel, eat at some good local restaurants, and throw back a few whiskey sours with the other dads, than drive to Westmoreland for a 9am game on a Sunday.

Then again, everyone's lives and financially situation is different so I completely understand the other point of view. I make a comfortable living to support that type of thing without the financial stress, and I am fortunate enough to have a job where I am able to get the "honey do" list done during the week. 

Yes, all roads lead to beer league. There likely isn't a single person on this board with a child who will play hockey professionally, but the argument that it's a waste of money to play at the highest level you can is a stupid one in my opinion. A busy kid is a good kid. A kid whos traveling for hockey every weekend is likely a kid who isn't getting into trouble otherwise.

That's it. Carry on.

P.s. the younger BY Preds teams all look very strong. This trend of going independent will not stop. 

*Steps off soapbox*

  • Like 1
  • Wink 1
  • 100 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, forbin said:

Just to play devils advocate here, there are people who spend $30k or way more a year on clothes and shoes, or hobbies like hunting and fishing, or on eating out at restaurants for God's sake so what exactly is the difference if they choose to spend it on their kid playing hockey?

I guess I'm in the minority of people here who don't mind teams going independent, mainly because I have been around and involved with PAHL for over 30 years and I can totally see why people are sick of it. I also love the traveling part of playing hockey because it's what I grew up doing. My kid loves it too. I personally would rather spend my weekend driving to NY to play 2-4 games against teams you wouldn't otherwise play, do some other "sight seeing" stuff, stay in a hotel, eat at some good local restaurants, and throw back a few whiskey sours with the other dads, than drive to Westmoreland for a 9am game on a Sunday.

Then again, everyone's lives and financially situation is different so I completely understand the other point of view. I make a comfortable living to support that type of thing without the financial stress, and I am fortunate enough to have a job where I am able to get the "honey do" list done during the week. 

Yes, all roads lead to beer league. There likely isn't a single person on this board with a child who will play hockey professionally, but the argument that it's a waste of money to play at the highest level you can is a stupid one in my opinion. A busy kid is a good kid. A kid whos traveling for hockey every weekend is likely a kid who isn't getting into trouble otherwise.

That's it. Carry on.

P.s. the younger BY Preds teams all look very strong. This trend of going independent will not stop. 

*Steps off soapbox*

I have no beef with parents that want to shell out that kind of money to fulfill their "kids dream."  If they want to buy into the BS fed to them that their kid needs to invest so many hours and dollars into the sure-way program for their kid to be a NHL prospect, go for it - it is their money.  

But let's not lose sight of this fact - WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 12 YEAR OLDS ON THIS THREAD.  Not one of these kids has the slightest clue as to what that next level of hockey will be at the Bantam level, whether they play for PAHL, AA Independent or AAA.  And those parents that are buying into this bullshit in thinking their kid has AAA game because some coach told them so will be the same parents that yell and scream at refs once their little Johnny is hip checked into the boards and laid out with a clean and legal hit.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's just kind of funny that it is the Predators doing this. Not exactly known for their production of players.

My kids are almost done thank goodness. I just vehemently believe that if you are taking AA players out of the local league, you are exponentially increasing the cost of hockey, which hurts the growth of the sport. And not that I know you personally, Forbin, but the whole 'I just.love to travel' reason typically rings false'. Parents who tell me this also do things that suggest they are reaching for AAA. And to do your little weekend dream, you have to have a team, and there are definitely parents and kids there being sold a bunch of malarkey so you can have a whiskey sour with dads in another city. It's disingenuous and doesn't grow the game around here.

  • 100 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think a few teams choosing to not play a PAHL schedule is necessarily hurting the growth of the game.  I'm probably going to sound like a broken record, but there's plenty of ways to do this, but teams playing games vs. out-of-town teams as opposed to PAHL wouldn't be anywhere near what I would argue could help "grow the game".  These players still live in Western PA and will probably play PIHL for their schools as they get older.  If you want to "grow the game" here's a few suggestions that would be way higher on the list than teams playing independent:

1.  Better "learn to play" Programs

2.  Find ways to make the cost more affordable

3.  Better parent education programs

4.  Coordination with other sports to allow kids to participate in multiple activities at the same time instead of forcing early specialization due to conflicting schedules.

