Allegheny Badgers 2022-23

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Carl Racki said:

The 2007 Huskies exist for that reason.  Great people that wanted to stay together but Butler Valley wouldn't let them do a BY team so they went to Huskies and it has worked out well for them.

BV/Icemen has an 07 birth year, and they are advertising AAA for next season, are they not?

[mrfreeze]

2 hours ago, Ihearthockey said:

Wasn't the Aviators team created to keep the team together?  Meaning, if NP would have committed to keeping those BY10s together, would they still be at NP playing in PAHL?  Or am I being naive?

What would be the recommendation for a team that truly wants to stay together (as much as possible) but the organization just doesn't believe in BY teams?

The statement of "creating a birth year team to keep kids together" is not reality. Take any BY team over the last 10 years and the turn over from formation to end is usally 50% per year. At 07 the huskies and shaha probably have the largest core of players, but that will change as they hit the midget high school years. If you argue birth year team are good for development, i would also disagree. Kids need adversity and the top kids of the minor BY would be better suited playing up and the lower kids would be better suited playing with kids closer to their own skill level where they can compete and be contributers. The talent level top to bottom on BY teams is greater than on your typical mix teams. Ask yourself if you have been on one or any teams, how they pick off the kids at the bottom and how they cost the team. Same is with the kids at the top, they wan to be at the next level up. Mix this over years and parents and players end up tearing each other up. I think 3 years is the max any group can really stay together when not factoring in skill. I still say, do whats best for your family and kids, no need to trash anyone or team you move on from and ignore the haters if you are lucky enough and work hard enough to climb the ladder to a higher team. Trust me around tryout time, people that bashed you for leaving for a higher team, even if it was a faux aaa team will be asking you, about getting their kids on these teams.

[forbin]

11 minutes ago, 27adams said:

BV/Icemen has an 07 birth year, and they are advertising AAA for next season, are they not?

Yes the are. And an 06 NB team.

[mrfreeze]

3 hours ago, HSFBLJ said:

I think this could be a good thing for local hockey.  Right now PPE and Esmark are really the only option.  We have lot's of teams playing independent schedules which is hit or miss by BY.  If BB can put together a pipeline similar to that of PPE more local kids from the area can get exposure.  The world today exists outside of PAHL, if you play PAHL your entire career and never leave the local market your not going anywhere.  Like it or not travel and the cost of travel hockey is necessary if you plan on playing anything more than club hockey.

Is Esmark really an option? They have no u15 team right now, what are they going to do at u16 team next year. Lot of people say esmark develops it players when in reality they only worry about 16 and 18. The last 20 years all they do is go around and take PPE cuts and pick off other teams. The current 07 esmark team is 80% vengeance players that left cause they did not get what they wanted. It really came down to 2 players. Yurri is now trying to poach all the vengeance u16 team and telling everyone he is getting kids from Cleveland and all over. Lets see what happens. Now the Vengance have some good young teams, but after being together long enough, those teams will blow up by the time they get to bantam/midget. Then you have SHAHA and Pred who have had some success. It's the same thing every year just change the names and teams. So how many tryouts will your kid be in this tryout season. I'll be here with the popcorn watching the heards go from one tryout to another and saying I did not want to play for x team or coach anyway or how they should not play for the faux AAA team and should just play with my PAHL AA that also got cut from those other teams.

[twoboys]

24 minutes ago, 27adams said:

BV/Icemen has an 07 birth year, and they are advertising AAA for next season, are they not?

Huskies left BV after squirts and before Peewee.  BV didn't want a birth year so they left.  They have never wanted to play independent.  BV didn't let them have a birth year team although they let 04? have a birth year team.  If I remember correctly. 

[Guest]

I think we are asking the wrong questions\ making the wrong statements about 07 Allegheny.  Arent they the model of success and consistency?  They had the BY model for 4 years now.  1st yr was a learning experience.  2nd year was considerably better.  3rd they went undefeated in PAHL and a got close to a national bid in MidAms.  This year another championship and MidAms on the horizon.  Same model and coach.  85% of the same kids.  Sure some left, but some came back too.  Maybe, just maybe, they are on to something there.  Just an opinion.

I have no horse in the race here, btw. Just observing/eating popcorn.

