junior placements/NCDC

[carroll81]

31 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

Good on him for getting out. I'm all for increasing numbers and I guess I'm still uncertain what is the correct age to introduce hitting. All that being said, The $$$ amount that is spent on the top 10% players should not be 90% and the amount spent on "the other 90%" should not be 10%.

Agreed.  I wonder how they compare to all the other NGO's in the US.  Maybe something I will research while watching golf this weekend.

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, carroll81 said:

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

Not sure if we are understanding each other. Checking years back began in PW. USAH moved it to bantam. Most of this reason was participation drops when hitting starts. When enrollment drops USAH loses revenue.  

[Danner27]

2 hours ago, carroll81 said:

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

Not sure if we are understanding each other. Checking years back began in PW. USAH moved it to bantam. Most of this reason was participation drops when hitting starts. When enrollment drops USAH loses revenue.  

[aaaahockey]

If we did it "correctly" contact would begin at mites and full checking as soon as the kids can do it properly without hurting each other.   Instead because of poor coaching, wussying of society, inconsistent reffing, and the ability to milk parents of money until bantam when their children quit early, we put off checking until puberty when kids differ 4-6 inches and 20-100 lbs.   Very smart!

[Carl Racki]

6 hours ago, carroll81 said:

So USA Hockey changes checking, which increases participation, which is part of their charter, and it's because they are exploiting youth hockey for money?

Has anyone seen the new USA Hockey player / coaching fees?  They are definitely exploiting hockey in general for money.  The fees for players, coaches,  and refs are out of control.  I was actually going to start a topic about it. 

[whatever]

My son is finishing Juniors this year. He's going to be a 21 year old freshman.  Juniors didn't cost us $. He is committed to NCAA D1.  He was a late bloomer.  As a matter of fact...he played on the Pens elite black back in the day whenever everyone said that was a waste of money and kids playing there shouldn't be playing triple A.  I'm glad we didn't listen and let him play on the black team.  I don't look at it as if he "delayed" life.  Who sets the timeline on what life is supposed to look like?  With that being said, I thought I'd enclose some data for those who are interested.  

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by whatever
trying to get documents loaded

[whatever]

[hockeyfan99]

Just thought I'd chime in on this. Besides the USHL, the NAHL, and Canadian Jr A leagues are very good at placing players to NCAA Division 1.

 

However, with that being said, people often look down on the NCDC in not being able to produce NCAA, let alone Division 1 commits when in the matter is, that simply just isn't true. The NCDC is a decent league, with a few teams, such as New Jersey Hitmen, Boston Jr Bruins, and New Jersey Rockets producing actual in-season NCAA Division 1 commitments. While they do claim many Division 1 commitments who committed elsewhere, before stopping in the NCDC, there are a handful of actual Division 1 commitments that were earned actually while playing in the league.

Here are some of my opinions on the NCDC...

Pros:

1. - The NCDC does tend to place a few actual Division 1 commitments every season. For example, PM (hitmen - LIU), DL (hitmen - penn state), JW (rockets - Niagara), PW (PAL - Mercyhurst), HC (Northeastern - PAL), all played a full season with their team and committed during or after the season.

HOWEVER, with that being said, many of these players who go from the NCDC to Division 1 are walk ons and DO NOT see almost any ice time. A kid committed to Vermont from the Hitmen organization and was given a full ride, however simply because he didnt go BCHL or USHL and decided to play NCDC, he was not ready for that level and transfered to Mercyhurst.

If you look at any of the Division 1 commits from Hitmen NCDC, you can see almost none of them are doing well right now in the collegiate level.

 

2. - The league is a EXCELLENT league for very high level NCAA Division 3 placement. Schools like Adrian College, SUNY Genesceo, NESCAC, flock to the league to pick up kids. NCAA d3 is very competitive. Adiran almost beat USNTDP U18 and Bowling Green Division 1 a few years ago. Many D3 schools could give low end NCAA D1 teams like LIU a run for its money.

 

3. - it is close to home. For many players, they play in this league because it is close to home. Opting for a year of potentially not even billeting before going out midwest for a year.

 

4. Great option for 18U players to start the experience of junior hockey. Many kids even from programs, like PPE, Esmark, to name a few cannot succeed well in the NAHL. It simply is so much more fast and physical. A year here before going to NAHL, BCHL, AJHL, is a great option.

