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Allegheny Badgers 2022-23


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Anyone know anything about Allegheny's '06 and '07 independent teams for next season? Assuming these independent teams will be Tier II, will the separate 16U AA team play in PAHL but not attend States? Seems atypical for a long-time PAHL organization like Allegheny to have independent teams, but I guess it's the new trend for Pittsburgh-area organizations.

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Maybe they are joining the black bear league.  Who knows.

I'm no union guy but I'm at the point that if an AA team wants to go 100% independent, PAHL should perhaps unite a bit and isolate these jokers through some solidarity.  So you're too good for the local market and you want to cherry pick your competition?  Fine.  Have fun playing all your games in Buffalo and Detroit. 

Let's go Darcee.  Make it happen. 

There is no reason you can't play both an independent schedule with a PAHL schedule.  ESPECIALLY AT 2006 where there is a ton of local talent.

 

Edited by Jack Handey
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1 hour ago, Pucks11 said:

The 07 team has some really good kids on it but they will not go Tier 1,

Hmmm.  I remember last year when the 07s entered 14u tier II Mid-Am and they did well.  But what's up with the national bound label?  There is no 15u tournament at Tier II.  Do they really think they can win 16u Tier II next year with Renegades, NP, and Allegheny 06 in the way?

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49 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Hmmm.  I remember last year when the 07s entered 14u tier II Mid-Am and they did well.  But what's up with the national bound label?  There is no 15u tournament at Tier II.  Do they really think they can win 16u Tier II next year with Renegades, NP, and Allegheny 06 in the way?

That's a good question. 

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1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

Hmmm.  I remember last year when the 07s entered 14u tier II Mid-Am and they did well.  But what's up with the national bound label?  There is no 15u tournament at Tier II.  Do they really think they can win 16u Tier II next year with Renegades, NP, and Allegheny 06 in the way?

They likely believe that their My Hockey Ranking will place them in the top 8 PA teams and qualify for State/mid Am. Tournament. 2006 Renegades did it this year. 

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I hope they just play PAHL.  The whole independent thing is a JOKE.  I know the 2007 group well.  The 2007 Badgers, Foxes, Huskies and Preds we're all pretty competitive.  One goal games with maybe an empty net goal to make it two.  Then in the 2007 group you have the independent Icemen, SHAHA, and Vengeance who would all be  middle of the pack of PAHL 07 AA group and good competition for Badgers, Foxes, Huskies and Preds. AGAIN I BELIEVE THE 07 ICEMEN AND VENGEANCE  WOULD BE MIDDLE OF THE PACK WITH SHAHA WOULD COMPETE FOR THE TOP THREE SPOT.  All those teams would play each other competitively.  That is 7 teams!!!  Keep the next best team from the current group and loose the bottom three and it would have been a GREAT Bantam AA league.  Nope can't do that we are to good for AA so we will play independent.  SO STUPID.  Stop the madness.  Then for more and different competition play four or five high level tournaments with top AA and lower AAA teams to see how they compare.

  To many egos.  Sure a lot of those AA teams have some players that can play at the AAA level but not a team full or enough depth. The 2007 PPE obviously need to play independent and travel for the competition.  The 2007 Esmark team MAYBE.  That's it.  Other birth years are similar.  Stop the madness!!!

 

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21 minutes ago, RegDunlop7 said:

So does Allegheny think its 16U AA PAHL, '06 Independent, and '07 Independent teams will all qualify for 16U Tier II States next year? That seems unrealistic. Why not have one or two solid 16U AA team(s), play the 20-game PAHL schedule, and add 20-30 more games through tournaments? I can't imagine they have enough players to field three quality 16U AA teams, but I could be wrong.

Agree on all points. My guess is that the organization will only let the 2 “national bound” teams declare for Mid Ams. Unlikely that Mid Am will take 3 from one organization even if all 3 declared. I could be wrong too. 

