Is there a "good" Youth Hockey Organization in Western Pa?

[hockeyisgreat]

I hear all these negatives about Programs in western pa!  Where should I take my kid for the best coaching and organization that is fair?  I hear the least negatives about North Pittsburgh Wildcats and Artic Foxes!  Are they the best big organizations? Just looking for opinions!  Those 2 also seem to be the least interested in the "extra A".

[Saucey]

I would add Mt Lebo based on how they are to play against... typically parents and players are not jagoffs But I think they get hammered by one sheet of ice and all the chasers south. They don't retain good players. Maybe good at the younger ages?

[Saucey]

And also.... depends on your kid and what fits with your family. Practice times, etc

[Lucky17]

I’d throw Renegades in the mix, and I don’t hear much negativity around South Pitt, but I could be wrong.

[TigerMom]

Foxes are a very good organization from an administration standpoint and you get lots of ice time with them. They also offer many different fundraising opportunities to offset costs. Where they lack is player development. Coaches don’t seem to be monitored on how practices are administered/planned. They have an ACE coordinator but not sure if there’s any “coaching of the coaches” there. If you get a less committed coach you could be in for a long season. 

[Lucky17]

I would say the same is true for every organization in the country, some coaches are better than others and it depends on who you get

[fafa fohi]

Besides the obvious - coaching and player development, skills sessions, travel schedule, cost, games played and schedule.......I would also throw ice time into the mix.  Find out to see how many practice slots a week are offered, how many are shared vs hybrid vs full ice and at what times.  Getting full ice sounds great, but a slot at 6am on a Saturday or Sunday morning in not what I would call ideal.  And many teams have a fixed practice schedule - same day and time of the week, which makes things easier.

Edited April 24, 2022 by fafa fohi

[hockeyisgreat]

Next question?  Which is the biggest Organization in Western PA?  Does anyone actually know? From ADM to 18U.  North Pitt, Allegheny, or Foxes?  I think it would be one of those 3.

[nemesis8679]

Based on teams played with or played against, or what the majority of parents say... I've never heard a bad thing about Steel City orArtic Foxes. 

I would steer clear of SHAHA, Allegheny, Armstrong, Yetis, Vipers, and North Pittsburgh. 

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

Based on teams played with or played against, or what the majority of parents say... I've never heard a bad thing about Steel City orArtic Foxes. 

I would steer clear of SHAHA, Allegheny, Armstrong, Yetis, Vipers, and North Pittsburgh. 

And I would never recommend the Renegades. To each his own.

[nemesis8679]

4 minutes ago, Saucey said:

And I would never recommend the Renegades. To each his own.

Could I ask why? 

[Carl Racki]

I would say depends where you live.  Crazy to drive past 5 rinks to play at another.  Foxes and North Pitt are a nice place to start at the mite level as they have a lot of kids and your child should play with/against similar talent. I believe RMU got 350 kids at mite a year back in the day.  Guessing similar now.

  The problem with the smaller organizations is they do not draw the numbers so there can be a huge gap between players. Some people like birth year so they can play with similar groups of kids.  Some do not because they feel they need to play up a birth year to have good competition.  The problem with mites at UPMC is once you move to squirt you may be starting over and looking for a new rink to play at.

  Allegheny is probably a pretty good place at the younger ages as well.  The teams at PIA (Vipers/Viperstars) not sure I would do.  Never had a personal bad experience but it seems like they do not keep players/teams. Ice renegades are also hit or miss at the young ages.  I have seen some ridiculous coaches there at the mite age back in the day.  I guess it just depends who the coaches are and who is running it now.  

[aaaahockey]

I think in general North Pittsburgh.   Renegades I would lump in with SHAHA and some of the other "rougher" places.   Lebo has the best parents but as pointed out above they have one of the worst ice situations in Pittsburgh.  

[miked]

i just want to point out that the Foxes do NOT have a mite program. The mite program is through RMU Island Sports Complex. and as pointed out above it is very large, which is nice because they can break the kids into skill level tiers. when my son played there they had 7 tiers with 4 teams in each tier. i think it's down to 5 tiers now, but it's still big enough to keep large skill discrepancies from having to play each other. but anyway, the point of bringing this up is that if you are looking to sign up for the mite program at RMU (which is the Foxes home ice) you would not want to go to the Foxes website and register for the tryouts they are currently holding. You would want to go to RMU and register for their tryouts, which happen in the fall. It's been years so i don't want to speak for the current rules, but i would contact them now and find out the eligibility requirements for the Mite program. When my son did it, he had to pass a learn to play program. they have summer sessions so kids can be ready to go in the fall.

[Lucky17]

3 hours ago, Carl Racki said:I have seen some ridiculous coaches there at the mite age back in the day.  I guess it just depends who the coaches are and who is running it now.  

Ridiculous is what way @Carl Racki?

