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14 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, I heard nothing about it!  Wonder what is going on there!  Didn't they have that program for years?

 

14 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Wow, I heard nothing about it!  Wonder what is going on there!  Didn't they have that program for years?

They did have a team for years. I don’t know for sure why they folded this year. 

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Really!   What would impress you? Just curious as to why you have such a hate on!

not hate its the truth, drafts and tenders dont really mean anything more then that team owns your rights in that league and its an automatic to their main camp.  otherwise still means nothing. 

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At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here.

All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it.

With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind???

PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux.

The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink).

It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

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2 hours ago, Stinger17 said:

At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here.

All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it.

With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind???

PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux.

The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink).

It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

You make some valid points. But truth is there are faux AAA teams all over pgh. No one is saying PPE is the only real AAA team, I would add esmark and probably vengeance to the list of real AAA. The problem is organizations like preds and SHAHA adding AAA at various birth years when they don't have the talent and rank well under 40. They play the money game and sell extra A chasing parents a load of shit. It's sad and entertaining all at one's. 

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2 hours ago, Sticktime56 said:

You make some valid points. But truth is there are faux AAA teams all over pgh. No one is saying PPE is the only real AAA team, I would add esmark and probably vengeance to the list of real AAA. The problem is organizations like preds and SHAHA adding AAA at various birth years when they don't have the talent and rank well under 40. They play the money game and sell extra A chasing parents a load of shit. It's sad and entertaining all at one's. 

I think you are overselling Esmark and vengeance. You can make a case that Esmark is borderline AAA, but certainly not vengeance.

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6 hours ago, Stinger17 said:

At this point why would anyone consider PPE a organization that "serves" this area??? They are a Tier 1 program that operates here.

All of the organizations mentioned feed of off each other like canibals. PPE on your resume will get you at least one guranteed year at Esmark and probably two years at the Vengeance and so on down the line. Yes, none of these programs are perfect BUT they are still better than PAHL. Tier 1 is about exposure. Exposure to top competition and the opportunity to move up which is something that playing in a glorified house league cannot offer. Yes, parents brag...AAA parents sound like a$$holes to AA parents and AA parents sound the same to A parents...and so on. Get over it.

With all of the TIER 1 options in the Pittsburgh area the question people should be asking is "Why isn't PAHL developing players to fill all of these Tier 1 roster spots?" Cities with a lot less hockey history than Western PA have produced multiple competitive Tier 1 programs, think Nashville, Dallas, Florida (and yes I know they import). Why is Pittsburgh behind???

PAHL is the main feeder for "development" (cough!) for all of these programs based on volume at the younger ages. Yet it can be derived from comments across this board that the kids they are "developing" aren't good enough to move on to play "Legitimate" AAA. At the same time people suggest that kids stay in PAHL to be developed and save some money. For what??? To be "developed" enough to be accused of chasing an A or told they're not playing for a real AAA program?.....We should be grateful that there are opportunities other than PPE for local kids to play Tier 1. Please stop calling it faux.

The fact is none of these programs are really developing kids so much as it's the individual kids that put in the work and are being recruited to play and/or seek better competition on their own, both local and abroad. The really good ones play for free (wink, wink).

It's the old saying "there are hockey players and there are kids playing hockey". Hockey players want to be challenged, embrace adversity, put in the work and appreciate the journey. Kids playing hockey want to be with their buddies, have snacks, show off their participation trophies and make up excuses why they didn't make that FAUX AAA team. Figure out which one your kids are and make peace with it...

If you are not playing on a team ranked in the top 40 you are irrelevant anyway.  No exposure.  If you are good enough they will find you

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8 hours ago, Icebucket said:

I think you are overselling Esmark and vengeance. You can make a case that Esmark is borderline AAA, but certainly not vengeance.

In my experience vegennce can compete at AAA level depending on the birth year, but I would agree not all their BY teams are true AAA. 