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IMO, this is clearly an ego move by their coaches and organization.  As it has been suggested before, they could play the 20 game PAHL schedule and add 25-30 independent games at the AA level.  The 06's won the U16 AA regular season banner by one point ( SCIR 05's lost too many "FairPlay points but don't get me started on that silly topic ) and lost in the PAHL semis to the SCIR 06's.  It's pretty damn arrogant to think your teams are too good for PAHL, and the last time I checked it was the NP 06's that went to Nationals last year, not Allegheny.  Do they actually think they have the depth at the 06 BY to field a "national bound" Independent team AND an 06 AA team?  I guess we will find out.

At least we now have some new red meat for everyone here to gnaw on for a while.

Edited by fafa fohi
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1 hour ago, Carl Racki said:

I hope they just play PAHL.  The whole independent thing is a JOKE.  I know the 2007 group well.  The 2007 Badgers, Foxes, Huskies and Preds we're all pretty competitive.  One goal games with maybe an empty net goal to make it two.  Then in the 2007 group you have the independent Icemen, SHAHA, and Vengeance who would all be  middle of the pack of PAHL 07 AA group and good competition for Badgers, Foxes, Huskies and Preds. AGAIN I BELIEVE THE 07 ICEMEN AND VENGEANCE  WOULD BE MIDDLE OF THE PACK WITH SHAHA WOULD COMPETE FOR THE TOP THREE SPOT.  All those teams would play each other competitively.  That is 7 teams!!!  Keep the next best team from the current group and loose the bottom three and it would have been a GREAT Bantam AA league.  Nope can't do that we are to good for AA so we will play independent.  SO STUPID.  Stop the madness.  Then for more and different competition play four or five high level tournaments with top AA and lower AAA teams to see how they compare.

  To many egos.  Sure a lot of those AA teams have some players that can play at the AAA level but not a team full or enough depth. The 2007 PPE obviously need to play independent and travel for the competition.  The 2007 Esmark team MAYBE.  That's it.  Other birth years are similar.  Stop the madness!!!

 

I see both sides of it the PAHL games for the 07 badgers were not as close as you made them sound. Why would they stay in PAHL to beat up on teams by five or six goals? It doesn’t help kids by doing that. If shaha and vengeance joined PAHL then it would be a different story but until then I don’t see the point of the Badgers playing 20 games where all they will do is make bad habits.

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3 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Maybe they are joining the black bear league.  Who knows.

I'm no union guy but I'm at the point that if an AA team wants to go 100% independent, PAHL should perhaps unite a bit and isolate these jokers through some solidarity.  So you're too good for the local market and you want to cherry pick your competition?  Fine.  Have fun playing all your games in Buffalo and Detroit. 

Let's go Darcee.  Make it happen. 

There is no reason you can't play both an independent schedule with a PAHL schedule.  ESPECIALLY AT 2006 where there is a ton of local talent.

 

I agree that if your potential competition in PAHL is solid, you should not go independent. It’s just plain crazy.

And when I say “solid” I mean that at least 4 teams in your age group make a good match. If it’s only 1 or 2 then a sizable drop off, you spend 3/4 of your season winning lopsided games. And that is not good for anybody.

The problem with sanctions or “boxing them out” at any birth year is that you set a precedent for other teams in age groups that might not have as strong of competition in their BY or mixed age group. I think that teams in those instances that branch out to go independent are doing themselves and everyone else a favor.

It changes with each year/group but yes… I do agree that teams who go independent just for the ego or simply to “keep up with the joneses” are nuts.

Its a copycat world though. Especially in youth hockey.

As always, I’m seeing both sides. 

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Same with the BY thing as well. Some organizations go that route when they do not have a strong group at that birth year. It’s perplexing.

The other side of that is most of the challenging tournaments have BY divisions.
Mixed BY tournament divisions have always been hit or miss. And these days if people are forking over $ for hotels, travel, fees they want more of a known quantity.

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5 hours ago, Murray Chadwick said:

They likely believe that their My Hockey Ranking will place them in the top 8 PA teams and qualify for State/mid Am. Tournament. 2006 Renegades did it this year. 

your right!!! and no knock on them BUT The 05 BY IS Very weak and watered down as well.

