junior placements/NCDC

[hockey2020]

I see about four PENS ELITE 18u players are going to the BCHL and several to the NAHL, and ESMARK has one 18u going to the NCDC and a couple  to the NAHL.  How does the NCDC stack up? Don’t know much about that league does it send kids to D1? is it as good as NAHL?

[Danner27]

Going to main camp - does not mean they are on the teams, or will make the teams. Being drafted, tendered etc is ultimately just an invite to the real main camp, not the money making regional stuff. Just look over all the drafts & tenders from esmark for the past few years. 90% never made it. PPE has a little bit better success rate. 

 

as for the NCDC - a lot of coaches, scouts etc look at it like tier 2.5 - it’s better than most of the tier 3 leagues but somewhat on par with the EHL tier 3. Like tier 2, you don’t pay to pay (but there are some fees associated with all levels of junior hockey). The ncdc does not send many kids to NCAA d1, it’s very rare. The ones that do make it to ncaa d1 that the usphl tries  to say “he played in the ncdc!” Usually just had a quick stop there for a few games or a season before moving up to another league. I had a chart from the 19-20 NCAA season that showed where every freshman came from. The ncdc was at the bottom, a very distant bottom. It was negligible. 

I actually know a young man who played a season in the ncdc moved down to the EHL (top tier 3 league) on purpose to make his path to ncaa d3.

like the usphl premier, na3hl, most of the ehl - most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman.  
 

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Danner27

[hockeyisgreat]

Danner27 said "most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman."

 

Is this a good or bad thing?  Is there another way to ACHA?  Can 19yr olds out of high school play in the ACHA?  I know we have talked about it before!  How good is the ACHA?  Pitt for example?

[Pa Hockey]

15 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Danner27 said "most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman."

 

Is this a good or bad thing?  Is there another way to ACHA?  Can 19yr olds out of high school play in the ACHA?  I know we have talked about it before!  How good is the ACHA?  Pitt for example?

ACHA D 1 is on par and maybe a notch below NCAA D-!!! IMHO

More High School Hockey Players are going straight to ACHA Hockey and saving lots of money and many have excelled in doing so ! 

FYI - Slippery Rock Hockey Program may be reinstated a little birdie told me and that would be great 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Pa Hockey

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Danner27 said "most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman."

 

Is this a good or bad thing?  Is there another way to ACHA?  Can 19yr olds out of high school play in the ACHA?  I know we have talked about it before!  How good is the ACHA?  Pitt for example?

Fresh from High school can play. Look at rosters. They might not play much but that may be similar to a high school freshman on high school varsity.

I dislike that trend, too. The 20 21 year old player spent a lot of money in juniors somewhere and delayed life.

Pitt IUP Ca University RMU John Carroll are options for the player who does not wish to delay school. You need to have the grades..

[RegDunlop7]

;

Edited March 15, 2023 by RegDunlop7

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Danner27 said "most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman."

 

Is this a good or bad thing?  Is there another way to ACHA?  Can 19yr olds out of high school play in the ACHA?  I know we have talked about it before!  How good is the ACHA?  Pitt for example?

Sure tons of kids go right to the acha. You don’t have to play junior hockey. Just look up all the western pa college teams, take a look where the kids came from. You’ll find a big mix of HS, PAHL, AAA & tier 3 juniors. 
 

those top 10 powerhouse acha  programs - different story.

 

I agree with @Pa Hockey for the second time on here - a lot of the acha teams are on par, in some cases better then the majority of NCAA D3 teams. NCAA D3 is completely different discussion for another day but the short of it - just look at the school’s that have it. Sure you have Adrian along with some of the well known power house type programs that are legit. the majority just use the team and the label to get people to pay to goto their colleges. Think of ncaa d3 the way we think of AAA hockey. A lot of “faux” teams! For every legit team there are 10 faux teams. Instead of parents paying for the the extra A status, they are paying for the NCAA Status. 

[Carl Racki]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Danner27 said "most ncdc kids end up in the acha as 20-21-22 year old college freshman."

 

Is this a good or bad thing?  Is there another way to ACHA?  Can 19yr olds out of high school play in the ACHA?  I know we have talked about it before!  How good is the ACHA?  Pitt for example?

ACHA is fun to play and good hockey but I would not spend a lot of money playing tier 3 juniors to do it.  What is the end game really?

[hockey2020]

and what about D2 hockey? i know there are very few teams so what is the point of being D2 over D3? do they only play each other?

Edited April 8, 2022 by hockey2020

[Danner27]

51 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

and what about D2 hockey? i know there are very few teams so what is the point of being D2 over D3? do they only play each other?

NCAA D2 or ACHA D2(M2) ? 
 

ncaa d2 is all but gone. It was implemented back in the day to try and follow the way the NCAA tiers it’s sports but never caught on. 

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

43 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

and what about D2 hockey? i know there are very few teams so what is the point of being D2 over D3? do they only play each other?

https://www.ncsasports.org/mens-hockey/colleges

There aren't many NCAA D2 programs and there is no D2 nationals. I assume those schools stay in D2 for some other reason. Around the turn of the century, the better D2 & D3 programs, like Mercyhurst and RIT, went to D1. I'm not sure about the motivation though. IT seems like we are pretty consistently going to have around 50-60 NCAA D1 teams and about that many in D2/D3, with the vast majority being D3. The gap between D1 and D3 is huge. There are NCAA D1 guys who play in the NHL after their season is over. Some NCAA D3 guys play in the ECHL for a while.

