AAA Tryout Log Jam

[Whoosh]

17 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

This was most of the sentence. My reading comprehension tells me that you are specifically referencing the Pittsburgh contingent to which I say as do all of the historical data show that no way all of those players are USHL or NAHL level. The over/under on the number of those players that ever play regularly in either of those leagues is one and a half.

Ok, fair enough. I would take the over as there are now 8 or 9. Time will tell I guess. For the record I didn't say they will play,  I said prospects. Some prospects don't make the cut. I guess "potential prospect" would have been a little better phrasing 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Whoosh

[RJUSHL]

2 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Iwestern pa -

PPE>Esmark>everyone else from FAUX to AA. 

At the younger birth years (2009 and lower), Vengeance is fielding better teams than Esmark. I don't see that changing anytime soon. You may want to slide Esmark to your "faux" category.

[Danner27]

14 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

At the younger birth years (2009 and lower), Vengeance is fielding better teams than Esmark. I don't see that changing anytime soon. You may want to slide Esmark to your "faux" category.

Nah because 15 & 16 is when it matters. Nobody cares about PW. When the vengeance, predators or icemen start making the district tournament at 15,16 & 18 then I’ll take them serious. You only have to be in the top 6 for a district that has anywhere from 8-12 teams to make the tourney. These clubs sit at the very bottom every year at just about every age group. They are nice AA teams. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Danner27

[RJUSHL]

7 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Nah because 15 & 16 is when it matters. Nobody cares about PW. When the vengeance, predators or icemen start making the district tournament at 15,16 & 18 then I’ll take them serious. You only have to be in the top 6 for a district that has anywhere from 8-12 teams to make the tourney. These clubs sit at the very bottom every year at just about every age group. They are nice AA teams. 

09 is bantam this year I believe, not PW. But you're right, it doesn't matter until 15 or 16, but I do think the Vengeance have a head start with the younger birth years. We'll see if that carries over. I think it will.

[fafa fohi]

17 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Nah because 15 & 16 is when it matters. Nobody cares about PW. When the vengeance, predators or icemen start making the district tournament at 15,16 & 18 then I’ll take them serious. You only have to be in the top 6 for a district that has anywhere from 8-12 teams to make the tourney. These clubs sit at the very bottom every year at just about every age group. They are nice AA teams. 

Vengeance and SHAHA 06 have made Midams the last two seasons.

Edited April 15, 2022 by fafa fohi

[Danner27]

23 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Vengeance and SHAHA 06 have made Midams the last two seasons.

15U this season there is only 8 tier 1 teams in the district. While I’m glad these teams made the district tourney see if it holds at 16U. Remember all the better 06’s would have been playing up on a 16U team. Only two teams didn’t qualify for the 15’s district tier 1 tournament. The predators being one of them - dead last ?

How did shaha & vengeance do at the 15u tourney ? 

[fafa fohi]

24 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

15U this season there is only 8 tier 1 teams in the district. While I’m glad these teams made the district tourney see if it holds at 16U. Remember all the better 06’s would have been playing up on a 16U team. Only two teams didn’t qualify for the 15’s district tier 1 tournament. The predators being one of them - dead last ?

How did shaha & vengeance do at the 15u tourney ? 

SHAHA went 2-1 this year, and Vengeance went 2-1 last year.  But you keep on moving those goal posts.

[Danner27]

14 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

SHAHA went 2-1 this year, and Vengeance went 2-1 last year.  But you keep on moving those goal posts.

Im Not moving any goal posts. The better 06’s would have been playing up at 16U. It’s just a fact. It’s been like this since 15u was created. 
 

looking at this years tournament results 15U vengeance did terrible, shaha did ok. Like I said, see if shaha makes it at 16U when more teams like culver & Gilmour enter into the standings. 
 

glad to see both teams made the 15u tournament. Years past it would only be PPE and Esmark locally. Just two years ago 15U had 12 teams. Why only 8 this year ? I see the icemen didn’t have a team.

[Saucey]

25 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

 see the icemen didn’t have a team.