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5 hours ago, HockeyDad101 said:

I see both sides of it the PAHL games for the 07 badgers were not as close as you made them sound. Why would they stay in PAHL to beat up on teams by five or six goals? It doesn’t help kids by doing that. If shaha and vengeance joined PAHL then it would be a different story but until then I don’t see the point of the Badgers playing 20 games where all they will do is make bad habits.

Five or six goals.  Here are there games from the Allegheny scores from the PAHL site.  Foxes 5-5, Huskies 4-1, Foxes 1-4, Huskies 3-1, North Pitt 5-5, Foxes 3-2, Preds in semi 3-1, Foxes in Championship 2-1.  That's eight really close games.

 

  PAY ATTENTION:. Yes, the Badgers, Foxes, SHAHA, Huskies , and Preds will all pretty much beat up on the bottom 3-4 teams.  If you bring the WANNA BE AAA independent teams into PAHL (SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance all ranked below Allegheny and some below several of the PAHL teams) and get rid of the bottom three teams it would be very good competition for all of them!!!! 8 of the Badgers PAHL games where either ties, a lose, or within three goals.  Even the two or three goal games I don't know how many involved an empty net.  Certainly wouldn't say they would be above playing in that group.  

  Again, a lot of those teams may have some AAA players but not a whole roster or the depth.  No need to play independent.  But hey, go independent and tell all your friends about your AAA team.  Hell, play really high ranked teams and just hang on for dear life.  Stay higher in the ranking and talk about how much better you are because of your ranking.  Plus add lots of stupid unnecessary travel!!!  

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Just now, Carl Racki said:

Five or six goals.  Here are there games from the Allegheny scores from the PAHL site.  Foxes 5-5, Huskies 4-1, Foxes 1-4, Huskies 3-1, North Pitt 5-5, Foxes 3-2, Preds in semi 3-1, Foxes in Championship 2-1.  That's eight really close games.

 

  PAY ATTENTION:. Yes, the Badgers, Foxes, SHAHA, Huskies , and Preds will all pretty much beat up on the bottom 3-4 teams.  If you bring the WANNA BE AAA independent teams into PAHL (SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance all ranked below Allegheny and some below several of the PAHL teams) and get rid of the bottom three teams it would be very good competition for all of them!!!! 8 of the Badgers PAHL games where either ties, a lose, or within three goals.  Even the two or three goal games I don't know how many involved an empty net.  Certainly wouldn't say they would be above playing in that group.  

  Again, a lot of those teams may have some AAA players but not a whole roster or the depth.  No need to play independent.  But hey, go independent and tell all your friends about your AAA team.  Hell, play really high ranked teams and just hang on for dear life.  Stay higher in the ranking and talk about how much better you are because of your ranking.  Plus add lots of stupid unnecessary travel!!!  

I guess the 2007 Foxes, Huskies, and Preds should go independent with Allegheny.  Then we will have the  07 SHAHA, Allegheny, Vengeance, Foxes, Icemen , Huskies , and Preds all independent.  They can travel all over the country and never play each other because obviously they are all to good to play in a league together and are now AAA.  Makes sense.  That's the Pittsburgh hockey way!

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2 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Five or six goals.  Here are there games from the Allegheny scores from the PAHL site.  Foxes 5-5, Huskies 4-1, Foxes 1-4, Huskies 3-1, North Pitt 5-5, Foxes 3-2, Preds in semi 3-1, Foxes in Championship 2-1.  That's eight really close games.

 

  PAY ATTENTION:. Yes, the Badgers, Foxes, SHAHA, Huskies , and Preds will all pretty much beat up on the bottom 3-4 teams.  If you bring the WANNA BE AAA independent teams into PAHL (SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance all ranked below Allegheny and some below several of the PAHL teams) and get rid of the bottom three teams it would be very good competition for all of them!!!! 8 of the Badgers PAHL games where either ties, a lose, or within three goals.  Even the two or three goal games I don't know how many involved an empty net.  Certainly wouldn't say they would be above playing in that group.  