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31 minutes ago, Sticktime56 said:

In my experience vegennce can compete at AAA level depending on the birth year, but I would agree not all their BY teams are true AAA. 

A look at MHR for 2008 and below would back up that assessment 

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In my opinion a top 50 or top 60 team could be considered AAA. Not sure why some people think you have to be top 30 or 40 to be considered AAA. This isn't the 90s or early 2000s anymore. The quality of hockey and depth of US players is significantly better than it has ever been. That includes Pittsburgh.

The old school guys that complain about everything keep dropping the number of what should be considered AAA in order to justify their opinions that Pittsburgh hockey sucks and this area can really only have one AAA per age group. Maybe that was the case when they were coming up or their kids were coming up, but it's just not the case anymore.

For most birth years, I think Pittsburgh can support three AAA teams. Some weaker years, maybe just two. Five+ is a bit absurd and does nothing but weaken PAHL and make hockey more expensive.

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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

In my opinion a top 50 or top 60 team could be considered AAA. Not sure why some people think you have to be top 30 or 40 to be considered AAA. This isn't the 90s or early 2000s anymore. The quality of hockey and depth of US players is significantly better than it has ever been. That includes Pittsburgh.

The old school guys that complain about everything keep dropping the number of what should be considered AAA in order to justify their opinions that Pittsburgh hockey sucks and this area can really only have one AAA per age group. Maybe that was the case when they were coming up or their kids were coming up, but it's just not the case anymore.

For most birth years, I think Pittsburgh can support three AAA teams. Some weaker years, maybe just two. Five+ is a bit absurd and does nothing but weaken PAHL and make hockey more expensive.

I agree, and the top organization outside of PPE, meaning esmark and vengeance can and have produced a few good real AAA teams. Organization likes preds and SHAHA going independent and claiming they are AAA is what is the real problem and why pgh hockey is becoming watered down and a joke. Preds apparently declared AAA for BY teams from 2013 to whol way up to 18U and none of these teams are AAA and Maybe a few players on those teams are AAA grade players. SHAHA is trying to follow suit and it's just bad. I guess If parents are ok traveling alot and going into debt to say their 13 year plays on a AAA team then they probably need a reality check. 

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2 hours ago, forbin said:

So if a team declares AAA and plays against other "legitimate" AAA teams, and beats them, would you not consider them to be AAA? 

Just asking

I don't think 1 win against a legitimate AAA team could make any determination. What would make that determination would be AAA talent on any given team, as well as some consistent track record of beating legitimate AAA teams. Everyone knows 1 win is irrelevant, everyone can get lucky once during a season. Hell I watched a A team scrimmage a AAA and win due to bad reffs and a lucky day ha! 

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3 hours ago, Sticktime56 said:

I agree, and the top organization outside of PPE, meaning esmark and vengeance can and have produced a few good real AAA teams. Organization likes preds and SHAHA going independent and claiming they are AAA is what is the real problem and why pgh hockey is becoming watered down and a joke. Preds apparently declared AAA for BY teams from 2013 to whol way up to 18U and none of these teams are AAA and Maybe a few players on those teams are AAA grade players. SHAHA is trying to follow suit and it's just bad. I guess If parents are ok traveling alot and going into debt to say their 13 year plays on a AAA team then they probably need a reality check. 

Ask those from last year's 06 Vengeance if SHAHA is considered a AAA team, as they were beaten by them all three times they played.

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27 minutes ago, Sticktime56 said:

I don't think 1 will against a legitimate AAA team could make any determination. What would make that determination would be AAA talent on any given team, as well as some consistency track record of beating legitimate AAA teams. Everyone knows 1 win is irrelevant, everyone can get lucky once during a season. He'll I watched a A team scrimmage a AAA and win due to bad reffs and a lucky day ha! 

I never said one win. I'm talking about certain "faux" AAA teams beating multiple different "legitimate" AAA teams, multiple different times over the past few years.... 