5.  Organizations/coaches have honest conversations with parents about where their player truly is skillwise.  There's a big jump when an "A" player moves to "AA" and there's an even larger jump when a "AA" player jumps to "AAA".  Parents who are "undereducated" from a hockey perspective won't understand this and thus make decisions based only on the number of "A's"

Feel free to add to the list.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Saucey said:

It's just kind of funny that it is the Predators doing this. Not exactly known for their production of players.

My kids are almost done thank goodness. I just vehemently believe that if you are taking AA players out of the local league, you are exponentially increasing the cost of hockey, which hurts the growth of the sport. And not that I know you personally, Forbin, but the whole 'I just.love to travel' reason typically rings false'. Parents who tell me this also do things that suggest they are reaching for AAA. And to do your little weekend dream, you have to have a team, and there are definitely parents and kids there being sold a bunch of malarkey so you can have a whiskey sour with dads in another city. It's disingenuous and doesn't grow the game around here.

I have to have a team? I don't. But if I did it would be an independent team full talented players and like minded people. And I don't see a single thing wrong with that. Let's agree to disagree on this and that's fine.

Limited ice time, 3-4 teams sharing the ice for practice or only getting 20 minutes of full ice time per week, dad coaches who only focus on their own kid, uninformed parents who have never played hockey in their lives running the show, organizations having SIX squirt and peewee teams because they refuse to cut anyone are reasons why I look elsewhere. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I started this thread, but in the Preds 09 defence, if they stayed AA, they likely would only have 1 or 2 teams that would give them competitive games out of the ten teams in 12U AA.

It looks like they updated their name on MHR to now say "AAA" even though it's the same group of kids for the most part that have played AA PAHL for the past few years. As dumb as it is, adding that extra "A" may make it easier for them to schedule independent games once they made the decision to go that route.

I personally don't like it when teams go independent because it weakens PAHL AA, but at the same time, they're a good team. I'm not going to call them "faux" AAA. Looks like in PA they may be bit below the Vengeance 09 team and right there with the Esmark 09 team. Hard to know how it will all shake out.

https://myhockeyrankings.com/rank.php?y=2021&v=123&v2=124&s=PA

And I can't believe I'm giving the Preds any credit at all, but I've heard they generally have decent non-dad coaches for their BY teams. Everyone on here rightfully so preaches development and I think (not always), non-parent coaches who have played at a decently high level are better for kids in terms of development. Again, there are exceptions to this, but at least the Preds have a lot of paid non-parent coaches.

Edited by RJUSHL
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, forbin said:

 

P.s. the younger BY Preds teams all look very strong. This trend of going independent will not stop. 

Pens and Vengeance look to be the only two legit "AAA" teams on that list to me.  Esmark is simply the Pens Black team from last year that dissolved.  They are as faux as the Preds IMO.  Those pens black teams have always been the biggest joke in hockey and here we are talking about a Preds team not even as good as them?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

The biggest question is how many make Division I ACHA 

Not many. Acha M1 is very good hockey. It’s full of kids that played AAA from real programs, some nahl, ncdc and various Canadian tier 2 juniors. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Maybe when they are 22, their parents will invent travel beer league.

They already have for 21U - it’s called tier 3 junior hockey 🙂 much cheaper to play beer league! Even acha m3! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Not many. Acha M1 is very good hockey. It’s full of kids that played AAA from real programs, some nahl, ncdc and various Canadian tier 2 juniors. 

And full of kids who played PAHL, High School, and the Faux teams that you make fun of. Get off your high horse dude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, forbin said:

 

Limited ice time, 3-4 teams sharing the ice for practice or only getting 20 minutes of full ice time per week, dad coaches who only focus on their own kid, uninformed parents who have never played hockey in their lives running the show, organizations having SIX squirt and peewee teams because they refuse to cut anyone are reasons why I look elsewhere. 

 

I find it ironic that that you need to pilfer from all those 'horrible' programs to form your whiskey venture teams.

  • ROTF 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

And full of kids who played PAHL, High School, and the Faux teams that you make fun of. Get off your high horse dude.

NO PAHL AA, or Pittsburgh High School kid is even getting a chance at a top 25 ACHA D1 playing PAHL or Pgh High School, go look at Liberty roster.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

And full of kids who played PAHL, High School, and the Faux teams that you make fun of. Get off your high horse dude.

