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Armstrong vs Mars incident


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I was at the game. Just for perspective, this was a large student section, about 150 kids. Their chants were very loud and clear. There was a constable standing next to the student section in a black shirt labeled "constable". I found it ironic that as the student section funneled out, I noted a girl wearing a "Treat People with Kindness" shirt. This behavior is par for the course at Armstrong. 

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UNacceptable!  I would shut Armstrong down for the season.  Where were the parents or other Armstrong adults? Talk about a low level class of people. 
 

The sad part….it’s just not Armstrong County or that program, it’s the world we live in today.  Good sportsmanship barely exists anymore.  Civility in society and respect for others is also almost non-existent.  

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And I'm not laying blame, they obviously weren't chanting these things, but where was the Mars coaching staff during this? I would've demanded the refs do something, and my team wouldn't have played until this was addressed, period. Yelling parents and students acting up during the course of a game is one thing. But this is something entirely different. 

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7 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

And I'm not laying blame, they obviously weren't chanting these things, but where was the Mars coaching staff during this? I would've demanded the refs do something, and my team wouldn't have played until this was addressed, period. Yelling parents and students acting up during the course of a game is one thing. But this is something entirely different. 

The Mars coaches were going at the officials all game for a variety of reasons, including a student dressed as a ref blowing a whistle during play.  In this scenario and everything that happened documented on this thread, If you think any blame lies there, you need your head checked.

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17 minutes ago, sutton said:

The Mars coaches were going at the officials all game for a variety of reasons, including a student dressed as a ref blowing a whistle during play.  In this scenario and everything that happened documented on this thread, If you think any blame lies there, you need your head checked.

Not blaming the coaches at all. But at some point, you realize no one in "authority" at that rink was doing anything they should have taken it themselves to leave the ice. Imagine the impact that would have made.

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56 minutes ago, sutton said:

The Mars coaches were going at the officials all game for a variety of reasons, including a student dressed as a ref blowing a whistle during play.  In this scenario and everything that happened documented on this thread, If you think any blame lies there, you need your head checked.

Did you read the part where I said, "I'm NOT laying blame..." 

I was just asking how they were responding here. 

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6 hours ago, forbin said:

Yikes.

@sutton I would highly suggest you report this to PIHL immediately. 

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Jack Kukan

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Jen Pingree

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Vice President, West

Jim Black

westvp@pihlhockey.com

Vice President, North

Ryan Lamberger

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Vice President, South

Mike McKitrick

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Treasurer

Pete Gialames

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Secretary

Dawn Lecker

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Lori Hegedus

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As others have said, I can't understand how this was allowed to continue...it is the lowest of the low.  Disgusting.  If the student section at my son's high school game was acting like this, I guarantee his head coach would personally stop the game and not let it continue until it was taken care of...

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2 hours ago, sarampage said:

As others have said, I can't understand how this was allowed to continue...it is the lowest of the low.  Disgusting.  If the student section at my son's high school game was acting like this, I guarantee his head coach would personally stop the game and not let it continue until it was taken care of...

If this happened at our high school game (by our fans) and it wasn't addressed my son would never play a high school hockey game again. 

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Sutton, I don't think anyone is treating it as eh, just Armstrong. It's just that it's a behavior that has gone on there since the 80's and possibly longer. Something definitely needs done. It will be interesting to see how it is handled at a variety of levels from the Arrows Hockey program to the School District to the PIHL and MidAm. It's difficult for me to say at what level the officials are culpable, but one thing is for sure and that is that incidents like this that will continue to cause officials to stop skating games.

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52 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Sutton, I don't think anyone is treating it as eh, just Armstrong. It's just that it's a behavior that has gone on there since the 80's and possibly longer. Something definitely needs done. It will be interesting to see how it is handled at a variety of levels from the Arrows Hockey program to the School District to the PIHL and MidAm. It's difficult for me to say at what level the officials are culpable, but one thing is for sure and that is that incidents like this that will continue to cause officials to stop skating games.

They're totally culpable, they're there to be in charge. Warning, penalty, eject. This has been already gone over. They can stop the game right there. I've seen it happen over much less. C'mon. 

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2 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

They're totally culpable, they're there to be in charge. Warning, penalty, eject. This has been already gone over. They can stop the game right there. I've seen it happen over much less. C'mon. 

Is that a PIHL or MidAm policy?  In the Atlantic district, we can't issue any penalties for spectator behavior.  We eject them, stop the game until they leave, and have the team(s) identify the person.  Can does not resume until all that happens.  Then all the information is added to a supplemental game report.  It is up to the league and district to take further action.

The ICSHL has security at games here.  They handle any crowd issues.  We really don't get involved.

As for the Mars coaches pulling their team... that's a big no-no.  It is a match penalty for refusal to start play. 

