07 Tryouts

[Happy Hockey Fan]

31 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

They cut him because his family isn’t well off, such BS but they were about to start the excel stuff. 
 

had this kid been giving the opportunities others had, I have no doubt he would have ended up in the ushl or possibly the ohl. 

Dead on. Hopefully he can overcome the obstacles. From what I know about him, he has the drive to go with his talent. I think he should be in the USHL. Better than a number of kids who have had that opportunity. 

[hockey2020]

well according to this board pens doesn’t create good opportunities anyway and kids who leave are better off elsewhere- so this kid oughta be just fine …

an 03 so probably played juniors last year - any eyes from ushl or ohl have now seen him so pretty hard to blame pens for anything at this point? but u guys will find a way?

Edited July 9, 2022 by hockey2020

[hockey2020]

f

Edited July 9, 2022 by hockey2020

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, hockey2020 said:

well according to this board pens doesn’t create good opportunities anyway and kids who leave are better off elsewhere- so this kid oughta be just fine …

an 03 so probably played juniors last year - any eyes from ushl or ohl have now seen him so pretty hard to blame pens for anything at this point? but u guys will find a way?

The ushl is a younger league. Those kids are out of there - in d1 before 20.  Top players that start are 17-18. 

if this kid came from money, parents had the connections I have no doubt he would have been in the ushl at a young age. He would have been drafted at some point last year in the nhl. He is a better player currently than voit plus has more speed & size (I’m a big marc & Ty voit fan so that’s saying a lot) ty is better in his own zone. 
 

Morehouse used this kid to carry the ppe 03 BY until he could start drawing on the some of the best prospects in NA to put around his own kid. Once he got his plan in place, players to come in and excel money flowing they dumped the kid. 
 

I’ll ad,  this kid we are talking about is very grounded. Never flaunted how good he was. He would play with anyone regardless of skill level. he would play on tournament teams in the summer regardless if it was a major, aa or aaa. If the team wasn’t very skilled he would score just enough for them to win and then spend the rest of his ice time setting kids up.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Danner27

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Dead on. Hopefully he can overcome the obstacles. From what I know about him, he has the drive to go with his talent. I think he should be in the USHL. Better than a number of kids who have had that opportunity. 

the current junior leauge he’s in - he’s averaging a point per game on one of the worse teams in the league, I’m pretty sure that puts him as one of the top players and he’s only 18 years old. He has to make it out of that league this year as a 19 year old and back to the nahl to have a chance. He’s pretty much passed the ushl age. Unfortunately the nahl has a lot of politics these days, especially Johnstown. FFS the player we are speaking of didn’t make Johnstown but a mediocre slow player who joined pitt’s acha team mid season(one of the dads I referenced in that thread)  made Johnstown. Scratch your head at that one!  But half way through the season dad’s money and political pull couldn’t keep the kid there, he was cut and joined pitt. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

The ushl is a younger league. Those kids are out of there - in d1 before 20.  Top players that start are 17-18. 

if this kid came from money, parents had the connections I have no doubt he would have been in the ushl at a young age. He would have been drafted at some point last year in the nhl. He is a better player currently than voit plus has more speed & size (I’m a big marc & Ty voit fan so that’s saying a lot) ty is better in his own zone. 
 

Morehouse used this kid to carry the ppe 03 BY until he could start drawing on the some of the best prospects in NA to put around his own kid. Once he got his plan in place, players to come in and excel money flowing they dumped the kid. 
 

I’ll ad,  this kid we are talking about is very grounded. Never flaunted how good he was. He would play with anyone regardless of skill level. he would play on tournament teams in the summer regardless if it was a major, aa or aaa. If the team wasn’t very skilled he would score just enough for them to win and then spend the rest of his ice time setting kids up.

Once again, dead on. Very grounded, never bragged once in all the years I have been around him. Always talks about team success. Very unselfish. If he was needed to score to win he would, but if his team was up he would make every effort to set other players up, and he was very successful at that too. There is no doubt that money and politics have hindered his opportunities, but with his drive I believe he will move on to higher levels. If he stays in the league he played in last year he may average 2 points a game, maybe better. 

[hockey2020]

well i do agree that unfortunately the kids with family money/clout get better opps. not sure what happened with this kid on the nahl team he did end up making? if he keeps at it this year and next no doubt he will go higher. 