  Again, a lot of those teams may have some AAA players but not a whole roster or the depth.  No need to play independent.  But hey, go independent and tell all your friends about your AAA team.  Hell, play really high ranked teams and just hang on for dear life.  Stay higher in the ranking and talk about how much better you are because of your ranking.  Plus add lots of stupid unnecessary travel!!!  

The 07 Badgers team has went 41-1-2 the last two years in PAHL and won the regular season and playoffs both seasons. Funny you only bring up their loss,  two ties, and the handful of close games they have played to prove your point. They were 17-1-2 and outscored their opponents 117-35 this season, so most of the games they played were not competitive. I doubt the other PAHL teams will be sad to see them leave. The other issue is because of the weight put on the MHR's for the Mid Am tournament to qualify for nationals these teams have to beat the lower teams by 6-7 goals or they lose points in the rankings. Nothing good comes from those blowout games for either team.

I do agree with you whole heartedly that if SHAHA, Icemen, Vengeance, Badgers, Foxes, Huskies, and Preds all played PAHL then there would be great competition locally for those teams but unfortunately SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance already went AAA or independent AA.  I think some of the teams do not think it is worth their time to play 4-6 competitive games out of a 20 game schedule.

If you look at the 06 age group it is more of the same. The only two true 06 teams in 16U AA this year were the Renegades and Badgers. Those two teams are very competitive with one another. SHAHA, Vengeance, and Preds all have AAA teams. SHAHA is ranked 42nd, Vengeance is 55th, and the Preds are 99th. The Preds MHR is lower than the Badgers and Renegades. If those 5 teams played PAHL and add in Icemen and North Pitt you have a great division there as well. 

Fake AAA has ruined the PAHL AA Divisions. If Pittsburgh did it the way Detroit and Chicago does it and would limit the amount of AAA organizations then PAHL would be a powerhouse league. If there were only two AAA organizations (Pens Elite and Esmark) then the rest of the teams would be stupid not to play PAHL. At this point the better teams have no incentive to play in PAHL in fact it hurts them. This needs to be fixed but Mid Am has no interest in stepping in and putting a stop to any of this nonsense. 

Edited by Hattrick Swayze
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29 minutes ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

The 07 Badgers team has went 41-1-2 the last two years in PAHL and won the regular season and playoffs both seasons. Funny you only bring up their loss and two ties and the handful of close games they have played to prove your point. They were 17-1-2 and outscored their opponents 117-35 this season, so most of the games they played were not competitive. I doubt the other PAHL teams will be sad to see them leave. The other issue is because of the weight put on the MHR's for the Mid Am tournament to qualify for nationals these teams have to beat the lower teams by 6-7 goals or they lose points in the rankings. Nothing good comes from those blowout games for either team.

I do agree with you whole heartedly that if SHAHA, Icemen, Vengeance, Badgers, Foxes, Huskies, and Preds all played PAHL then there would be great competition locally for those teams but unfortunately SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance already went AAA or independent AA.  I think some of the teams do not think it is worth their time to play 4-6 competitive games out of a 20 game schedule.

If you look at the 06 age group it is more of the same. The only two true 06 teams in 16U AA this year were the Renegades and Badgers. Those two teams are very competitive with one another. SHAHA, Vengeance, and Preds all have AAA teams. SHAHA is ranked 42nd, Vengeance is 55th, and the Preds are 99th. The Preds MHR is lower than the Badgers and Renegades. If those 5 teams played PAHL and add in Icemen and North Pitt you have a great division there as well. 

Fake AAA has ruined the PAHL AA Divisions. If Pittsburgh did it the way Detroit and Chicago does it and would limit the amount of AAA organizations then PAHL would be a powerhouse league. If there were only two AAA organizations (Pens Elite and Esmark) then the rest of the teams would be stupid not to play PAHL. At this point the better teams have no incentive to play in PAHL in fact it hurts them. This needs to be fixed but Mid Am has no interest in stepping in and putting a stop to any of this nonsense. 