[hockey57410]

23 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I hear all these negatives about Programs in western pa!  Where should I take my kid for the best coaching and organization that is fair?  I hear the least negatives about North Pittsburgh Wildcats and Artic Foxes!  Are they the best big organizations? Just looking for opinions!  Those 2 also seem to be the least interested in the "extra A".

Depends on what you want.  NP and Jim Black run a good rink.  Foxes are big organization, but they cater to the casual player and don't develop kids or work any harder for talented groups.  Basically foxes treat AA down to Low B all the same.  

Renegades are the opposite of Foxes and they have a good mite program, same with the Predators.

Again, as everyone else said, play where you're close to.  It really doesn't matter until you hit U16 anyway.  

[forbin]

1 hour ago, hockey57410 said:

 Foxes are big organization, but they cater to the casual player and don't develop kids or work any harder for talented groups.  Basically foxes treat AA down to Low B all the same.  

100% agree. This is the reason we left.

[Lucky17]

14 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

I have seen some ridiculous coaches there at the mite age back in the day.  I guess it just depends who the coaches are and who is running it now.  

Sorry, I completely botched my previous message...

Ridiculous in what way @Carl Racki?  That could go either way on interpretation.  

[Carl Racki]

13 hours ago, Lucky17 said:

Sorry, I completely botched my previous message...

Ridiculous in what way @Carl Racki?  That could go either way on interpretation. 

By ridiculous I mean screaming and yelling at their own mite players/refs,  using poor language and being thrown out of mite games for it.  I didn't really want to go there with specifics.  Like I said hopefully it didn't happen often and doesn't any more.  It was a while ago but I had seen it a few times.  I didn't even have kids playing in those games.  Mine were playing in a separate game but it was so bad it caught my attention.  I saw it a few times.  To crazy for me at the mite level and hopefully it doesn't happen anymore. It was a bad look for the organization.  

[forbin]

11 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

By ridiculous I mean screaming and yelling at their own mite players/refs,  using poor language and being thrown out of mite games for it.  I didn't really want to go there with specifics.  Like I said hopefully it didn't happen often and doesn't any more.  It was a while ago but I had seen it a few times.  I didn't even have kids playing in those games.  Mine were playing in a separate game but it was so bad it caught my attention.  I saw it a few times.  To crazy for me at the mite level and hopefully it doesn't happen anymore. It was a bad look for the organization.  

Unfortunately that is EVERYWHERE with mites these days. Coaches and parents are completely nuts. I first hand saw the following this past season:

-SCIR coach jumped over the boards to yell at ref 

-66er parents ridiculing players and making fun of opposing teams parents in stands at tournament

-PREDS coach tossed for stepping on to the ice to yell at ref

-SHAHA Dad tossed for walking onto the ice and pushing ref

- Allegheny/SCIR coaches screaming at each other on bench

- Allegheny parents calling player multiple obscenities' repeatedly 

-LCL coaches instructing their kids to take out opposing players (confirmed to be true after speaking with players after game)

-RMU coaches  getting tossed for arguing with ref

-SCIR dad getting tossed for screaming at ref 

All of these at the red level and are 100% true. It was absolutely insane and it's no wonder why nobody wants to ref mite games anymore. 

 

[Lifelongbender]

On 4/24/2022 at 12:59 PM, hockeyisgreat said:

Next question?  Which is the biggest Organization in Western PA?  Does anyone actually know? From ADM to 18U.  North Pitt, Allegheny, or Foxes?  I think it would be one of those 3.

For the last couple years the biggest organization has actually been SHAHA based on the number of teams.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Lifelongbender
clarifying language

[RJUSHL]

8 minutes ago, Lifelongbender said:

For the last couple years the biggest organization has actually been SHAHA based on the number of teams.

It's amazing they can do that with one sheet of ice.

[fafa fohi]

3 hours ago, Lifelongbender said:

For the last couple years the biggest organization has actually been SHAHA based on the number of teams.

Allegheny had the most teams last season, with NP and Shaha just below them - all had 20+ teams.

[2muchAAAinWPA]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  There are lots of good organizations, in fact a case could be made for any of them, depending on who you talk to.  In 8 years of youth hockey, Ive learned that no organization is perfect.  Some are run better than others, differ in size, and differ depending on facility they use.  A larger organization has better quality of skill levels of teams, while smaller ones have tiers within teams.  It all comes down to you and your child and the level of play they want. 

There are bad people running orgs or coaching kids, i like to think there are more good than bad.  But like all things in life, a negative experience gets more attention than a positive one.  Sure there are bad people that create that bad experience for you but there is always a place to play hockey for your child.  It depends on their level of passion of the game.  Look for the good in a program, not dwell on the bad.  Move on and find the place thats right for your child and your experience.  