Edited March 2, 2022 by 27adams

[Carl Racki]

7 minutes ago, 27adams said:

I think we are asking the wrong questions\ making the wrong statements about 07 Allegheny.  Arent they the model of success and consistency?  They had the BY model for 4 years now.  1st yr was a learning experience.  2nd year was considerably better.  3rd they went undefeated in PAHL and a got close to a national bid in MidAms.  This year another championship and MidAms on the horizon.  Same model and coach.  85% of the same kids.  Sure some left, but some came back too.  Maybe, just maybe, they are on to something there.  Just an opinion.

I have no horse in the race here, btw. Just observing/eating popcorn.

No, they are a great team and have done a really good job.  They haven't gone independent so far and yet more successful the all the other independent teams.  I don't think anyone on here is saying they aren't a great team.  I just think it is silly to keep adding teams to the independent ranks. So far I think they have done it the right way.  This thread was about them needing to go independent.  Definitely a great team.

[RegDunlop7]

;

Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[Guest]

 

 Here's the thing, if that's what the team wants, to be able to play top teams across the country  and they're more than willing to travel it shouldn't matter.

And it is a shame that local top teams won't play each other.  

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, RegDunlop7 said:

I have no problem with organizations fielding BY teams at the AA level, but why does Allegheny need/want to have three separate 16U AA teams? I'm assuming the third 16U AA team (not the '06 or '07 teams) will compete in PAHL/some tournaments but not attend States. What's the purpose of this third team then? I feel like the 16U AA talent is being diluted at that point.

Maybe, but, what if talent isnt diluted and the interest in the AHA model has garnered enough player interest to be able to field those teams? Maybe Joe Skater from the Vengeance, for example, sees what AHA has to offer and feels like he has a better shot there instead being buried in 4th line minutes on his current team, and can go for a national championship at the same time.  

[PUCKCOVID19]

1 hour ago, mrfreeze said:

Is Esmark really an option? They have no u15 team right now, what are they going to do at u16 team next year. Lot of people say esmark develops it players when in reality they only worry about 16 and 18. The last 20 years all they do is go around and take PPE cuts and pick off other teams. The current 07 esmark team is 80% vengeance players that left cause they did not get what they wanted. It really came down to 2 players. Yurri is now trying to poach all the vengeance u16 team and telling everyone he is getting kids from Cleveland and all over. Lets see what happens. Now the Vengance have some good young teams, but after being together long enough, those teams will blow up by the time they get to bantam/midget. Then you have SHAHA and Pred who have had some success. It's the same thing every year just change the names and teams. So how many tryouts will your kid be in this tryout season. I'll be here with the popcorn watching the heards go from one tryout to another and saying I did not want to play for x team or coach anyway or how they should not play for the faux AAA team and should just play with my PAHL AA that also got cut from those other teams.

never was. what they don't tell parents is they have to have certain number of tenders, tenders mean really nothing. 90 percent of those tenders do not make the nahl team anyways. 

the ONLY real AAA option is Pens Elite and thats the truth. most dont wanna believe it though. the NAPHL is a weak Aaa league for the most part..l the beast and teir 1 elite league are 2 pretty darn good leagues 

[RegDunlop7]

;

Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[aaaahockey]

7 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

I also believe SHAHA and the Preds are already independent at the 2010 BY.  Same ridiculous trend different birth year.  

South Pittsburgh and Preds. Preds top teams are independent completely except their squirt minor teams. 

 

Also agree that this is all so silly. 

[Corsi]

On 3/2/2022 at 2:50 AM, mrfreeze said:

Over the last 10 years 12u AA, 14u AA and 16u AA usally have 4 competive teams, the other 6 suck. What is the real benifit of staying in PAHL to play 2/3 of your games against crap. They can still get local games against the 3 or 4 simular teams and then find other simular games.

Thank you Mr. Freeze for stating it this way.  That is the problem that PAHL runs into and the reason you have teams going independent.  Playing a PAHL AA schedule is similar to going to a tournament with 2 strong teams in a division and 4 weak teams, you still HAVE to play games vs. the weak teams.  As a parent of a player that has since aged out, I used to HATE traveling to Buffalo, or Detroit and having to be at a rink at 7AM to play a game that ends up 10-0 with a running clock.  Very similar things happen every weekend in PAHL at the AA level when one of the "powerhouse" teams has to face one of the lower level teams.  These are also the games that often end up featuring high penalty minute totals and parents acting like idiots out of frustration.  I get the reasoning behind playing an independent schedule if you are one of the strongest PAHL teams in a given BY with little or no competition within the division.

