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Problems during the “battle of the suck”


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Listen....my kid is getting the same offers that the Icemen and the Vengeance are getting. Truly. Tier III pay to play juniors need bodies. He hasn't gone to a single showcase. We haven't paid for an extra A. Same opportunities. Dream killer? How about telling you it is completely unnecessary to play.... independent AA to do what those kids are doing. Faux AAA... They end up at the Same. Exact. Place.

I mean, nothing changes over the years. After your kids come through, there will be another crop convinced it will work for their kid.

Chase getting better in a good program. Good privates. Don't sweat it beyond that.

If your kid has something, you won't need to chase. The right people will notice and suggest some other things to do. Ones without a team roster to fill.

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3 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Do you have to go to tryouts for Tier III Juniors? How do the teams contact you and how did they find your kid?  Just curious? Thanks for any info you might share.

Some tournaments you go to, pretty sure a mailing list is created as same invites received by a lot of kids. NCSA profile that USA hockey partners with, we get all kinds of offers to spend our money there. High school exposure if your kid is good and playing for a big program, because there is press and the games are filmed/announced. If your kid has an Instagram account. Lots of ways once they reach a certain age. This is all the stuff that was 0 effort on our part.

Some are tryouts. Some have camps. Some may invite you to a skate.

Once your kid is old enough, you can reach out to coaches yourself if you want. It's like looking for a job. Except chances are, you are going to be spending money rather than getting paid.

There was a good article on My hockey rankings that talked about junior hockey this past year if you are interested. The showcases and tournaments you can try. That all adds up, as well.

The scouts for drafts and USHL/NAHL, they've earmarked kids playing top AAA or prep schools at age 14. They aren't looking at your kid playing Vengeance, Icemen, or independent AA or whatever. 

Vengeance's junior team is Tier III pay to play. Esmark feeds into a different Tier III pay to play. Different threads on this forum have talked about how many pierce high level college. (Not much at all, and not the levels I think most parents are thinking of when they start down this path.)

I think it would be a good thing for parents to educate themselves early. To play a sport in college is different than I thought, but particularly ice hockey. 

I don't see anything wrong with playing Tiger III juniors in certain circumstances, so long as you  understand that it is very expensive and it is about as likely to get you to NCAA Div I and the NHL as faux AAA. Or scholarship money. That's why the advice is to spend that money on actual college tuition. It's fairly normal for kids to take a gap year, even those not playing hockey. School is expensive. Let your kid mature a bit more. If they don't know what they want to study. But they need to take some classes, too. Basically...let them delay growing up if you want that.

And, as always, get the grades, kids.

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On 4/23/2022 at 5:04 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

Do you have to go to tryouts for Tier III Juniors? How do the teams contact you and how did they find your kid?  Just curious? Thanks for any info you might share.

Go to harmarville and you can play vengeance.  look at their roster from last year.  they have kids who never played AAA and some kids who went from not even playing travel period to being on their team.  Pay and you can play.  You may not play much and you may not be good, but you can say you play T3 Juniors!

A girl on my daughter's team has a boyfriend who was asked to join Vengeance last December.  He hadn't played travel in over a year and was only playing varsity.  They wanted him to pay full season fee.  Luckily his dad passed on the "offer"

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On 4/23/2022 at 9:25 PM, Saucey said:

I think it would be a good thing for parents to educate themselves early. To play a sport in college is different than I thought, but particularly ice hockey. 

Thank you Saucey!  I've been saying this for years, and it is the rink leadership and organizational leadership that needs to be doing this education piece with parents when the start playing, and not when the player is already 14 or 15 years old.  Tell the parents what the "hockey journey" looks like when they are 7 or 8 years old so that parents can go in with their eyes open and aware.  Also, don't sugar coat it and say that the kid is going to be getting a scholarship or getting drafted.  We all know that the odds of either of those are long, so parents and players should be aware of that.