[Danner27]

3 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

well i do agree that unfortunately the kids with family money/clout get better opps. not sure what happened with this kid on the nahl team he did end up making? if he keeps at it this year and next no doubt he will go higher. 

The NAHL is getting pretty political due to advisors. That NAHL for whatever reason is somewhat controlled by advisors the last few years, more than any other real junior league. 

[Danner27]

23 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

well according to this board pens doesn’t create good opportunities anyway and kids who leave are better off elsewhere- so this kid oughta be just fine …

an 03 so probably played juniors last year - any eyes from ushl or ohl have now seen him so pretty hard to blame pens for anything at this point? but u guys will find a way?

Never got noticed until he went to esmark at 18U. When the pens dumped him he played up a birth  year for two years at one of of the awful western pa faux aaa clubs. stuck around with them for a few years due to friends along with a special price.   
 

Yuri was after him all those wasted years, finally at 17 years old the kid realized he had to get off the faux team, leave his buddies behind. Played one year at esmark (his minor 18U year) made the naphl all star team, lead esmark in scoring. He was by far the best player on the team. After his first season with esmark he was tendered, drafted etc and out of western pa. This past season - his major 18U year, Esmark still rostered him but he never played for them. If he would have played either season on PPE 18U teams he would have been the best player there too! 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Danner27

[hockey2020]

57 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Never got noticed until he went to esmark at 18U. When the pens dumped him he played up a birth year up for 2 years at one of of the awful western pa faux aaa clubs. stuck around with them for a few years due to friends along with a special price.   
 

Yuri was after him all those wasted years, finally at 17 years old the kid realized he had to get off the faux team, leave his buddies behind. Played one year at esmark (his minor 18U year) made the naphl all star team, lead esmark in scoring. He was by far the best player on the team. After his first season with esmark he was tendered, drafted etc and out of western pa. This past season - his major 18U year, Esmark still rostered him but he never played for them. If he would have played either season on PPE 18U teams he would have been the best player there too! 

Edited July 9, 2022 by hockey2020
there are a couple from last two years of 18 i disagree about but do get it -

[ChiefKeef]

The good news is people are starting to see that penguins elite group for what they are (not the players).  The 03 parents tried to tell everyone a while ago. 

Now a squirt coach is on here trying to save face because they know it’s a heavily trafficked site in Western PA. 

Amusing to watch lol
 

Edited July 10, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[ChiefKeef]

On 7/8/2022 at 7:32 PM, nemesis8679 said:

Could it be they move on because paying 30K+ between the program and mandatory NC tuition is unattainable for many talented kids? 

That and piss poor development, burn out, pens and friends .  Remember when we all thought the 03 parents were crazy for trying to warn everyone in town what happens in Cranberry? 

These guys talk about commitments like they’re written in stone.  How many players actually made the Junior or College Squad?  Why was Columbus as of recently outperforming you in moving kids into juniors?  Why has there been so much turnover on your older teams?  Why is every player who leaves your program worthless? Why do so many players leave your program to begin with? Why is the only player who ever signed an NHL deal one who got fed up and left your program? How many of these commitments are panning out? Do you support players after they leave your program or do they never hear from you until you want to use their likeness to trick people into thinking you actually develop players? 

Cooley won’t save you.  That kid could have grown up in Egypt and still made it to the top. Can’t miss exceptional talent.  Basically everyone realizes that kid is a phenom, and their kid isn’t.  Where are the results outside of that? Where are the results for the non-can’t miss players? Take NHL caliber kids out of it.   I would think with the state of the art facilities and self proclaimed best coaching in the country__  that you would surely be putting a significant number of kids into higher levels of hockey left and right, right?!?!?!  
 

The development is trash at both Pens and Excel __ tune into Excel or Pens practices and see for yourself.  The kids hate it so much that they actively tell kids shadowing in Excel not to move to Pittsburgh and do it.  Someone was smart enough to realize that a small market like Pittsburgh was ripe for this kind of thing.  Not a lot of other options to play, and insecure parents.  Seems like people are waking up though.   At least enough to scare their employees.  See everything hockey2020 has posted lol 
 

Someone here said it best when they said people tolerate the Pens and can’t wait to get away from it.  The bad news is you’re just a business opportunity for them.  Your kids future isn’t their problem.  Whoever ends up nuking that program and re-establishing the Hornets should get a statue on fifth street.  
 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[Novos51]

7 hours ago, Danner27 said:

The NAHL is getting pretty political due to advisors. That NAHL for whatever reason is somewhat controlled by advisors the last few years, more than any other real junior league. 