As parents we get too caught up on how many A's are tied to the team we try out on.  Ive seen parents throw other parents under the bus to help benefit their kid to get on a team.  An organization is part what makes it up (coaches, players, parents, managers, board) and part what you make of it.  

If you arent happy with a coach, there are other coaches and teams.  If you dont like how a board is run, then volunteer your time to help drive it to be better or look for another place to play.  The same people that complain are ones that dont know or understand the challenges that come with running a program of kids.

 

Every organization has its good times and bad times, and it can be good at one age and bad at another.  The underlining problem is patience and acceptance.  Kids develop and grow at different rates and times.  Your kid could play AA one year and A the next.  It all depends on them.  Parents drive the need to move up in letters.  Let the kid earn their spot. Sometimes they have to fail to grow/succeed.  

 

The only organizations that i feel are in a "bad" spot are the ones that promote AA or AAA teams that arent AA/AAA for sake of money.  It doesnt do hockey good to sell people on AA and AAA if the talent isnt there.  Pittsburgh doesnt have 5 teams worth of AAA talent and not all orgs can field a AA BY team.  Just not enough. 

The other thing that parents have to understand is the coaches arent there to develop your kids individual skills.  Too often i see parents complaining about lack of development from coaches.  Coaches are there to coach the team.  To coach systems and develop chemistry / team play.  There isnt enough time to coach to develop every player.  Thats up to the player and their parents.  Conditioning and lessons is how individual skills are developed.  A player will only develop so much from coaching in practice and games.  They learn by game experiences and extra effort they put in away from the team via lessons and off ice conditioning.  I will say as far as a coaches involvement with development, they have to give the child a chance or ice/game time to get those experiences.  But to really develop it takes the extra stuff, lessons and such.  

The topic opens up a loaded discussion and im sure I could go on and on, but i wont.  If anything, the best advice i can give is to tell anyone, remove the emotion from it. Step back and look at things without the emotion and speak in facts when evaluating an org you are in or looking at joining.  Control your emotions and feeling and look at the pros not just the cons.  

 

[PUCKCOVID19]

12 minutes ago, 2muchAAAinWPA said:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  There are lots of good organizations, in fact a case could be made for any of them, depending on who you talk to.  In 8 years of youth hockey, Ive learned that no organization is perfect.  Some are run better than others, differ in size, and differ depending on facility they use.  A larger organization has better quality of skill levels of teams, while smaller ones have tiers within teams.  It all comes down to you and your child and the level of play they want. 

There are bad people running orgs or coaching kids, i like to think there are more good than bad.  But like all things in life, a negative experience gets more attention than a positive one.  Sure there are bad people that create that bad experience for you but there is always a place to play hockey for your child.  It depends on their level of passion of the game.  Look for the good in a program, not dwell on the bad.  Move on and find the place thats right for your child and your experience.  

As parents we get too caught up on how many A's are tied to the team we try out on.  Ive seen parents throw other parents under the bus to help benefit their kid to get on a team.  An organization is part what makes it up (coaches, players, parents, managers, board) and part what you make of it.  

If you arent happy with a coach, there are other coaches and teams.  If you dont like how a board is run, then volunteer your time to help drive it to be better or look for another place to play.  The same people that complain are ones that dont know or understand the challenges that come with running a program of kids.

 

Every organization has its good times and bad times, and it can be good at one age and bad at another.  The underlining problem is patience and acceptance.  Kids develop and grow at different rates and times.  Your kid could play AA one year and A the next.  It all depends on them.  Parents drive the need to move up in letters.  Let the kid earn their spot. Sometimes they have to fail to grow/succeed.  

 

The only organizations that i feel are in a "bad" spot are the ones that promote AA or AAA teams that arent AA/AAA for sake of money.  It doesnt do hockey good to sell people on AA and AAA if the talent isnt there.  Pittsburgh doesnt have 5 teams worth of AAA talent and not all orgs can field a AA BY team.  Just not enough. 

The other thing that parents have to understand is the coaches arent there to develop your kids individual skills.  Too often i see parents complaining about lack of development from coaches.  Coaches are there to coach the team.  To coach systems and develop chemistry / team play.  There isnt enough time to coach to develop every player.  Thats up to the player and their parents.  Conditioning and lessons is how individual skills are developed.  A player will only develop so much from coaching in practice and games.  They learn by game experiences and extra effort they put in away from the team via lessons and off ice conditioning.  I will say as far as a coaches involvement with development, they have to give the child a chance or ice/game time to get those experiences.  But to really develop it takes the extra stuff, lessons and such.  

The topic opens up a loaded discussion and im sure I could go on and on, but i wont.  If anything, the best advice i can give is to tell anyone, remove the emotion from it. Step back and look at things without the emotion and speak in facts when evaluating an org you are in or looking at joining.  Control your emotions and feeling and look at the pros not just the cons.  

 

Pittsburgh dooesnt even have enough talent for 5 real aa team at most BY. be honest with yourself...