Not sure what I would have done if I was working that game.  But I will say that the league and district would not let it happen again.

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1 hour ago, carroll81 said:

Is that a PIHL or MidAm policy?  In the Atlantic district, we can't issue any penalties for spectator behavior.  We eject them, stop the game until they leave, and have the team(s) identify the person.  Can does not resume until all that happens.  Then all the information is added to a supplemental game report.  It is up to the league and district to take further action.

The ICSHL has security at games here.  They handle any crowd issues.  We really don't get involved.

As for the Mars coaches pulling their team... that's a big no-no.  It is a match penalty for refusal to start play. 

Not sure what I would have done if I was working that game.  But I will say that the league and district would not let it happen again.

Imagine if that was your daughter out there? Screw that match penalty!

 

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6 hours ago, hockeydadlife said:

Imagine if that was your daughter out there? Screw that match penalty!

 

So true.  Best match penalty a team had ever taken. Should give them a banner just for having some character and it would be the most important lesson they probably have learned in their life. 

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Boorish fan behavior - especially from student groups - has been an issue off and on going back 40+ years to the days of the early days of the three separate HS leagues in Western PA (South Hills, West Penn, & Lake Shore)

1 - Isn't this the PIHL League Reps responsibility to deal with? This incident really needs to be dealt with at the school district\league level. I thought that the PIHL required security to be present at all games?

2 - If I were skating the game I would have the league rep have the security\constable speak to the offending group. I would note the time of this discussion with a brief description on the score sheet and follow up with a supplemental incident report. The two guys skating this game are very senior officials with probably 25-30 years in the stripes. I didn't hear any threats made from the stands, so at what point does it it rise to a level that intervention from the on ice officials is warranted?  It's an age old discussion if\when\and how the officials should react\address fan behavior. Over the years, the consensus is that there are no right way for an official to deal with this stuff, only wrong ways.... Their job responsibility does not extend to crowd\fan control but it has been forced upon them at some levels due to lack of rink security. 

3- IF (as an official) I were to take it upon myself to eject this group of fans (and obviously I have done this a few times over the years) I might want to consider whether I would need a police escort to leave the facility\area. This is even more of a concern now than it was even just 10 years ago. There are a few rinks that have the local police serving as security..... an ejection might just result in a disorderly conduct citation and a fine or possibly an arrest. 

4- If I were the coach, I fell that I have two options: A) take my time out to settle the team and remind them them that, contrary to current popular belief, words only hurt you if you let them.. (I know that's easier said then done when you are dealing with kids). Have the team focus on winning the game, that the fans are doing it to try to get them thinking about their insults rather than the game. Then push the issue with the to the league afterwards, possibly report it to my own AD and what they have to say. B)  confirm that I had the incident on video, request that the league rep and officials take measures to control the vulgar behavior. If it continued or they refused then I would take the Match penalty to force a league hearing on the issue.

Edited by GrumpyOldPucker
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My opinion is it is on the security person.  That is what they are paid to do.  I have seen security at the Belmont and numerous other places remove students over the years.  That is the whole point of the PAYING for  security.  In PIHL games it is usually the student section that needs watched, warned, and ejected.  Do your job.  Let the refs ref, let the coaches coach, let the security handle unruly fans.  Pretty simple or why are we even paying them to be there????

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20 hours ago, my3sons said:

President

Jack Kukan

president@pihlhockey.com

Vice President, East

Jen Pingree

eastvp@pihlhockey.com

Vice President, West

Jim Black

westvp@pihlhockey.com

Vice President, North

Ryan Lamberger

northvp@pihlhockey.com

Vice President, South

Mike McKitrick

southvp@pihlhockey.com

Treasurer

Pete Gialames

treasurer@pihlhockey.com

Secretary

Dawn Lecker

secretary@pihlhockey.com

Rules Interpreter

Lori Hegedus

rules@pihlhockey.com

 

Commissioner

John Mucha

  commissioner@pihlhockey.com

Jim black is still around ? I thought he had to step down due to conflict ? He is part owner of a rink PIHL sells ice to. He’s the epitome of corruption in youth sports - a politician taking kick backs. 
 

what happened at armstrong is fd up but the armstrong team should not be punished. Those kids are just playing the game. Blame the crap parenting and crap school district. Suspended the student section for a few games. 
 

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3 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said:

1 - Isn't this the PIHL League Reps responsibility to deal with? This incident really needs to be dealt with at the school district\league level. I thought that the PIHL required security to be present at all games?

It's my understanding that a Constable was present at the game per the requirement - didn't someone mention that you can see him standing next to the student section somewhere above?

This is an honest question because I don't know - was a PIHL official present at this game? My local school teams have had several where PIHL officials were not present. I am just wondering.

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