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Preds birth year teams all playing independent schedule


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10 minutes ago, forbin said:

What do those costs relate to? You should be able to secure ice time and refs for two games for less than $700 total. Or am I misreading this?

Depends on how much Black Bear decide to hike the ice fees 🤣😅🤣

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35 minutes ago, forbin said:

What do those costs relate to? You should be able to secure ice time and refs for two games for less than $700 total. Or am I misreading this?

If you are playing an independent game, likely playing 15 minute periods.  Will need two refs and an EMT.  I may be off a bit but it is more than you think.

I think most of the better AA teams play Silver Sticks, CCM and others.  Also, probably play in the Harbor Center tournament and a Barons one.  The local ones are the throw ins scheduled after fact. 

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Newsflash: Independent teams generally get 10-12 home game slots (depending on age group) with refs/EMT   covered in their cost from their home organization. 

For instance, if a 10U team played a 14 game PAHL regular season and 6 placements they would get 7 regular season slots and 3 placement slots. An independent team gets all 10 to schedule as they see fit. Teams generally them play reciprocal away games equaling another 10 games covered by the host team. That’s 20 games minimum. 
 Above 10U it’s a 20 game regular season + placement home slots so you get 12 home games + refs/EMT. 
I get it that going independent costs a bit more but it’s getting a bit out of hand with the sensationalism. 

 

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On 9/21/2021 at 4:44 PM, muckerandgrinder said:

Newsflash: Independent teams generally get 10-12 home game slots (depending on age group) with refs/EMT   covered in their cost from their home organization. 

For instance, if a 10U team played a 14 game PAHL regular season and 6 placements they would get 7 regular season slots and 3 placement slots. An independent team gets all 10 to schedule as they see fit. Teams generally them play reciprocal away games equaling another 10 games covered by the host team. That’s 20 games minimum. 
 Above 10U it’s a 20 game regular season + placement home slots so you get 12 home games + refs/EMT. 
I get it that going independent costs a bit more but it’s getting a bit out of hand with the sensationalism. 

 

I know this but people were talking about adding independent games on top of their PAHL schedule. 

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On 9/21/2021 at 4:42 PM, RJUSHL said:

What are the costs associated with playing four independently scheduled games in a weekend vs the cost is playing in a four-game tournament. Ignore hotel and travel costs for this comparison. 

The tournament is probably cheaper.  Ignoring hotel and travel.

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On 9/21/2021 at 9:34 AM, Saucey said:

If you are asking why Danner would leave, I second that. I appreciate your posts Danner.

While I appreciate you words. I just don’t think I have much to contribute anymore. The landscape has clearly changed. My kids are done. Watching my niece play has sort of kept me lurking (the new rule changes). 

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On 9/21/2021 at 9:51 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

It's great to have your wisdom and opinions here!  You are helping a lot of people here from your experience.  We may not always agree but what you have to say is always worth reading.  Thanks and I hope you keep adding from your experiences.

I wouldn’t call myself wise, more like experienced. I made my share of dumb decisions for my boys too!

honestly, it depresses me a little hanging around here. It Makes me realize how much I enjoyed (now miss) watching my boys play the game, excel at a much higher level than I ever could. It really makes me realize they are grown up. Until you get to this point in life, it’s hard to put into words.  
 

There are a lot of younger parents finding this place, being a new or younger hockey parent is like being a teenager again - they don’t listen & won’t listen - they know it all.  They have to learn it on their own. I was this way myself with my first son coming up. 

the best advice I can give everyone here - it goes by so fast! Just try to enjoy the the time with your kids. Don’t worry about what team your kid made, just make sure they are having fun and enjoying playing the game. Your kids more than likely, regardless how good they are will never have a chance to be a ncaa d1 player let alone a pro - regardless of how skilled they are. I once had a pro scout tell my 75% of the kids playing in the OHL have the talent to become pro hockey players at some level but they never will. Why ? I ask.  Money & connections. Unless your kid is the next top 3 pick in nhl, a generational talent -  it won’t happen. If this is your kid, he’s out of western pa by 14. Just look at how many ex pro kids are drafted or playing in the nhl now. Look right here in our backyard - that certain PPE kid who belongs on a Pahl AA team - but his dad was a politician along with being Bill Clinton’s campaign manager (now you can connect the dots why burkle brought him in to the pro org) and runs the pro team. The resources put behind that kid, working out with Crosby for years. All the special treatment, pushed through all the district camps, drafted by all the major Junior leagues, ncaa d1 commit (ivy league schools do not give our athletic scholarship). I’ve seen Pahl AA and HS players that skate better, have a much higher hockey iq and are generally just more talented. This is one of the reasons why everyone should be pulling for ty voit! As I talked about somewhere, his father went against the system! 
 

ugh now I’m going to start to get into the politics. The Inner workings of the system. Sounding jaded, Disgruntled because one of my talented kids didn’t make it. That’s far from the truth, but I’m sure it comes off that way.