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29 minutes ago, forbin said:

I never said one win. I'm talking about certain "faux" AAA teams beating multiple different "legitimate" AAA teams, multiple different times over the past few years.... 

I'm not sure what team or teams your referring to ? Sure every organization and BY is different. Vengeance 08s are an example of a legitimate AAA team but that's not to say the 06s are worthy of the AAA status at vengeance. The original point I was making is that places like SHAHA and preds declaring AAA at all/most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey not to mention extorting parents and selling some phony nonsense dream to make them think their kid is AAA. 

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16 hours ago, Sticktime56 said:

I'm not sure what team or teams your referring to ? Sure every organization and BY is different. Vengeance 08s are an example of a legitimate AAA team but that's not to say the 06s are worthy of the AAA status at vengeance. The original point I was making is that places like SHAHA and preds declaring AAA at all/most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey not to mention extorting parents and selling some phony nonsense dream to make them think their kid is AAA. 

Now here we go.  

Being on this thread for almost four years now, it took this long to finally get to the bottom of what is "ruining hockey" and leading to the demise of the sport in western PA.  It's not PPE Black teams, not PPE importing kids from out of state or forcing kids to attend NC and pay another $5K for the Excel program, it's not Esmark adding out of country players to teams while cutting locals just days before the roster deadline, and it's not PAHL teams leaving to play an independent schedule.  Nope, none of that is true.

Here it is, and I quote - "SHAHA and Preds declaring AAA at all / most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey" in western PA.  

Props to @Sticktime56 for providing this gem.

Edited by fafa fohi
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1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

Now here we go.  

Being on this thread for almost four years now, it took this long to finally get to the bottom of what is "ruining hockey" and leading to the demise of the sport in western PA.  It's not PPE Black teams, not PPE importing kids from out of state or forcing kids to attend NC and pay another $5K for the Excel program, it's not Esmark adding out of country players to teams while cutting locals just days before the roster deadline, and it's not PAHL teams leaving to play an independent schedule.  Nope, none of that is true.

Here it is, and I quote - "SHAHA and Preds declaring AAA at all / most birth years is absurd and ruining hockey" in western PA.  

Props to @Sticktime56 for providing this gem.

All of things you added to the list are accurate as well. I was simply mentioning that certain local organizations declare AAA and are faux and this Is a part of what's hurting pgh hockey in more ways than one. No one can deny that. I'm not suggesting it's the only problem. 

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Pittsburgh is not a hockey community.  Pittsburgh is an AGENDA community.  Parents have an agenda for their child.  They shop around until they find a team that checks all the boxes.

Just put the damn kids on the ice and let them figure out who the best are.  If you ask them they will tell you.  This will never happen in this area.  We simply don't have enough quality coaches to go around.  I don't know any organizations that have quality coaches with a real background in hockey at every birthyear.  You get pockets of teams at orgaizations because they have a good coach at a certain year (most likely his kid is on the team).  

Say what you want about PPE but if you have the money it is still the best game in town.  I'm not saying they don't have problems but top to bottom you can't beat them locally.  

The PARENTS are the problem, always have been always will be.

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On 8/18/2022 at 10:03 AM, RJUSHL said:

In my opinion a top 50 or top 60 team could be considered AAA. Not sure why some people think you have to be top 30 or 40 to be considered AAA. This isn't the 90s or early 2000s anymore. The quality of hockey and depth of US players is significantly better than it has ever been. That includes Pittsburgh.

The old school guys that complain about everything keep dropping the number of what should be considered AAA in order to justify their opinions that Pittsburgh hockey sucks and this area can really only have one AAA per age group. Maybe that was the case when they were coming up or their kids were coming up, but it's just not the case anymore.

For most birth years, I think Pittsburgh can support three AAA teams. Some weaker years, maybe just two. Five+ is a bit absurd and does nothing but weaken PAHL and make hockey more expensive.

This is somewhat wrong. Tier 3 juniors has ripped AAA midget apart. 16 & 18U midget is pretty diluted these days. 
 

 

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