Icemen have been fielding independent AA. You know, charge parents AAA prices to play same level they could have in PAHL.

[fafa fohi]

51 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Im Not moving any goal posts. The better 06’s would have been playing up at 16U. It’s just a fact. It’s been like this since 15u was created. 
 

looking at this years tournament results 15U vengeance did terrible, shaha did ok. Like I said, see if shaha makes it at 16U when more teams like culver & Gilmour enter into the standings. 
 

glad to see both teams made the 15u tournament. Years past it would only be PPE and Esmark locally. Just two years ago 15U had 12 teams. Why only 8 this year ? I see the icemen didn’t have a team.

Bottom line is the heralded PPE program is not producing what they are selling and advertising.  While you and others continue to drool over the only true AAA program in town for a mere $30K a year, I am not seeing a huge difference on what they are achieving on the ice vs. those "faux AAA teams" at under $10K a year.  

It has been said here a million times - if you have the money go for it.  

My math skills are not great, but follow me on this.  I calculated the following - PPE U14, U15 and U16 played 3-4 more games than those other AAA programs that went to Midams and did not qualify for Nationals - by going to Nationals PPE parents shelled out another $20 grand.  That works out to be $5-7K more per game, not forgetting that top tier "development" they are getting at Lemieux for the price tag.

Such a deal.

[Danner27]

15 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Bottom line is the heralded PPE program is not producing what they are selling and advertising.  While you and others continue to drool over the only true AAA program in town for a mere $30K a year, I am not seeing a huge difference on what they are achieving on the ice vs. those "faux AAA teams" at under $10K a year.  

It has been said here a million times - if you have the money go for it.  

My math skills are not great, but follow me on this.  I calculated the following - PPE U14, U15 and U16 played 3-4 more games than those other AAA programs that went to Midams and did not qualify for Nationals - by going to Nationals PPE parents shelled out another $20 grand.  That works out to be $5-7K more per game, not forgetting that top tier "development" they are getting at Lemieux for the price tag.

Such a deal.

You are completely missing the point. It’s not about cost or winning nationals. Let me know the day a kid from the vengeance youth programs goes to a real junior league. 

[Saucey]

Assuming that most kids and parents are there to get to the next level, the other programs just aren't being scouted. You have to be looked at to move on. I don't ever see anyone drooling over the Pens on this board. I don't hear anyone who has ever played for them do any drooling, either. People are there to move up. That's it.

Every once in a while someone gets all excited and says....PAHL sucks or doesn't offer enough and that's why we left for independent or faux AAA and we are so happy etc. But those teams always seem to disintegrate. So...since those things were still on offer, presumably, the families left to chase. Still going nowhere. Those of you saying those things just don't want to admit you are chasing.

[muckerandgrinder]

3 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

At the younger birth years (2009 and lower), Vengeance is fielding better teams than Esmark. I don't see that changing anytime soon. You may want to slide Esmark to your "faux" category.

Is there any truth to the rumor that Esmark ‘11 is cold calling people who did not make Vengeance and Preds 2011 teams to fill out their roster and added a bunch of AA players?
Also heard that Pens ‘11 black got deep into their alternate callback list after players declined and headed for Vengeance and Preds squads. 
(Pens black also adding players cut by Vengeance and Preds?)
If this is true Esmark could be taking a bit of a step back in the younger groups.

 

it would be strange because Esmark has always been near the top.

[stickboy]

Esmark’s younger ages (14u and down) have always been irrelevant (fundraiser?).  Even more so now, as it seems Vengeance tops them at these ages.  However, Vengeance does not have a good track record at the midget levels, so Esmark gets them back then.  Will be interesting to see if Vengeance can build and retain the current kids over the next few years as they move up. 

[Danner27]

Heard all ages @ predators “AAA” didn’t have enough players at tryouts. 

[fafa fohi]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

You are completely missing the point. It’s not about cost or winning nationals. Let me know the day a kid from the vengeance youth programs goes to a real junior league. 

Oh, so now PPE exists to send your kid to a “real junior league.”  Yeah I’m sure that message  is part of their corporate sell job.   