This 100%. Good luck getting into an exposure camp without an adviser. Had a friend whose kid had NAHL talent went to some camps and not a call. Hired an adviser and next camp got multiple main camp invites. Ultimately decided to go to college but the point still stands

[hockey2020]

57 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

That and piss poor development, burn out, pens and friends is all true.  Remember when we all thought the 03 parents were crazy for trying to warn everyone in town what happens at Pens? 

These guys talk about commitments like they’re written in stone.  How many players actually made the Junior or College Squad?  Why was Columbus as of recently outperforming you in moving kids into juniors?  Why has there been so much turnover on your older teams?  Why is every player who leaves your program worthless? Why do so many players leave your program to begin with? Why is the only player who ever signed an NHL deal one who got fed up and left your program? How many of these commitments are panning out? Do you support players after they leave your program or do they never hear from you until you want to use their likeness to trick people into thinking you actually develop players? 

Cooley won’t save you.  That kid could have grown up in Egypt and still made it to the top. Can’t miss exceptional talent.  Basically everyone realizes that kid is a phenom, and their kid isn’t.  Where are the results outside of that? Where are the results for the non-can’t miss players? I would think with the state of the art facilities and self proclaimed best coaching in the country__ that you would surely be putting a significant number of kids into higher levels of hockey left and right, right?!?!?! 
 

The answer doesn’t matter really.  Because Excel is one giant facade to justify some of the salaries there.  At the expense of your kids well being.  The development is trash at both Pens and Excel __ tune into Excel or Pens practices and see for yourself.  The kids hate it so much that they actively tell kids shadowing in Excel not to move to Pittsburgh and do it.  I have to hand it to those guys in some ways. They manage to fool a ton of people and keep their scam in the dark.  Someone was smart enough to realize that a small market like Pittsburgh was ripe for this kind of thing.  Not a lot of other options to play, and insecure parents.  Seems like people are waking up though.   At least enough to scare their employees.  See everything hockey2020 has posted lol 
 

Someone here said it best when they said people tolerate the Pens and can’t wait to get away from it.  The bad news is your just a business opportunity for them.  Your kids future isn’t their problem.  
 

 

 

huh? had good experience there and so did my kid. that’s all. know many in good juniors programs from pens. just my experience. chill bud - you sure are obsessed with this organization you hate. lol

i guess it’s a prerequisite to pens bash if you are on this site for some reason  oh well …

 

Edited July 10, 2022 by hockey2020

[ChiefKeef]

5 minutes ago, hockey2020 said:

huh? had good experience there and so did my kid. that’s all. know many in good juniors programs from pens. just my experience. chill bud - you sure are obsessed with this organization you hate. lol

i guess it’s a prerequisite to pens bash if you are on this site for some reason  oh well …

 

Shut up 

[hockey2020]

4 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Shut up 

oh my. scared. 

[ChiefKeef]

I also just recently saw the that UPMC rink has started a new initiative to fundraise so kids can afford to play hockey.  While the hockey director sits and raises prices by the hundreds/thousands year after year lol

What’s the deal with that hockey2020?  Still using the old ‘ bUt BuT the Chicago Mission pay 15k!!!’ angle? That still work?  Lol 

The sooner someone sends all of you clowns back to Detroit and Chicago__ the sooner the hockey landscape here will prosper again.  In the meantime__ get off of this forum and get focused on those Canadien  /  Euro dollars.  It’s almost August and you got some teams to fill.  You boys are going to miss your quota.  I’m sure there’s some Ukrainian refugees out there you can take advantage of!! 