Thinking PAHL could be a powerhouse league is a bold statement. Maybe ask why those teams are leaving? PAHL has so many issues, it's a surprise its still around. You have 3 different types of Org that make up PAHL. Your Renagades, Alegheny, North Pitt and others that have 15 plus teams, then your Mid size like Beaver Yetis and your small like Wheeling, Huskies etc. All get the same vote. Go ask each what they think, they all complain about loosing player to bigger orgs, then the big one complain about loosing to AAA or independent.. Over the last 10 years 12u AA, 14u AA and 16u AA usally have 4 competive teams, the other 6 suck. What is the real benifit of staying in PAHL to play 2/3 of your games against crap. They can still get local games against the 3 or 4 simular teams and then find other simular games. My Hockey raning makes this easy and possible to search out simular teams. The higher you go and older you get the less likley of finding good competition. PPE does not play many teams in the area, maybe 1 or 2 depending on the area, They want to play team that are ranked in the top 25 in tier 1, Vengance, shaha, esmark depending on BY are ranked 30-60 and play teams close to them, they can play each other and work together to bring teams in. Then you get into your top tier 2 teams, typicall 4-5 local ones that can play each other and also work to bring teams in. This is like this in most cities. Problem is Darcy and PAHL will not change. This was brought up years ago about creating an expanded league, but was met with resistance from the mid to smaller orgs. The pens tried with the east west classic. But some couldn't handle the hockey ladder and allowing players to progress up and try to control everything. Well surprise, the market has adjusted and no we have independent teams. Guess what, pahl is in for a wake up call as Black Bear brings in another option. It happened at ADM, Why do you think PPE, RMU and NP have inhouse program and do a better job developping kids then the other do, not to mention the money to be made. You want to see PAHL become the powerhouse league, get rid of the director and stop making decision that are best for you and your kid and what is best for hockey and development. Have you ever talked to the kids or parents on those independent teams, ever here them say they miss PAHL or it was a mistake leaving. The only ones saying it suck are the ones that got left behind. It is the same parent that says bring back the AAA kids to PAHL AA, what they don't relize is if that was the case, their AA kid is now an A major or A Minor player. It's all a pryamid, the lower you go, the more people there are and the more that bitch.

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7 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

I guess the 2007 Foxes, Huskies, and Preds should go independent with Allegheny.  Then we will have the  07 SHAHA, Allegheny, Vengeance, Foxes, Icemen , Huskies , and Preds all independent.  They can travel all over the country and never play each other because obviously they are all to good to play in a league together and are now AAA.  Makes sense.  That's the Pittsburgh hockey way!

show us on the doll where the badgers hurt you

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6 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

If there were only two AAA organizations (Pens Elite and Esmark) then the rest of the teams would be stupid not to play PAHL. At this point the better teams have no incentive to play in PAHL in fact it hurts them. This needs to be fixed but Mid Am has no interest in stepping in and putting a stop to any of this nonsense. 

I agree with most of your post, but you mention Pens and Esmark as the only legit AAA organizations in an ideal world. I think it would be better to also have a legit tier 1 AAA organization in the south hills. I think there is more hockey talent in the south hills in places like USC, Lebo, Bethel, Peters, etc. than there is in the north hills and all the top kids have to travel to Cranberry or New Ken.

Also I know a lot of people call the Vengeance "faux AAA" but at the younger years, they have more talent than the Esmark teams. Vengeance teams are better than Esmark for 2009, 2010, and 2008 birth years. And Vengeance will continue to have better teams because they are putting together 10U BY teams that collect all the kids that don't quite make the Pens. Not sure if that's good or bad.

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10 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

your right!!! and no knock on them BUT The 05 BY IS Very weak and watered down as well.

As is the 2007 BY. All the more reason it sucks to have teams leave PAHL. And....Blackbeard is going to change the landscape entirely, I think. Now all the faux AAA teams can play in a league.

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6 minutes ago, Saucey said:

As is the 2007 BY. All the more reason it sucks to have teams leave PAHL. And....Blackbeard is going to change the landscape entirely, I think. Now all the faux AAA teams can play in a league.

The question is, when is Black Bear going to add a southwest PA team to this list? https://www.blackbearsportsgroup.com/teams.html

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