 

Cons:

1. This league is where many NCAA D1 commitments go to die. Although commits are gained from this league, some commits also die from this league. Many Division 1 programs, especially powerhouse programs, see players who get cut from USHL, canada jra, and NAHL and end up in this league as players that didn't develop right. IHC had a couple of kids who lost their NCAA division 1 scholarships because they played there. In fact, on Hitmen NCDC, there are two kids who lost their D1 commit playing there this season or in the last two seasons. BC (Bentley decoed), AC (Cornell decoed), (TS Qunnipiac decoed, went to Trinity) and TS (Holy Cross decoed, went to Tufts).

2. Many teams in this league have scummy people running them. Aka hidden fees, players much worse making the team, and getting sent down to premier for no reason.

3. Many players who get a division 1 opportunity often transfer right out of division 1 after a year. Example: (RP - Hitmen - from Maine to utica).

 

Don't hate on ACHA either... we all know Liberty ACHA D1 beat LIU NCAA D1, and could give the lower half of atlantic hockey as well as almost all of d3 a run for its money.

[Danner27]

10 hours ago, hockeyfan99 said:

Just thought I'd chime in on this. Besides the USHL, the NAHL, and Canadian Jr A leagues are very good at placing players to NCAA Division 1.

 

However, with that being said, people often look down on the NCDC in not being able to produce NCAA, let alone Division 1 commits when in the matter is, that simply just isn't true. The NCDC is a decent league, with a few teams, such as New Jersey Hitmen, Boston Jr Bruins, and New Jersey Rockets producing actual in-season NCAA Division 1 commitments. While they do claim many Division 1 commitments who committed elsewhere, before stopping in the NCDC, there are a handful of actual Division 1 commitments that were earned actually while playing in the league.

Here are some of my opinions on the NCDC...

Pros:

1. - The NCDC does tend to place a few actual Division 1 commitments every season. For example, PM (hitmen - LIU), DL (hitmen - penn state), JW (rockets - Niagara), PW (PAL - Mercyhurst), HC (Northeastern - PAL), all played a full season with their team and committed during or after the season.

HOWEVER, with that being said, many of these players who go from the NCDC to Division 1 are walk ons and DO NOT see almost any ice time. A kid committed to Vermont from the Hitmen organization and was given a full ride, however simply because he didnt go BCHL or USHL and decided to play NCDC, he was not ready for that level and transfered to Mercyhurst.

If you look at any of the Division 1 commits from Hitmen NCDC, you can see almost none of them are doing well right now in the collegiate level.

 

2. - The league is a EXCELLENT league for very high level NCAA Division 3 placement. Schools like Adrian College, SUNY Genesceo, NESCAC, flock to the league to pick up kids. NCAA d3 is very competitive. Adiran almost beat USNTDP U18 and Bowling Green Division 1 a few years ago. Many D3 schools could give low end NCAA D1 teams like LIU a run for its money.

 

3. - it is close to home. For many players, they play in this league because it is close to home. Opting for a year of potentially not even billeting before going out midwest for a year.

 

4. Great option for 18U players to start the experience of junior hockey. Many kids even from programs, like PPE, Esmark, to name a few cannot succeed well in the NAHL. It simply is so much more fast and physical. A year here before going to NAHL, BCHL, AJHL, is a great option.

 

Cons:

1. This league is where many NCAA D1 commitments go to die. Although commits are gained from this league, some commits also die from this league. Many Division 1 programs, especially powerhouse programs, see players who get cut from USHL, canada jra, and NAHL and end up in this league as players that didn't develop right. IHC had a couple of kids who lost their NCAA division 1 scholarships because they played there. In fact, on Hitmen NCDC, there are two kids who lost their D1 commit playing there this season or in the last two seasons. BC (Bentley decoed), AC (Cornell decoed), (TS Qunnipiac decoed, went to Trinity) and TS (Holy Cross decoed, went to Tufts).

2. Many teams in this league have scummy people running them. Aka hidden fees, players much worse making the team, and getting sent down to premier for no reason.

3. Many players who get a division 1 opportunity often transfer right out of division 1 after a year. Example: (RP - Hitmen - from Maine to utica).

 

Don't hate on ACHA either... we all know Liberty ACHA D1 beat LIU NCAA D1, and could give the lower half of atlantic hockey as well as almost all of d3 a run for its money.