Edited July 10, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

So I’ve seen both sides of PPE. When my 99 was playing, mr Morehouse didn’t commandeer the program yet. 66 did for his kid, he got cut from the hornets.  The hornets kids that came over along with the new PPE kids - there was still good development, like any top program there was some politics but they were bearable. When my 99 was second year 16U, I believe is when Morehouse started taking control. At this point the entire purpose of the program was to fund the pro teams practice rink while developing Morehouse’s kid. As my 02 went through the system we watched quality players from the 02 & 03 birth year get screwed over. We watched a few kids -  15 year old 03’s get moved to 16U (voit who was the best of that 03 group from western pa in the program at this time ironically wasn’t good enough to be moved up) while the 02’s did the heavy lifting for that national championship. I guess I can say names at this point, these age groups are all 18 plus. Probably best I don’t - back on track - the top 02’s whom carried that team have all moved onto the ushl, ohl etc. they are all having success. the high end out of state 03’s all moved into real junior hockey after 16u. Bringing back memories here, forgot how much of a mess was started for that one kid who was drafted by every damn junior league, skated with Crosby all the time (Crosby even cut his sticks!) and still looked no different than any PAHL AA player even though he was playing with arguably some of the best 03’s from across North America. funny he stayed all the way through 18U never made a real junior team until this year, he is in the bchl - the Canadian version of nahl.   I don’t even want to continue on here with this, but the short - we were witness of the transformation to what the program has now become. 
 

but I’ll still stick with this statement, because it’s true - if your kid has the talent and you think he has a shot at real junior hockey the player needs to be at PPE, if not toss a Hail Mary to esmark at the midget ages or move the player out of state. It’s unfortunate but it’s the facts. Prime example is the 03 we have been referencing in this thread earlier.

 

[ChiefKeef]

Don’t disagree at all.  Most move to other programs.  The Barons 06 team is full of Pittsburgh kids.  These kids should be playing in their hometown based upon their talent level.  That’s the degradation level we are at. Some of the top 06’s, 07’s, 08’s from Pittsburgh no longer opt to play in Cranberry.  Why?  There’s too many kids who have left for them to blame it on the parents.  That’s always been the go to__ blame it on the kids and parents.  

That program has been hijacked by other programs toxic cast offs and they’ve found a comfy home here and a clientele that’s been moldable up until recently.  

Their results are garbage even compared to programs in smaller cities,  without a pro team,  and significantly less money.  Look at the cold hard facts on who ends up where and it’s shocking.  Now they’re blowing up their social media with check ins on former players to save face for the lack of current players making junior and college squads lol Creating an off-season ‘pro league’.  Anything to attach their names to someone with success so the elite mite program and squirt parents keep funneling those bucks for a few more years.  Maybe we can create a spreadsheet and pin it on the forum.  With data revolving around how many players coming out of the Penguins Elite program are successfully playing in a top junior league or on a top college program.  Just post the results and see if the 40k for Excel and regular season matches up!  Especially in this economy.  Yikes. 
 

If you want to break it down even further.  Of the group of kids who have managed to escape the Pens and play at higher levels__ how many have come from hockey families where Dad or relatives could keep up with their development outside of the pens?  Do some basic digging though and most have a some very respectable hockey resources outside of Cranberry.  Most in their own home.  To not fault of any of those families__ They’re taking advantage of their resources.  They know they have to.  Can’t leave it to the other guys.   Still begs the question how many non hockey families have showed up in Cranberry and had their kids ‘developed’ at Pens,  then moved on to junior or college, pros?   Yikes. 

  Big show of support for the mite and squirt parents who have the fortitude to avoid that place early on.  When the peer pressure and snake oil salesmen show up at their door.  Cutting off the talent flow to that program early on will help steer the change.  Also saving themselves a lot of grief__ and giving their kids opportunity elsewhere.  You don’t need to play on the 8th ranked squirt and peewee teams in the country for a kid to have success__ or even bantams and midgets.  You have to be developed.  
 

Somebody crowd fund a 5 star concession stand and 20 foot big screen for Harmarville.  New paint job.  Get some elite 5 year olds going there exclusively.  Give the place a chance and we’ll see how things pan out over 5 years.  I’ll tell you how it pans out.  The Pens don’t exist anymore. 

 

Look at their results!!  Best kept secret in town!!  Again whoever inevitably sends these clowns packing is deserving of a statue. 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[Whoosh]

On 7/8/2022 at 11:34 AM, hockey2020 said:

obviously there are exceptions. and yes, politics are involved at every level and every sport. that’s life. but the facts are as i stated above. many local kids there from the strong birth years. those are facts. can’t imagine there are ANY top 10 teams anywhere in the country on which every player is local to that organization. NONE. 