Peace out ✌️

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On 9/21/2021 at 10:51 AM, Jack Handey said:

There's a few other market forces that are driving the AAA craze aside from the AAA proprietors.  These are:

Tier III junior hockey - USPHL, NA3HL, etc, where there are now hundreds of teams looking to find players to be competitive.  These teams are really businesses who are selling the dream of playing college hockey.

Junior hockey family advisors - NCSA and the like; they are salespeople who will pitch to you a path and a plan to get your kid into college hockey.  They are telling kids and their families that the only way to be looked at by scouts is to play AAA hockey at the youth level. 

 

Right on the money with tier 3 Junior hockey. It’s the new extra A. It’s like scam artists got together and said how do we keep making money off these people now that their kids are done with youth hockey ? The usphl is a joke. 

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5 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Right on the money with tier 3 Junior hockey. It’s the new extra A. It’s like scam artists got together and said how do we keep making money off these people now that their kids are done with youth hockey ? The usphl is a joke. 

Are you saying that USPHL will take anyone willing to pay?  Do you know at what age do kids age out of that league?  I guess I could try to look it up.  Bottom line it sounds like we are much better off to save our money (to pay for college) and let the kids play whatever PAHL team they can make.  But what if the kid really wants to pursue Jr Hockey?  Not the parents?  How much will it cost over 4 or 5 years.  Ballpark. Anyone with ideas of costs? Thanks

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1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Are you saying that USPHL will take anyone willing to pay?  Do you know at what age do kids age out of that league?  I guess I could try to look it up.  Bottom line it sounds like we are much better off to save our money (to pay for college) and let the kids play whatever PAHL team they can make.  But what if the kid really wants to pursue Jr Hockey?  Not the parents?  How much will it cost over 4 or 5 years.  Ballpark. Anyone with ideas of costs? Thanks

USPHL ages out at 21. Tuition is around $10k for most clubs. Some clubs cover housing in that cost, some don't. My coworkers son is on his second year with a USPHL team after playing esmark/pihl and doing online college. He's having a great time and knows it likely wont lead to anything but beer league after. 

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6 minutes ago, forbin said:

USPHL ages out at 21. Tuition is around $10k for most clubs. Some clubs cover housing in that cost, some don't. My coworkers son is on his second year with a USPHL team after playing esmark/pihl and doing online college. He's having a great time and knows it likely wont lead to anything but beer league after. 

Thanks for the info!  So he played Esmark AAA?  Is he competitive? One of the better kids on the team? Average or below?  Just curious.  Also did he go to tryouts? How did he catch on with a team?  Interesting stuff!

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4 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Thanks for the info!  So he played Esmark AAA?  Is he competitive? One of the better kids on the team? Average or below?  Just curious.  Also did he go to tryouts? How did he catch on with a team?  Interesting stuff!

Without trying to out him here, yes he played esmark U16 and varsity PIHL. He is an undersized D man. I'd say he was upper middle of the pack but a really smart player. He went to tryouts, made the team and he has some family close to the town he plays in so it worked out. His dad isn't naive to think that his kid will play past these next couple of years, but they have the coin and his kid loves to play so they are making it work.

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7 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Right on the money with tier 3 Junior hockey. It’s the new extra A. It’s like scam artists got together and said how do we keep making money off these people now that their kids are done with youth hockey ? The usphl is a joke. 

I was looking at the roster of Pittsburgh Vengeance the other day, then you can look at Elite Prospects to see where they played youth. (Vengeance's Jr team is USPHL, and they seem to do ok in their division.) You are right, there is some talent and then a lot of not so good talent filling the roster, just like the faux AAA youth teams. The roster itself is filled with the faux AAA youth leagues. My conclusion...as long as you are willing to pay, you can continue hockey after high school. Beer league is much cheaper. Lol If you are doing it to go somewhere....good luck.

I know a very few players that used this Tier III to bridge into an opportunity, but it wasn't D1 or the NHL AND it was a few years ago. I think it is even harder now. But....they were top of the heap on that Jr team/league. My conclusion...no matter what level you are playing, setting aside needing money and connections, if your kid isn't dominating  and top of the heap, forget about moving on. Chances are your kid is a scrub funding the top of the heap's dreams.

If you are going to do it, it's fine to me if you are like Forbin's friend and understand it's not going anywhere. Boy is also working on his future with the college courses.

My conclusion...school. Make your kids get the grades. And like Danner said, fun. My family hasn't chased that extra A and I don't regret it at all. My kids can end up at the same place as your kid for a lot less time and money. They've also developed just as much.

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39 minutes ago, forbin said:

Without trying to out him here, yes he played esmark U16 and varsity PIHL. He is an undersized D man. I'd say he was upper middle of the pack but a really smart player. He went to tryouts, made the team and he has some family close to the town he plays in so it worked out. His dad isn't naive to think that his kid will play past these next couple of years, but they have the coin and his kid loves to play so they are making it work.