 

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1 hour ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

I strongly recommend you go read the Death Pool columns on thejuniorhockeynews.com if you are even thinking about T3 Juniors. Great advice and warning signs to look out for.

Didn't know that The Junior Hockey News existed. Great info thanks for pointing me to the site!

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5 hours ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

I strongly recommend you go read the Death Pool columns on thejuniorhockeynews.com if you are even thinking about T3 Juniors. Great advice and warning signs to look out for.

Watch out for that guy. He was heavily invested with the usphl. 

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2 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

What does that mean?  Is USPHL Bad?

King of tier 3 & tier 2.5 (ncdc).

I just looked at the site, it’s been years but not much has changed. He’s still pawning the ncdc off like it’s the same level as the ushl or nahl. He is trashing the heck out of tier 3 junior hockey though. 

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2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

King of tier 3 & tier 2.5 (ncdc).

I just looked at the site, it’s been years but not much has changed. He’s still pawning the ncdc off like it’s the same level as the ushl or nahl. He is trashing the heck out of tier 3 junior hockey though. 

So all his stories are made up? Did programs fold or not? Did teams play games with less than 10 players? Were rosters fudged to give the appearance of being a legit team? Just because a person may or may not have it out for T3 doesn't make his info incorrect.

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3 hours ago, Danner27 said:

King of tier 3 & tier 2.5 (ncdc).

I just looked at the site, it’s been years but not much has changed. He’s still pawning the ncdc off like it’s the same level as the ushl or nahl. He is trashing the heck out of tier 3 junior hockey though. 

If you have watched him lately, he seemed to have changed his stance on the NCDC and does not seem to be a fan, this maybe because he is now part of the NAHL and they are trying to compete for the same kids. Like anything, take what is said and double check and make your own decisions. He does provide some good info, but Junior Hockey is a whole other world. 

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6 hours ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

So all his stories are made up? Did programs fold or not? Did teams play games with less than 10 players? Were rosters fudged to give the appearance of being a legit team? Just because a person may or may not have it out for T3 doesn't make his info incorrect.

I’m not saying anything is made up. A 5-6 years ago he was part owner of a usphl team. He was pumping up the usphl premier like crazy. Taking shots at the wshl & na3hl. They are all garbage leagues. Back then he was also trying to make an argument the ncdc was better than nahl. 

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6 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I’m not saying anything is made up. A 5-6 years ago he was part owner of a usphl team. He was pumping up the usphl premier like crazy. Taking shots at the wshl & na3hl. They are all garbage leagues. Back then he was also trying to make an argument the ncdc was better than nahl. 

Who is he and what is his site for the novice at this!

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Great article in My Hockey Rankings "Maybe we shouldn't be in such a Rush to Pick our Teams for next year"  I agree with it all.  The only way it would change is by USA Hockey mandate! And even then there would be a ton more spring teams making back door offers for players in the fall!

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46 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So what?  Do I just start calling Tier3 Junior teams till I find one with an opening or that is willing to take my player?  Did I see on here somewhere, somebody said most Tier 3 teams don't have full rosters.  Should I call those teams first?

I think you should get your kid an agent.

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So what?  Do I just start calling Tier3 Junior teams till I find one with an opening or that is willing to take my player?  Did I see on here somewhere, somebody said most Tier 3 teams don't have full rosters.  Should I call those teams first?

Just show up with a check, they will take your kid. We have one here in pittsburgh & another just across the Ohio line in Wooster. If you live up north, Erie has a team. 

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15 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Just show up with a check, they will take your kid. We have one here in pittsburgh & another just across the Ohio line in Wooster. If you live up north, Erie has a team. 

No matter how good or bad he is?  Is there really that big of a demand for Tier3?  

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8 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So what?  Do I just start calling Tier3 Junior teams till I find one with an opening or that is willing to take my player?  Did I see on here somewhere, somebody said most Tier 3 teams don't have full rosters.  Should I call those teams first?

Yes

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