06 barons blow this statement out of the water. The only non-local kids on that team are from Pittsburgh....... oh and they went 3-0 against ppe last year by the way. (With ppe cast-offs and never were-s playing a HUGE role)

[ChiefKeef]

Cast offs and never were’s has to be sarcasm.  Those kids can play.  They just ran into the same problems as everyone else.  The hockey director and his smoke and mirrors masterclass in psychology.  Along with his band of fucc boi’s.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[nemesis8679]

They don't grow kids any different in Pittsburgh than they do in Cleveland. Or Tucson, or Tampa Bay. You can develop athletes anywhere, for any sport. Doesn't matter if parents are "hockey people" or "baseball people" - the coaches are or can be. It's a matter of doing it the right way, and who is doing it. Shaler high school pumped out baseball and wrestling prospects like a factory. That was coaching. Woodland Hills does it with football. That was coaching. There's other examples, all over the country. They're doing or have done it with an even smaller pool of kids to pick from- a single school district. Of course the kids need some natural athletic ability, and can develop more of it. But when you have to show up with some athleticism, be ready to eat right and work hard, AND come up with 10K-40K (not including any extra lessons) increasingly every year... that's just not doable for many of even the best athletes and the local pool you can draw from shrinks.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[ChiefKeef]

On 7/11/2022 at 12:02 AM, nemesis8679 said:

They don't grow kids any different in Pittsburgh than they do in Cleveland. Or Tucson, or Tampa Bay. You can develop athletes anywhere, for any sport. Doesn't matter if parents are "hockey people" or "baseball people" - the coaches are or can be. It's a matter of doing it the right way, and who is doing it. Shaler high school pumped out baseball and wrestling prospects like a factory. That was coaching. Woodland Hills does it with football. That was coaching. There's other examples, all over the country. They're doing or have done it with an even smaller pool of kids to pick from- a single school district. Of course the kids need some natural athletic ability, and can develop more of it. But when you have to show up with some athleticism, be ready to eat right and work hard, AND come up with 10K-40K (not including any extra lessons) increasingly every year... that's just not doable for many of even the best athletes and the local pool you can draw from shrinks.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

You’re absolutely right.  Which speaks to my point.  Why is a program with the state of the art facility,  trainer who’s the first to tell you he ran an NHL combine,  ‘the best coaching in the country’ who’s under the umbrella of a pro team so inefficient at developing players to have success past amateur hockey? 
 

Short answer is they don’t have to care.  They can enjoy their comfy positions without having to care lol  That program literally sucks,  everyone is so caught up whining about politics there__  That’s true,  but look at what they are doing on the ice.    Excel has kids skating in pairs passing back and forth to each other lol  As in the same drills your kids did in mites.  And they are allowed to get away with it… Why? 
 

Because they prefer upper middle class cattle who don’t know any better.  And they are rich in Upper middle class cattle who don’t know any better.  Cranberry and surrounding areas are chalk full of these types.  The cattle who are happy to go to work everyday and brag about how their squirt major team is ranked 3rd.  The kind of cattle who read coaching bios and think almost winning the hobey baker is relevant.  Cattle who when the program is done using the kid and bleeding the family dry___ they will just accept it and move on to North Pittsburgh while passively aggressively telling their new NP buddies how they’re kid got screwed over. 
 

Just ask them about the results lol  They have a playbook on manipulation and how to evade questions.  If they know you recognize it,  they will bully you.  So just stick with the facts.  How many of the commitments on the lobby TV’s are making the team?   Why do you receive so little commitments and draft selections to begin with?  How many of your commitments and draft selections are players who spent more than two seasons in your program? 
 

People will sit with their bank and examine verbiage around a mortgage for 2 months.  Mortgage having a finite result, a home.  Yet they will also throw checks at the clown show in Cranberry with a hope and a prayer__ in the amount that would pay the mortgage two times over when all is said and done. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 12, 2022 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, ChiefKeef said:

Just ask them about the results lol  They have a playbook on manipulation and how to evade questions.  If they know you recognize it,  they will bully you.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Marc Voit is a great example of the part I quoted from you. 

[ChiefKeef]

2 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Marc Voit is a great example of the part I quoted from you. 

I’ve heard the stories.  Marc knew too much.