Tier 2 Rankings for PAHL Teams

[sadday4hockey]

On 12/9/2021 at 8:23 AM, hockeyisgreat said:

Overall I would say that is pretty impressive.  Who said Western Pa doesn't have good hockey?

The curmudgeons say that.

The nice thing is that these are all local kids. No imports like the Tier 1 teams.

[sadday4hockey]

On 12/9/2021 at 11:22 AM, Saucey said:

To me it's not that, but when was the last time that one of the Western Pa teams that went up to Nationals do well? Seems, with the exception of the girls, western Pa teams get their butts handed to them. Our market still doesn't compare on that level of competition. We are getting better. 

Our teams don't have comparable hockey IQ and our passing game looks nothing like the teams at that top level. 

Another of the ill-informed masses.

In the last 10 years of competition.

2019 - Burrell HS - Runner-up

2018 - SHAHA 14's - Champion

2016 - Armstrong 16's - Runner-up

2015 - SCIR 14's - Runner-up

2014 - Mid-State Mustang 18's - Champion

2014 - Bethel Park - Champion

2011 - Mid-State 16's - Champion

2011 - Allegheny 18's - Runner-up

 

[Saucey]

2 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Another of the ill-informed masses.

 

Nice. You could have made your point without the dig. But what would this board be with out someone being a jagoff?

[aaaahockey]

17 minutes ago, Saucey said:

Nice. You could have made your point without the dig. But what would this board be with out someone being a jagoff?

I don't disagree with the comment about tone but you did claim we don't do well when we obviously do fine. That's kinda Jagoff too especially if you don't actually know the facts. 

 

[Saucey]

14 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I don't disagree with the comment about tone but you did claim we don't do well when we obviously do fine. That's kinda Jagoff too especially if you don't actually know the facts. 

 

Here I was thinking this board was pleasantly pleasant lately. I am ok with being wrong about something and happy that my opinion was not informed in this instance. However, I am incredibly tired of the manner in which people choose to state their opinion and 'correct' others. Thanks for the somewhat backwards apology.

Edited January 22, 2022 by Saucey
Spelling typi

[sadday4hockey]

18 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Our teams don't have comparable hockey IQ and our passing game looks nothing like the teams at that top level. 

Hockey across the country has suffered a huge setback in hockey IQ due the overwhelming focus on skills, skills and more skills. Players need to be taught the basic concepts even at the youngest ages. Otherwise it's bee-hive hockey until well......... the beer league.

[hockeyisgreat]

On 1/22/2022 at 12:23 PM, sadday4hockey said:

Hockey across the country has suffered a huge setback in hockey IQ due the overwhelming focus on skills, skills and more skills. Players need to be taught the basic concepts even at the youngest ages. Otherwise it's bee-hive hockey until well......... the beer league.

Ok,so could you define bee-hive hockey for this novice? I'm guessing it's when all the players bunch up!  Thanks in advance from someone who never played the game and has not coached a team.

[fafa fohi]

58 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Ok,so could you define bee-hive hockey for this novice? I'm guessing it's when all the players bunch up!  Thanks in advance from someone who never played the game and has not coached a team.

If I may......imagine the puck being in the middle of this mess.

 

[forbin]

It's so painful to watch too. It's understandable to a certain extent at mites and lower level squirts, but I have seen this type of playing style at PeeWee Major AA as recently as last weekend. The kids with hockey IQ are really easy to separate from the pack. There absolutely has to be more of an emphasis placed on positioning and team play across the board. The problem is the younger kids get bored with those practices and the parents may think its a waste of ice time to break things down that way. 

 

[hockeyisgreat]

1 hour ago, forbin said:

It's so painful to watch too. It's understandable to a certain extent at mites and lower level squirts, but I have seen this type of playing style at PeeWee Major AA as recently as last weekend. The kids with hockey IQ are really easy to separate from the pack. There absolutely has to be more of an emphasis placed on positioning and team play across the board. The problem is the younger kids get bored with those practices and the parents may think its a waste of ice time to break things down that way. 

 

But isn't that something that could be worked on off ice?  In the parking lot in the fall and then in quick ice sessions.  One thing I don't like to see is kids standing around in a line waiting their turn for a drill. 

[forbin]

48 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

But isn't that something that could be worked on off ice?  In the parking lot in the fall and then in quick ice sessions.  One thing I don't like to see is kids standing around in a line waiting their turn for a drill. 

Yes. 100%. I've had coaches that have rented out a dek hockey rink and worked with kids on positioning and knowing where to be if certain things happen. It is extremely beneficial. That being said, you cant really replicate the speed of the scenario on ice, unless you're on ice. 

To you point about standing around. I hate it too, and I see it a lot at these "skills" practices. Group of 8 kids waiting on one to finish doing a 6 step drill.

[hockeyisgreat]

15 minutes ago, forbin said:

Yes. 100%. I've had coaches that have rented out a dek hockey rink and worked with kids on positioning and knowing where to be if certain things happen. It is extremely beneficial. That being said, you cant really replicate the speed of the scenario on ice, unless you're on ice. 

To you point about standing around. I hate it too, and I see it a lot at these "skills" practices. Group of 8 kids waiting on one to finish doing a 6 step drill.

