Allegheny Badgers 2022-23

[Carl Racki]

6 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

The 07 Badgers team has went 41-1-2 the last two years in PAHL and won the regular season and playoffs both seasons. Funny you only bring up their loss,  two ties, and the handful of close games they have played to prove your point. They were 17-1-2 and outscored their opponents 117-35 this season, so most of the games they played were not competitive. I doubt the other PAHL teams will be sad to see them leave. The other issue is because of the weight put on the MHR's for the Mid Am tournament to qualify for nationals these teams have to beat the lower teams by 6-7 goals or they lose points in the rankings. Nothing good comes from those blowout games for either team.

I do agree with you whole heartedly that if SHAHA, Icemen, Vengeance, Badgers, Foxes, Huskies, and Preds all played PAHL then there would be great competition locally for those teams but unfortunately SHAHA, Icemen, and Vengeance already went AAA or independent AA.  I think some of the teams do not think it is worth their time to play 4-6 competitive games out of a 20 game schedule.

If you look at the 06 age group it is more of the same. The only two true 06 teams in 16U AA this year were the Renegades and Badgers. Those two teams are very competitive with one another. SHAHA, Vengeance, and Preds all have AAA teams. SHAHA is ranked 42nd, Vengeance is 55th, and the Preds are 99th. The Preds MHR is lower than the Badgers and Renegades. If those 5 teams played PAHL and add in Icemen and North Pitt you have a great division there as well. 

Fake AAA has ruined the PAHL AA Divisions. If Pittsburgh did it the way Detroit and Chicago does it and would limit the amount of AAA organizations then PAHL would be a powerhouse league. If there were only two AAA organizations (Pens Elite and Esmark) then the rest of the teams would be stupid not to play PAHL. At this point the better teams have no incentive to play in PAHL in fact it hurts them. This needs to be fixed but Mid Am has no interest in stepping in and putting a stop to any of this nonsense. 

I don't care what they did two years ago or in mite.  The topic was about the Badgers  moving independent next year.

  I think it is dumb to have a pile of independent teams that travel all over the country and don't play each other.  Again go off of the 7 of the 20 games they played that I listed.  I think the may have played South point Close on a game or two as well.   Close good competition.  No one cares about the blow out numbers the playing against the bottom three or four teams.  They would be gone.  You have 7 teams that could all compete closely in 07 PAHL AA.  Again it would be SHAHA, Badgers, Foxes, Vengeance, Icemen, Huskies, Preds and then yes the last one would struggle.

  I guess the Foxes and Allegheny should definitely go independent also and then we will have 5 independent AA teams and two AAA teams in western Pa.  Wait I mean 7 AAA teams in western Pa.  

[RegDunlop7]

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Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[Jack Handey]

15 hours ago, HockeyDad101 said:

the 07 badgers were not as close as you made them sound. Why would they stay in PAHL to beat up on teams by five or six goals?

Because the way PAHL and USAH are structured, next year they could play all the PAHL 06 talent in 16uAA.  Do you really expect to win every game in 16uAA next year by 5-6?

[hockeydadlife]

1 hour ago, Carl Racki said:

I don't care what they did two years ago or in mite.  The topic was about the Badgers  moving independent next year.

  I think it is dumb to have a pile of independent teams that travel all over the country and don't play each other.  Again go off of the 7 of the 20 games they played that I listed.  I think the may have played South point Close on a game or two as well.   Close good competition.  No one cares about the blow out numbers the playing against the bottom three or four teams.  They would be gone.  You have 7 teams that could all compete closely in 07 PAHL AA.  Again it would be SHAHA, Badgers, Foxes, Vengeance, Icemen, Huskies, Preds and then yes the last one would struggle.

  I guess the Foxes and Allegheny should definitely go independent also and then we will have 5 independent AA teams and two AAA teams in western Pa.  Wait I mean 7 AAA teams in western Pa.  

We can all sit in front of our computers and post what the divisions and groupings should be, but it hasn’t and wont happen in PAHL. so why rehash it every season at every age? Unless you’re in the parent/coaches meetings or organization meetings where these things are determined what does it matter? Why no mention of shaha going independent and being ranked below that badger team still. I guess they get a free pass? 

Edited March 2, 2022 by hockeydadlife

[Jack Handey]

8 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

The 07 Badgers team has went 41-1-2 the last two years in PAHL

Congratulations.  You're the best team in a weak birth year.  Why not join 16uAA next year and play the 06s if you need a challenge?

[Jack Handey]

8 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

Fake AAA has ruined the PAHL AA Divisions. If Pittsburgh did it the way Detroit and Chicago does it and would limit the amount of AAA organizations then PAHL would be a powerhouse league.

I'm too lazy to find it on the mid-am site but I think mid-am has the same 15% model that Detroit does.  Meaning a max of 15% of players in an age class can be rostered on Tier I teams.