Thanks,  great story, sounds like a well grounded kid. I am hearing more and more that you have to be willing to invest a lot of money to keep playing hockey at any level.

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7 minutes ago, Saucey said:

 

My conclusion...school. Make your kids get the grades. And like Danner said, fun. My family hasn't chased that extra A and I don't regret it at all. My kids can end up at the same place as your kid for a lot less time and money. They've also developed just as much.

I thinks you hit it on the head 100 percent!!! Thanks for the input.

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The bottom line is to remember that even a Garnett Hathaway or a Martin Jones. They're bottom-of-the-barrel NHLers, yet were so beyond their peers that they made it. And hockey, unlike football or basketball or baseball, you're literally up against the best players throughout the rest of the world for a spot. It's probably safe to say that your kid isn't making it. 

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2 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

 It's probably safe to say that your kid isn't making it. 

Does that mean you should stop them from trying?   Shouldn't I let my player pursue his dream? As long as it's his dream? I don't think I should be the one to tell him he's not good enough. He needs to figure it out on his own.  I would assume that's what happened to the kids whose parents are giving us advice on here. And maybe it never happened for kids like Sherry & Guetzel!

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45 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Does that mean you should stop them from trying?   Shouldn't I let my player pursue his dream? As long as it's his dream? I don't think I should be the one to tell him he's not good enough. He needs to figure it out on his own.  I would assume that's what happened to the kids whose parents are giving us advice on here. And maybe it never happened for kids like Sherry & Guetzel!

Absolutely not. That's what the faux AAA leagues are there for. 

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On 9/24/2021 at 6:57 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Are you saying that USPHL will take anyone willing to pay?  Do you know at what age do kids age out of that league?  I guess I could try to look it up.  Bottom line it sounds like we are much better off to save our money (to pay for college) and let the kids play whatever PAHL team they can make.  But what if the kid really wants to pursue Jr Hockey?  Not the parents?  How much will it cost over 4 or 5 years.  Ballpark. Anyone with ideas of costs? Thanks

Look at the rosters of some of the Ohio usphl teams - full of Ohio HS hockey players, kids that probably wouldn’t make a Pahl AA team in western pa.  They will pretty much take anyone. There is a local 2005 playing (more than likely sitting in the stands) for one of the Ohio usphl teams. This kid couldn’t make any of the faux aaa 16u teams - but now he’s playing “junior hockey”

( edit - talked to a buddy in Michigan tonight, Wooster only had 14 skaters at tryouts - everyone made the team so he will play. Two years ago they couldn’t field a team, last year they almost folded it. They lost their opener tonight 12–1. Looking at the roster half the team would have never made Pahl AA. Sorry for the assumption the kid would sit in the stands, that’s normally the case for under 18’s these teams normally carry up to 30 paying customers)

They carry up to 30 kids on those teams because it’s “Junior hockey” The mid west usphl teams are much cheaper than the north east. Last I can recall the vengeance were around 10k a season. The east and north east teams run around 15-20k a season. They dangle the ncdc carrot at the parents & players  (not really tier 2 juniors more like tier 2.5). The na3 also does the same trick with the nahl. 
 

go play acha if you are going to continue your education. It’s much cheaper, it’s where 99% of the kids ultimately end up in the end if they continue playing. chances are if it’s a good acha d1 program your kid will be playing with good players & against good players. There are a lot of NAHL & NCDC kids in the acha.

 I know the kid being talked about that’s playing in the usphl (elite not premier) - dad knows he’s not going anywhere. I forget what his dads screen name was here but he use to post a lot. He’s an 02, he played with my youngest one season. He’s a very bright kid, graduated HS early. there’s a decent amount of 2002-03 from western pa in the usphl right now.

Like I said, it’s the  new extra A for twice the price! 
 

I decided to take a look at the local acha teams from the bigger schools around western pa. Here is a great example. 21 year old freshman, probably wasted 40k playing in the usphl. Most kids would be in their Junior if not senior year of college at this point. https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/471676/cam-grant

 

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17 hours ago, Saucey said:

Absolutely not. That's what the faux AAA leagues are there for. 

So what AAA teams would you let your kid try out for? Only Pens Elite?  If he's not good enough to play for them just let him play PAHL?  Could be hard to get a 13 to 15 year old that has been one of the better PAHL players to understand that. Especially when he sees all the kids he grew up playing with and against playing for the so-called FAUX AAA teams.  This is all so interesting. Sure not like other High School sports.

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So what AAA teams would you let your kid try out for? Only Pens Elite?  If he's not good enough to play for them just let him play PAHL?  Could be hard to get a 13 to 15 year old that has been one of the better PAHL players to understand that. Especially when he sees all the kids he grew up playing with and against playing for the so-called FAUX AAA teams.  This is all so interesting. Sure not like other High School sports.

It is the most convoluted sport, that's for sure. 

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