I agree that the speed on the ice is unique. I also think it is something that really needs to be practiced in groups. Knowing where to go without the puck seems to me to be real important.

[Happy Hockey Fan]

If you want the kids to learn positioning, have them play deck hockey. Kids that have played or play deck hockey are always better at positioning. 

[Corsi]

Anytime I've coached younger kids we always used off ice to introduce systems and get the players to at least have an idea of where they should be going.  I've watched a bunch of Pee Wee AA Major hockey this season because a friend has a son that plays at that level, and I still enjoy going to the rink.  What is very noticable is what was commented on before, the lesser skilled players still allow themselves to follow their eyes to the puck, instead of understanding the idea of spacing, and how spacing can lead to chances.  Prime example last weekend in one of these games when on winger stayed wide, while there were 5 players bunched together in a scrum, puck came free, the kid picked it up, and beat the defenseman wide for a breakaway goal.  If that players doesn't recognize to stay wide and out of the scrum, there's ZERO chance that goal happens.

[hockeyisgreat]

2 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

If you want the kids to learn positioning, have them play deck hockey. Kids that have played or play deck hockey are always better at positioning. 

But I've watched some bad deck hockey as well.  I'm pretty sure positioning doesn't come naturally. Seems it's something that really needs stressed.

[carroll81]

4 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

If you want the kids to learn positioning, have them play deck hockey. Kids that have played or play deck hockey are always better at positioning. 

I'll go one step further, if you want them to learn positioning, have them play Basketball, Soccer and Lacrosse.

[Danner27]

Watched my niece this weekend. There was a Pahl 16u AA game prior. It’s like @fafa fohi stated. No break outs, just a convoluted mess around the puck no matter where the play was. it was most apparent when one team would gain control in the offensive zone. There was a few kids on each team I could tell had a decent hockey IQ - the problem the puck rarely came to these players who were playing more of a team / positioning game. Is cycling the puck down low a thing of the past for youth hockey ? It’s still a huge part of the pro game. To be honest, it was poor hockey to watch for that age. The speed wasn’t bad, the play was poor. 

[nemesis8679]

This is what the Pavel Barbers' of YouTube and tik tok have brought upon us. 

Now I'm not blasting the guy or saying the entertainment that kind of stuff gives is worthless... but in a real game of hockey, it is practically worthless. Excessive value put on individual carnival skills. Translates into over-stick handling, weaving in and out of the opposing players until the puck inevitably gets turned over, and pretty much no focus on puck support. 

On of the 14u teams my kid plays for has the most excruciatingly boring practices you'll ever see. But they're all in position during their games, and have a winning record so far largely because of it. 

Oh, and how much practice time to you ever see given to faceoffs, and who is to do what depending on what happens whether it's won or lost? How much practice time is given to utilizing the points in the offensive zone? Probably close to zero on both. Probably literally zero, actually, on the faceoffs. 

[Saucey]

It really depends on coaching and who is on the team. At 16u they are supposed to be learning all these things. 14u as well. However, they also play on teams where there are kids who don't have the individual skills to do these things, let alone hockey IQ. The independent teams have really decimated the level of play in AA. You've got only a few teams in each age group with what I would say are filled with complete AA players. Everyone else only has a couple or none. If you can't pick up a pass while moving, you can have the best breakout ever and go no where. If kids don't have the individual skills, guess what you do in practice.

[hockeyisgreat]

Is it better in High School Hockey?  What about ACHA. Who sees them play?

[fafa fohi]

8 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Is it better in High School Hockey?  What about ACHA. Who sees them play?

From what I see in the HS game, it is worse there.  More individualistic and selfish play there than what I have encountered in the PAHL system.

[Jack Handey]

1 hour ago, Saucey said:

The independent teams have really decimated the level of play in AA.

Due to low participation numbers, most competent 05s Pittsburgh kids have made the jump to Pittsburgh AAA.  @Danner27 there are probably more first year midgets (06s) in 16uAA than 05s.  Doesn't excuse sloppiness, lack of breakout, etc. but you are watching mostly younger kids.  I'd say PAHL should just make a class AAA division, but ...

[Danner27]

5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Is it better in High School Hockey?  What about ACHA. Who sees them play?

I haven’t seen much varsity this year but what I did see last year definitely was not as good as the past. The pihl to me, looks like it’s been on a steady decline year over year for sometime. That’s probably a different topic. 
 

ACHA is a mixed bag. I’ve seen very weak M1 teams.  I’ve seen M2 & M3 teams that would beat up on a good amount of our area M1. Sometimes ACHA classification doesn’t make much sense. 

[Saucey]

3 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Due to low participation numbers, most competent 05s Pittsburgh kids have made the jump to Pittsburgh AAA.  @Danner27 there are probably more first year midgets (06s) in 16uAA than 05s.  Doesn't excuse sloppiness, lack of breakout, etc. but you are watching mostly younger kids.  I'd say PAHL should just make a class AAA division, but ...

This is true. 07 by is the same.

[Lifelongbender]

5 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

From what I see in the HS game, it is worse there.  More individualistic and selfish play there than what I have encountered in the PAHL system.

I agree entirely. The varsity teams practice practically every day, and still their systems play tends to be weak, and basic positioning concepts are absent. It's really disappointing.