[RegDunlop7]

;

Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[hockeyisgreat]

Not to mention NP which has one of the strongest 06 teams!

[BeaverFalls]

If you have enough kids to field a BY team then have at it. The problem comes from when programs who don’t have nearly enough kids try to force it. And it rarely ever seems to work when that happens. 

[Carl Racki]

1 hour ago, RegDunlop7 said:

If the Tier II independent teams stayed in PAHL, the AA divisions would be much stronger. Using the '06 and '07 BYs as an example, SHAHA and the Icemen already have '06/'07 independent teams and Allegheny plans to have '06/'07 independent teams next year. The 16U AA PAHL division would be pretty solid with those six teams plus the Arctic Foxes, Huskies, Predators, and SCIR.

AMEN, READ MY FIRST POSTS ON THIS THREAD AND YOU WILL SEE.  LOOK AT THE 07MID AM tier 2 AA SCORES THIS WEEKEND AND YOU WILL SEE AT LEAST 6-7 COMPETITIVE TEAMS AND IF THEY ALL PLAYED PAHL YOU WOULD HAVE A GREAT LEAGUE!!  NOPE WE HAVE TO TRAVEL ALL OVER THE COUNTRY TO PLAY SIMILAR TEAMS AND TELL EVERYONE WE ARE BETTER THAN PAHL AA OR WE ARE AAA.  The 2007 AAA Vengeance unfortunately registered as AAA or they could have played in the Mid Am tier 2 AA this weekend and you would see they are middle of the pack of the AA group. Check the rankings. Maybe slightly higher.  I said I wouldn't answer this again.  Sorry

[Pa Hockey]

Kool Aid at the AA Level ? Wow 

[stickboy]

Where is MidAm to help stop this Tier 2 Independent nonsense?!  Real simple, make Tier 2 independent teams not eligible for Districts and Nationals. If you want to be on your own island, then stay there.  If you want to be NB, then play in the league your affliate is part of to qualify!  Or better yet, grow some balls, go AAA and find the better competition you are looking for. Quit trying to make a special place for you to fit in and feel good!

[sadday4hockey]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Not to mention NP which has one of the strongest 06 teams!

Pretty sure they are 05/06 this year. That's why some bolted for the vaunted Icemen I thought.

[mrfreeze]

3 hours ago, stickboy said:

Where is MidAm to help stop this Tier 2 Independent nonsense?!  Real simple, make Tier 2 independent teams not eligible for Districts and Nationals. If you want to be on your own island, then stay there.  If you want to be NB, then play in the league your affliate is part of to qualify!  Or better yet, grow some balls, go AAA and find the better competition you are looking for. Quit trying to make a special place for you to fit in and feel good!

Why not just eliminat tier 2 all together? Make it all one group. So then the teams that are ranked in the 100's and higher stop bitching about how they are relivent. If the Vengenance 07 teams was allowed to play tier 2 or esmarks or any faux aaa team and won it, everyone here would be outraged saying they are a tier 1 team and don't belong. How many of you played on a spring league team and a team has a couple AAA players and people are mad. Everyone wants to control the party and you can only play if your kids are not better than mine. Also the comment about why do we have to drive and fly all over the country to play the same talent? Are you on one of these teams that play faux AAA, why are you bitching, you signed up, if your not on one of these teams, then why do you care. To be honest tier 2 makes no sense, it just a line drawn, some teams that are aaa  are below the line, some are above the line, but they are far from the top. When I was choosing where my kids could play, i looked at more than just aa or aaa. Coaching, ice time, number of games, cost, how the kids got along, how the families got along, development, travel and other factors. Taking all this into account we made informed choise on where to tryout and what routes to take. Some worked out great, some we didn't make. Everyone needs to do what they think is best. Traveling is not a bad thing, kids get a better sense of the world, some are mini get aways, does it cost money, yep. But I get to choose how I spend my money. Do you see or hear of anyone on these traveling, independent teams saying look at those pahl teams, they stay home and save so much money and are so smart. wished I was them and didn't get to spend a couple extend weekends with my family and friend making memories that will remeber forever. Go sit in your house and turn the heat down and lights off to save money and don't come out in the world, please disconnect your internet and stop bitching about what is best for others, worry about yourself.