[hockeydadlife]

6 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Congratulations.  You're the best team in a weak birth year.  Why not join 16uAA next year and play the 06s if you need a challenge?

Why not go independent and play the top 20 07 teams in the country like they have been? Sounds like a choice for them not for us.

[Jack Handey]

5 minutes ago, hockeydadlife said:

Why not go independent and play the top 20 07 teams in the country like they have been?

Because you can get the same or better hockey development while playing most of your games within an hour of your home.  Common sense.

[hockeydadlife]

7 minutes ago, Jack Handey said:

Because you can get the same or better hockey development while playing most of your games within an hour of your home.  Common sense.

they do have dad coaches there, maybe you should go save the program from ruin? 

[Ynot02]

35 minutes ago, RegDunlop7 said:

It's been rehashed many times in this thread and on this forum, but PAHL would be very competitive if the independent AAA and AA teams didn't leave. Maybe PAHL could/should find a way to incentivize teams/organizations to stay? I don't have any concrete solutions, but I'm sure we can collectively think of some haha.

I completely agree. So the question is why are these teams leaving? If it truly is because of playing teams in the AA bracket that don’t belong there and it’s a waste of time, PAHL needs to stop allowing teams that don’t belong in AA in that division. However I think it’s too late to fix it now. I think the trend toward larger AA divisions started about 6-7 years ago, and here we are. I remember when there were very small AA divisions - only 4-6 teams. But then you started to see 10-13 teams. AA is supposed to be for the TOP talent, but PAHL allowed it to become something else. That AA designation used to be an elite class and an accomplishment. It hasn’t been that way in years, especially at the younger age divisions. 

[Carl Racki]

17 minutes ago, Ynot02 said:

I completely agree. So the question is why are these teams leaving? If it truly is because of playing teams in the AA bracket that don’t belong there and it’s a waste of time, PAHL needs to stop allowing teams that don’t belong in AA in that division. However I think it’s too late to fix it now. I think the trend toward larger AA divisions started about 6-7 years ago, and here we are. I remember when there were very small AA divisions - only 4-6 teams. But then you started to see 10-13 teams. AA is supposed to be for the TOP talent, but PAHL allowed it to become something else. That AA designation used to be an elite class and an accomplishment. It hasn’t been that way in years, especially at the younger age divisions. 

The problem is the parents.  Some want to brag about their kid on his AAA team. Others just don't know any better and  think it is AAA team  as that is what the coaches or organization try to sell them on.   They think it is a higher level.  Again, these teams may even have some AAA players but not enough for a team.  It is ego driven.  PAHL takes the remaining best 8 teams.  When you have 7 independent teams the remaining teams in that  PAHL AA division will be crap.  They are actually an A major black division.

  Look at the 2010 Aviators as an example.  I believe a lot of them played on the North Pitt AA squirt team last year.  A few people on that team told me how they dominated PAHL and we're a AAA team.  I thought wow that's pretty good let me check MHR.  I believe they finished 3rd in that PAHL division and did not win the championship in squirt AA.  This year they are the 2010 Aviators and went independent.  They played peewee AA and got beat up.  I also believe SHAHA and the Preds are already independent at the 2010 BY.  Same ridiculous trend different birth year.  

I have tried to explain it over the years to people/parents with young players.  Usually I am just wasting my breath.  I have already beat this to death.  Sorry

[RegDunlop7]

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Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[HSFBLJ]

The question is, when is Black Bear going to add a southwest PA team to this list? https://www.blackbearsportsgroup.com/teams.html

I thought a team was coming this fall?

[Carl Racki]

21 minutes ago, HSFBLJ said:

The question is, when is Black Bear going to add a southwest PA team to this list? https://www.blackbearsportsgroup.com/teams.html

I thought a team was coming this fall?

I am hoping never. It just means more travel for no reason to play similar teams from further away.  Costs players a lot more and for what???

[hockeyisgreat]

Black bear started the THF Tier 1 for next year with the Esmark Stars in it.

https://centericearena.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=3f069c7f3272fea1aaeae9722&id=e2288ab4b1&e=73dcc33db0

Only a matter of time till they start on Tier 2.

 

[Jack Handey]

1 hour ago, hockeydadlife said:

maybe you should go save the program from ruin

can't fix stupid with all the hockey dad egos in the way.  

[sadday4hockey]

Viewing those two links above, neither the Tier 1 group and especially the Tier 2 group strike fear into any top 25 programs. That Tier1 thing makes some sense for all those east coast teams but it would appear to add a lot of travel for Esmark? Did they leave the NAPHL and the trips to Minnesota and Texas?

[HSFBLJ]

I think this could be a good thing for local hockey.  Right now PPE and Esmark are really the only option.  We have lot's of teams playing independent schedules which is hit or miss by BY.  If BB can put together a pipeline similar to that of PPE more local kids from the area can get exposure.  The world today exists outside of PAHL, if you play PAHL your entire career and never leave the local market your not going anywhere.  Like it or not travel and the cost of travel hockey is necessary if you plan on playing anything more than club hockey.