You would be speaking mainly of the 2 & 3 divisions. Go take a look at acha M1 teams such as Adrian, lindenwood, liberty etc. locally ? Sure some of the faux aaa kids get onto the local M1 teams but I think that’s only rmu, pitt & Wvu locally playing m1 ?  Rmu has a really nice team this year, especially with one of the Ncaa kids on the team. Most local acha teams are m2 & m3. WVU is awful - not a m1 team. 
 

I have never been negative towards AA hockey, not sure where you are getting that! I am a supporter of Pahl AA, it’s one of the reasons I call out the faux AAA teams. Hey look! It’s not even mid October,  at 18u -  icemen, vengeance & predators are already out of the district tournament! Mt Lebanon is still hanging in there but culver has not played yet, they will eventually enter in around the 2-3 position making Mt Lebanon fight it out with Cleveland & Indy for the final spot (6). 

Edited by Danner27
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Danner27 said:

You would be speaking mainly of the 2 & 3 divisions. Go take a look at acha M1 teams such as Adrian, lindenwood, liberty etc. locally ? Sure some of the faux aaa kids get onto the local M1 teams but I think that’s only rmu, pitt & Wvu locally playing m1 ?  Rmu has a really nice team this year, especially with one of the Ncaa kids on the team. Most local acha teams are m2 & m3. WVU is awful - not a m1 team. 
 

I have never been negative towards AA hockey, not sure where you are getting that! I am a supporter of Pahl AA, it’s one of the reasons I call out the faux AAA teams. Hey look! It’s not even mid October,  at 18u -  icemen, vengeance & predators are already out of the district tournament! Mt Lebanon is still hanging in there but culver has not played yet, they will eventually enter in around the 2-3 position making Mt Lebanon fight it out with Cleveland & Indy for the final spot (6). 

Looked at the M1 programs you referenced and it appears they have several NA3HL and USPHL Premier players on them. You have made several derogatory remarks against Juniors Tier 3 as well. Just trying to understand what is acceptable vs what is not to you.

 

Correct me if I am wrong based on your previous posts:

 

1) Pens and Esmark only AAA hockey worth it. Even if it means that you spend all that money to travel for your player to end up in ACHA.

2) ACHA M1 is okay but only if you played for top AAA youth programs or NAHL or NCDC. Not Tier 3 Juniors.

3) NCAA D3 is accessible to anyone that has the money to pay for it. Still not as good as ACHA M1 top 25 programs.

You say that you do not have an axe to grind but I think you do. 
 

My belief is that it is all acceptable and should be enjoyed by both the player and their families.

Stop hating dude !!

 

 

 

Edited by MFIS2137
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

1) Pens and Esmark only AAA hockey worth it. Even if it means that you spend all that money to travel for your player to end up in ACHA.

YES 

7 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

2) ACHA M1 is okay but only if you played for top AAA youth programs or NAHL or NCDC. Not Tier 3 Juniors.

The majority of acha m1 is really good hockey. Just like real tier 1 hockey, there is big difference though between top 25 teams. 

7 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

3) NCAA D3 is accessible to anyone that has the money to pay for it. Still not as good as ACHA M1 top 25 programs.

for the most part yes, many kids also leave ncaa d3 to play acha m1. There is a reason ncaa d3 teams don’t schedule with acha m1 very often anymore. 

7 hours ago, MFIS2137 said:

You say that you do not have an axe to grind but I think you do. 
 

My belief is that it is all acceptable and should be enjoyed by both the player and their families.

Stop hating dude !!

 

 

 

The tier 3 junior parent has showed up. 
 

buddy, my kids are done. I hang around to keep up with Pahl (my niece plays) also, maybe I can help some parent from getting suckered into the money making machine, going into massive credit card debt or re mortgaging their house because a coach sold them a line of BS. There will always be status parents (my kid is playing junior hockey in Canada! Meanwhile it’s the nojhl OR GTML - My kid plays AAA hockey! Meanwhile the team is already out of the district tourney, the team can’t even skate with ppe or midget esmark) these parents have no problem dumping cash for a dead end, that’s their prerogative.  Spend your money how you want! It’s yours! But I’ve also known parents that have been deceptively talked into the bs of tier 3 juniors & faux AAA, not knowing any better for multiple different reasons. I am here to share information & my experiences for these folks. If it saves them some money and headaches for the kid - GREAT! For 99% of the youth hockey players in North America it all ends the same. 