[aaaahockey]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:44 PM, PUCKCOVID19 said:

 

the ONLY real AAA option is Pens Elite and thats the truth. most dont wanna believe it though.

It shows by the number of NCAA division 1 recruits they have produced

[Carl Racki]

4 hours ago, mrfreeze said:

Why not just eliminat tier 2 all together? Make it all one group. So then the teams that are ranked in the 100's and higher stop bitching about how they are relivent. If the Vengenance 07 teams was allowed to play tier 2 or esmarks or any faux aaa team and won it, everyone here would be outraged saying they are a tier 1 team and don't belong. How many of you played on a spring league team and a team has a couple AAA players and people are mad. Everyone wants to control the party and you can only play if your kids are not better than mine. Also the comment about why do we have to drive and fly all over the country to play the same talent? Are you on one of these teams that play faux AAA, why are you bitching, you signed up, if your not on one of these teams, then why do you care. To be honest tier 2 makes no sense, it just a line drawn, some teams that are aaa  are below the line, some are above the line, but they are far from the top. When I was choosing where my kids could play, i looked at more than just aa or aaa. Coaching, ice time, number of games, cost, how the kids got along, how the families got along, development, travel and other factors. Taking all this into account we made informed choise on where to tryout and what routes to take. Some worked out great, some we didn't make. Everyone needs to do what they think is best. Traveling is not a bad thing, kids get a better sense of the world, some are mini get aways, does it cost money, yep. But I get to choose how I spend my money. Do you see or hear of anyone on these traveling, independent teams saying look at those pahl teams, they stay home and save so much money and are so smart. wished I was them and didn't get to spend a couple extend weekends with my family and friend making memories that will remeber forever. Go sit in your house and turn the heat down and lights off to save money and don't come out in the world, please disconnect your internet and stop bitching about what is best for others, worry about yourself.

I care because all the wanna be AAA teams or the independent teams are now forcing everyone else to leave and travel all over the country because when 6 or 7 of the top AA teams go independent then we no longer have a competitive AA PAHL league. Not to hard to figure out but organization/ people still do it to draw players and tell parents they are AAA.  Wow not hard to understand.

[Hattrick Swayze]

49 minutes ago, Carl Racki said:

I care because all the wanna be AAA teams or the independent teams are now forcing everyone else to leave and travel all over the country because when 6 or 7 of the top AA teams go independent then we no longer have a competitive AA PAHL league. Not to hard to figure out but organization/ people still do it to draw players and tell parents they are AAA.  Wow not hard to understand.

You are 100% correct but unfortunately so many teams have pulled out of PAHL that the good teams that are left have to make a tough decision. Play in a league that does not create a lot of competition and hurts their ranking, unless they blow teams out every game or go independent and try to push for Nationals. If all of the teams listed in this thread would play PAHL it would be null and void. Unfortunately at this point there is nobody in the area that is going to fix this. I am sure that the families and coaches of these teams for the most part would rather play 20 games locally that were competitive rather than travel all over the country and spend more money.

I would love to see this thread provide solutions to this issue rather than everyone complaining about the teams that have left PAHL because the other competitive teams in the area are already gone. I am a huge believer that if we only had 2 AAA organizations in the Pittsburgh region and every other team played in PAHL that none of these teams would feel the need to leave. Maybe that is is a pipe dream and the days of playing locally in a competitive league are long gone but it would be great to see a local league provide a competitive alternative to these teams feeling like they have to leave to compete nationally.

PAHL and Mid Am are stuck in the past and if they don't change the way they do things then you are going to continue to see more teams leave and look for more. Right or wrong it is the mindset of the hockey families/teams/organizations.

You can blame organizations but all of this is being driven by the parents who think if their kid isn't playing AAA then they won't be seen and will not have a chance at playing at a higher level. What these families do not understand is 99% of these kids will not play a higher level than Club hockey in College. My advice is to enjoy the ride while it lasts and let your kids play at  a level that is good for their development and confidence as a player and a person.