Well said! I agree with a lot of what you said outside of NCAA D3. The majority of ncaa d3 is on par with good acha hockey. Yes, as you pointed out (as did I) powerhouse schools such as Adrian are a different story. 
 

 Talking about the “scummy” people running the ncdc - take a look how hard it is for a kid to transfer out to another league  - serious financial penalties to pay to the usphl. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Danner27

[Danner27]

13 hours ago, whatever said:

My son is finishing Juniors this year. He's going to be a 21 year old freshman.  Juniors didn't cost us $. He is committed to NCAA D1.  He was a late bloomer.  As a matter of fact...he played on the Pens elite black back in the day whenever everyone said that was a waste of money and kids playing there shouldn't be playing triple A.  I'm glad we didn't listen and let him play on the black team.  I don't look at it as if he "delayed" life.  Who sets the timeline on what life is supposed to look like?  With that being said, I thought I'd enclose some data for those who are interested.  

 

 

This is the chart I had from 19-20. Glen Heffran tracks it. It hasn’t changed much at all. If you were to look up the few players that came from ncdc you will find out a good amount of them only spent a little time in the ncdc - making the ncdc number lower than it already is. If nothing has changed, that’s the way the data was a few years ago 

 

congrats to your kid! The point being made around here - it’s highly unlikely for a player to make it to ncaa d1. Your chance of hitting the powerball is probably higher. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Danner27

[Danner27]

This site tracks all the NCAA D1 commits up to the 2022-23 season. 
 

https://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/recruits/list/Arizona-State/62

Arizona was the last team I clicked on - use the recruit tab on the right and select a team.  
 

currently there are 8 western pa players committed to ncaa d1 programs up to the 2022-23 season. It’s likely I missed someone, maybe not. 

Of these 8 players -

One is the son of the guy that runs the pro team here. We all know this bs story. (PPE)

Cooley who is considered one of the top 2004 BY prospects in all of NA (PPE)

dowiak left western pa started at (PPE) very high end player. HaD the opportunity to place lacrosse. 

servagno into the ushl at 17

schade Is considered a top 2003 BY D prospect (PPE) 

pichora (goalie) started out in the USHL. Bounced around to the NAHL then finally the NCDC. See the likely outcome posted by someone else above. Hopefully he’s the exception being he’s a goalie not a forward or d. 

three of these 8 are committed to PSU. I haven’t looked it up, just memory alone I think 5 of the 8 are in the USHL, all came from PPE. All 8 spent time in the USHL. 

That’s it from western pa for the next 2 seasons so far.  

Edited April 9, 2022 by Danner27

[hockey2020]

great information on all fronts. whatever - in what league did your son play juniors? i agree wholeheartedly that you can’t listen to other people and everyone has their own path. juniors is an experience in and of itself and not a waste of time for many even if it doesn’t result in D1. some leagues do take advantage and many mediocre players have unrealistic expectations  but it is what it is. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by hockey2020

[Danner27]

16 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

great information on all fronts. whatever - in what league did your son play juniors? i agree wholeheartedly that you can’t listen to other people and everyone has their own path. juniors is an experience in and of itself and not a waste of time for many even if it doesn’t result in D1. some leagues do take advantage and many mediocre players shouldn’t be there but it is what it is. 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Danner27

[whatever]

1 hour ago, hockey2020 said:

great information on all fronts. whatever - in what league did your son play juniors? i agree wholeheartedly that you can’t listen to other people and everyone has their own path. juniors is an experience in and of itself and not a waste of time for many even if it doesn’t result in D1. some leagues do take advantage and many mediocre players have unrealistic expectations  but it is what it is. 

My son is in the NAHL.   Committed for the 23-24 season.  

[whatever]

3 hours ago, Danner27 said:

This is the chart I had from 19-20. Glen Heffran tracks it. It hasn’t changed much at all. If you were to look up the few players that came from ncdc you will find out a good amount of them only spent a little time in the ncdc - making the ncdc number lower than it already is. If nothing has changed, that’s the way the data was a few years ago 

 

congrats to your kid! The point being made around here - it’s highly unlikely for a player to make it to ncaa d1. Your chance of hitting the powerball is probably higher. 

I agree.   It wasn't until I saw these charts that I realized the small amount of kids that make it Div1.