[forbin]

18 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Viewing those two links above, neither the Tier 1 group and especially the Tier 2 group strike fear into any top 25 programs. That Tier1 thing makes some sense for all those east coast teams but it would appear to add a lot of travel for Esmark? Did they leave the NAPHL and the trips to Minnesota and Texas?

Someone mentioned in another thread that black bear likely told Esmark they had to join their league or they could find a new rink to play out of.

[Ihearthockey]

1 hour ago, Carl Racki said:

The problem is the parents.  Some want to brag about their kid on his AAA team. Others just don't know any better and  think it is AAA team  as that is what the coaches or organization try to sell them on.   They think it is a higher level.  Again, these teams may even have some AAA players but not enough for a team.  It is ego driven.  PAHL takes the remaining best 8 teams.  When you have 7 independent teams the remaining teams in that  PAHL AA division will be crap.  They are actually an A major black division.

  Look at the 2010 Aviators as an example.  I believe a lot of them played on the North Pitt AA squirt team last year.  A few people on that team told me how they dominated PAHL and we're a AAA team.  I thought wow that's pretty good let me check MHR.  I believe they finished 3rd in that PAHL division and did not win the championship in squirt AA.  This year they are the 2010 Aviators and went independent.  They played peewee AA and got beat up.  I also believe SHAHA and the Preds are already independent at the 2010 BY.  Same ridiculous trend different birth year.  

I have tried to explain it over the years to people/parents with young players.  Usually I am just wasting my breath.  I have already beat this to death.  Sorry

Wasn't the Aviators team created to keep the team together?  Meaning, if NP would have committed to keeping those BY10s together, would they still be at NP playing in PAHL?  Or am I being naive?

What would be the recommendation for a team that truly wants to stay together (as much as possible) but the organization just doesn't believe in BY teams?

[Jack Handey]

3 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Look at the 2010 Aviators as an example.

That's a problem too but it's a different unicorn.  In the south hills, when you don't get your way, you just switch to another org and hop from/to SHAHA, Preds, Mt Lebo.  But in the north, when you don't get your way, you take your stick and puck and form your own team in the wild wild west.  

Edited March 2, 2022 by Jack Handey

[sadday4hockey]

37 minutes ago, HSFBLJ said:

The world today exists outside of PAHL, if you play PAHL your entire career and never leave the local market your not going anywhere.  Like it or not travel and the cost of travel hockey is necessary if you plan on playing anything more than club hockey.

So the world today exists only for 2% of the players currently playing? Because that's probably the percentage that will ACTUALLY play more than club hockey.

[Lifelongbender]

1 hour ago, Jack Handey said:

That's a problem too too but it's a different unicorn.  In the south hills, when you don't get your way, you just switch to another org and hop from/to SHAHA, Preds, Mt Lebo.  But in the north, when you don't get your way, you take your stick and puck and form your own team in the wild wild west.  

It's tragic how true this post is.

[Carl Racki]

2 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

I think this could be a good thing for local hockey.  Right now PPE and Esmark are really the only option.  We have lot's of teams playing independent schedules which is hit or miss by BY.  If BB can put together a pipeline similar to that of PPE more local kids from the area can get exposure.  The world today exists outside of PAHL, if you play PAHL your entire career and never leave the local market your not going anywhere.  Like it or not travel and the cost of travel hockey is necessary if you plan on playing anything more than club hockey.

Believe me all of those PAHL and independent teams I mentioned will not be getting ANY meaningful exposure for kids to go anywhere no matter what league they play in.   They all travel a lot now.  Pretty much every AA PAHL team travels 4-6 times a year. Once you go independent it is more.  No one is out scouting teams ranked 70+.  Believe me.  Thinking a Tier 2 (AA) hockey team is getting scouted is laughable no matter what the league is.  It is another money grab.  Maybe play to play places scout those but even doubt that.  They usually try to get the bottom half of the higher level AAA teams.  

[Carl Racki]

1 hour ago, Ihearthockey said:

Wasn't the Aviators team created to keep the team together?  Meaning, if NP would have committed to keeping those BY10s together, would they still be at NP playing in PAHL?  Or am I being naive?

What would be the recommendation for a team that truly wants to stay together (as much as possible) but the organization just doesn't believe in BY teams?

No the 2010 Aviators may have been partially been created for that reason.  I just know a couple people on that team made the comment about being AAA team last year,  to good for AA,  and needing to go independent.  The Aviators should have played A pee wee major black like most of the other 2010 BY teams. They are young and learning I guess.

  The 2007 Huskies exist for that reason.  Great people that wanted to stay together but Butler Valley wouldn't let them do a BY team so they went to Huskies and it has worked out well for them.