 

 

[muckerandgrinder]

6 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Heard all ages @ predators “AAA” didn’t have enough players at tryouts. 

Could be the case at other age groups  but I was just going by on what I heard about the ‘11s. 
If I’m correct Esmark doesn’t field teams until PW and never had any competition for players after Pens tryouts at 12U minor until now.
Sounds like that has changed? Looked it up and it looks like Veng. and Preds had decent showings last year. 
Maybe they did well enough to retain players and draw players to their teams?

Either way. Talking about ‘11s here but more or less wondering what effect Esmark having to compete for players at the younger levels will look like in a few years down the road.

Funny how much info a pissed off parent who had their “faux PAHL AA/AAA independent” team dismantled will get up with in a ten minute conversation. My ears were bleeding lol
 

[Danner27]

6 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

Oh, so now PPE exists to send your kid to a “real junior league.”  Yeah I’m sure that message  is part of their corporate sell job.   

 

 

That’s why kids are playing tier 1 - to move on. PPE has the best track record here. 

[PUCKCOVID19]

8 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

That’s why kids are playing tier 1 - to move on. PPE has the best track record here. 

very true. remark gets their NAHL tenders( which is required as part of being in the NAPHL) so its more a freebee. may 1 out of every 1 make the team that tenders them, otherwise they end up in tier3 JR's

[aaaahockey]

Talking about 11s we have hit rock bottom. Have some perspective.  Someone needs to replicate @Sauceychart and see how many mites had to play elite to make it to the show ?

[Ihearthockey]

3 hours ago, muckerandgrinder said:

Is there any truth to the rumor that Esmark ‘11 is cold calling people who did not make Vengeance and Preds 2011 teams to fill out their roster and added a bunch of AA players?
 

Aren't most kids on these "AAA" teams AA players at one point? PW minor is still young enough where it's not crazy to think that some AA PAHL kids can make these teams.  Just my opinion.

[muckerandgrinder]

56 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Talking about 11s we have hit rock bottom. Have some perspective.  Someone needs to replicate @Sauceychart and see how many mites had to play elite to make it to the show ?

The topic had turned to what was happening at 09s and younger and how it might affect Esmark. Basically I was  asking if what I heard was true since it might be a factor in the local landscape WHEN THE ‘11 AGE GROUP IS AT BANTAM (2 years) AND MIDGET.
Had the thread not wandered in that direction I wouldn’t have even brought it up.

But, being that you wanted gravitate everyone toward “perspective” I have some for you as well.

-You have referred to the , ahem,…mite age groups a few times in recent memory. Not in a bad manner but in regards to development. I thought it made sense since this after all, a place where people post about youth hockey. 
-You my friend are one shy of 700 posts on a freaking youth hockey message board. 
Rock bottom?
Think about it. 
Perspective.

????????????

[muckerandgrinder]

2 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Aren't most kids on these "AAA" teams AA players at one point? PW minor is still young enough where it's not crazy to think that some AA PAHL kids can make these teams.  Just my opinion.

Yes. I agree 100%. My son followed that very same trajectory. Checking was the game changer for him and he thrived when the game got faster and more physical while others dropped by the wayside. He played AAA until he graduated. And yes. He plays beer league and has a blast.
I just heard that Esmark rostered a bunch of AA players and was scouring for others after other teams tryouts were over. 
Still… nothing wrong with that either as long as you play a schedule that is on par with your level of skill.

Pretty sure that is not Esmark’s way of doing things though.

AA players can definitely move up to Tier 1. But a whole team of them playing high end opponents all season might not be the best idea.

Again, this is one person with a few cocktails in them telling me this so who knows how much truth there is. 
That’s why I asked. Curiosity got the best of me lol

[Saucey]

13 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Heard all ages @ predators “AAA” didn’t have enough players at tryouts. 

True. They were advertising a supplemental. ?‍♂️

[Danner27]

32 minutes ago, Saucey said:

True. They were advertising a supplemental. ?‍♂️

Maybe folks are getting wise to that bottom of the barrel extra A.