As for the comment about playing Tier 3 Jr only to end up in the ACHA ranks...I kind of doubt that was the plan. I am sure in most cases, kids thought they'd give Jr a shot and see what happens. Some of them may have had realistic expectations, and some may not. The one thing that is true is that once you're 22, you're too old to play Jr. If you think it could go anywhere at all, you can't go back when you're 25 and play Jr. For most of them, even if they play Tier 1 junior or junior in Canada, there isn't a spot for them in the NCAA and they have to do something because they've reached the end of the junior road. That might mean anything - selling cars, working in a factory, or playing hockey at an ACHA school. All of the questions about whether they should have spend the money chasing the dream, well, it's their money, they can do what they want with it.

Also depending on the area...a lot of kids are 19 when they graduate from high school these days, especially boys. I have watched them change Midget ages several times to account for kids starting kindergarten later and later. I believe in the 80s, midget was 16 and 17, and if you were 18, you were too old. In the 90s, they changed the ages several times and eventually we landed on the current setup, where midget is 4 years (technically it is 16U and 18U). So the comments about getting started with your life and the 19-20-21 year old freshmen, well, some of them are that old anyhow due to other, non-hockey reasons.

[Danner27]

55 minutes ago, Carl Racki said:

ACHA is fun to play and good hockey but I would not spend a lot of money playing tier 3 juniors to do it.  What is the end game really?

100% - that 10-20k a year playing BS tier 3 juniors can go towards college. If your child doesn’t have a legit shot at ncaa d1 hockey. Stop the madness. Don’t take away their youth living away from home. Don’t make them a 20-21 year old college freshman. Goto school, play acha. The majority of the NCAA D1 players are done after college. 

[RJUSHL]

Seems like if a kid can't play USHL or NAHL, forget the junior hockey and go to college at a normal age, get an education, and play NCAA D3 or ACHA and have a great time. Once college is over they can be involved in hockey in other ways, but their competitive playing career is over at that point.

[hockey2020]

4 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Seems like if a kid can't play USHL or NAHL, forget the junior hockey and go to college at a normal age, get an education, and play NCAA D3 or ACHA and have a great time. Once college is over they can be involved in hockey in other ways, but their competitive playing career is over at that point.

agree. i’m sure acha is fun too. sounds like a couple of the canadian leagues are also worth while but other than that acha/recreational play sounds like better option. 

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

9 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Seems like if a kid can't play USHL or NAHL, forget the junior hockey and go to college at a normal age, get an education, and play NCAA D3 or ACHA and have a great time. Once college is over they can be involved in hockey in other ways, but their competitive playing career is over at that point.

I think that NCAA D3 usually has kids with Jr experience. I think that was kind of a point Danner made about NCAA D3 being the ultimate "extra A" division. The hockey may not be much better, but the bragging is.

[Danner27]

I should add - when talking to a friend who once worked for usa hockey (in Denver) we were talking junior hockey. He made this comment. 
 

“hockey is the first sport to figure out how to keep making money off kids once they age out of youth. Keep selling the dream until they are 21”.

he’s damn right. 
 

 

[sarampage]

27 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I should add - when talking to a friend who once worked for usa hockey (in Denver) we were talking junior hockey. He made this comment. 
 

“hockey is the first sport to figure out how to keep making money off kids once they age out of youth. Keep selling the dream until they are 21”.

he’s damn right. 
 

 

Which is why my son is going straight to college when he graduates high school.  He is capable of playing ACHA, so if the school has a team, he can play if he chooses.  Most of the  kids spending $$$ to play Juniors end up in the same place as a player right out of high school...the money spent could probably pay a year (or two) of tuition at some schools.

[twoboys]

Hockey is different beast.  No real incentive to hold your kid back like there is for other sports.  When my son graduates high school he will have one year of amateur eligibility left.  So, he he can play another year of U18 or even juniors and still go to college at the same age as a lot of his friends.

Lacrosse is different.  They double hold backs.  

 

[Saucey]

3 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

ACHA is fun to play and good hockey but I would not spend a lot of money playing tier 3 juniors to do it.  What is the end game really?

I don't think kids play juniors to get into ACHA. They didn't get what they wanted from the juniors.

[hockey2020]

2 minutes ago, Saucey said:

I don't think kids play juniors to get into ACHA. They didn't get what they wanted from the juniors.

correct. they have a different goal in mind. some paths make sense others don’t but to each their own. playing D1 is tough. many don’t realize 

[sadday4hockey]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

“hockey is the first sport to figure out how to keep making money off kids once they age out of youth. Keep selling the dream until they are 21”.

he’s damn right.

And he's also quite the hypocrite when you realize that USA Hockey was the founder of and still the World Wide Leader in exploiting youth hockey for money.

[Danner27]

17 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

And he's also quite the hypocrite when you realize that USA Hockey was the founder of and still the World Wide Leader in exploiting youth hockey for money.

Thus, the reason he quit years back. He’s far from a hypocrite. He knew what was going on, moved on with life. This is the guy that told me when checking was moved to Bantam it was a pure money decision. Usa hockey enrollments drop when the hitting starts.   

[carroll81]

37 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Thus, the reason he quit years back. He’s far from a hypocrite. He knew what was going on, moved on with life. This is the guy that told me when checking was moved to Bantam it was a pure money decision. Usa hockey enrollments drop when the hitting starts.   

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

[Denis Lemiuex]

The one thing to add here is that kids going from HS to ACHA might not play right away vs kids who go the junior route (both real junior leagues and money makers). Mostly physical maturity.

[sadday4hockey]

Good on him for getting out. I'm all for increasing numbers and I guess I'm still uncertain what is the correct age to introduce hitting. All that being said, The $$$ amount that is spent on the top 10% players should not be 90% and the amount spent on "the other 90%" should not be 10%.