Edited by Danner27
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

YES 

The majority of acha m1 is really good hockey. Just like real tier 1 hockey, there is big difference though between top 25 teams. 

for the most part yes, many kids also leave ncaa d3 to play acha m1. There is a reason ncaa d3 teams don’t schedule with acha m1 very often anymore. 

The tier 3 junior parent has showed up. 
 

buddy, my kids are done. I hang around to keep up with Pahl (my niece plays) also, maybe I can help some parent from getting suckered into the money making machine, going into massive credit card debt or re mortgaging their house because a coach sold them a line of BS. There will always be status parents (my kid is playing junior hockey in Canada! Meanwhile it’s the nojhl OR GTML - My kid plays AAA hockey! Meanwhile the team is already out of the district tourney, the team can’t even skate with ppe or midget esmark) these parents have no problem dumping cash for a dead end, that’s their prerogative.  Spend your money how you want! It’s yours! But I’ve also known parents that have been deceptively talked into the bs of tier 3 juniors & faux AAA, not knowing any better for multiple different reasons. I am here to share information & my experiences for these folks. If it saves them some money and headaches for the kid - GREAT! For 99% of the youth hockey players in North America it all ends the same. 

My player is actually still not at the junior hockey age. My nephews have been through it now and I have learned some things along the way. 

Just trying to provide some perspective for those that are trying to navigate through all of this.

Most parents with players your kids age stopped posting on here a long time ago.

I guess you’re just trying to come to peace with how you spent your money.

Paths according to Danner:

Pens and Esmark for several years at a price tag of at least 15k a year including fees and travel to Minnesota 4 or 5 times a year to end up in “Top 25” ACHA M1. This is acceptable. 
 

Versus Faux AAA hockey with less travel and expense and a year or two of Tier 3 juniors (still coming in well below the above cost) also ending up in “Top 25” ACHA M1. This is not acceptable. 
 

You are also saying that Adrian’s ACHA M1 team would beat their NCAA D3 team? 
 

You also did not answer my post about Liberty and Adrian’s M1 team having several NA3 and USPHL Premier players on them. 
 

And you are correct it all ends the same but the money spent to get there or the price tag for that education is not the same for all. 
 

I agree that there are a lot good hockey players in top programs in ACHA M1. There are also a lot of good hockey players in top programs in NCAA D3. 
 

As you are sharing your wisdom try not to be so short sided. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before the name calling and pillow fights start up gain I figured I’d chime in.

Had to take a look at the rankings and it looks like this thread’s whipping boys Predators ‘09 tied #52 Belle Tire AAA and only lost by a goal to #47 Westchester Express AAA by a goal today. 
I Know that anything outside of the top 20 is not worthy and some people will find ANYTHING to pick apart a team or organization but still.. 

It also looks as if  their ‘11s are solid as well at #41. Next PAHL team on the board is SHAHA AA at #118. (Not to mention PPE black @ #96 lol).

Just throwing some actual info into the mix here

Edit… sorry N.Pitt @ #84 for the ‘11 group.


 

 


 

 

 

Edited by muckerandgrinder
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, muckerandgrinder said:

Before the name calling and pillow fights start up gain I figured I’d chime in.

Had to take a look at the rankings and it looks like this thread’s whipping boys Predators ‘09 tied #52 Belle Tire AAA and only lost by a goal to #47 Westchester Express AAA by a goal today. 
I Know that anything outside of the top 20 is not worthy and some people will find ANYTHING to pick apart a team or organization but still.. 

It also looks as if  their ‘11s are solid as well at #41. Next PAHL team on the board is SHAHA AA at #118. (Not to mention PPE black @ #96 lol).

Just throwing some actual info into the mix here

Edit… sorry N.Pitt @ #84 for the ‘11 group.


 

 


 

 

 

Honestly none of it matters much until 15U if your player is looking to try and make it in some sort of way - real junior hockey. What are 09’s now, peewee ???

  • Like 2
  • 100 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...