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Pitt leaves CHMA


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Pitt has left the CHMA to go  the ESCHL.  24 of Pitt's 30 games this season will be against teams that were ranked in the top 25 at some point last year or qualified for Nationals  including defending champ Lindenwood  and perennial powerhouse's Adrian and Stonybrook.

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Doesn’t sound like a good move for pitt - they don’t have the program to compete against the top teams. While they have a nice team,  It’s just the reality. They didn’t even win the chma this year. I’m sure the schedule will help their ranking but that could also backfire. 
 

http://eschlhockey.com

this league ? It doesn’t seem that much different than the chma. Two top 20 ranked teams who are normally good Stoney & Niagara, Am I looking at the wrong league ? That travel will undoubtedly raise the cost significantly to play on that team.  CSCHL is one of the best & much closer if they wanted to try to move. 

this screams - parents getting involved - can’t play local kids they have played against during youth hockey. 

 

 

Edited by Danner27
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With Pitt joining the ESCHL there will be 5 teams that were ranked in the top 25 at the end of last season and Drexel had a down year. In the CHMA there was one: Pitt. Also, the CHMA is the only conference in D1 that sends its playoff winner to Nationals. Pitt was 26-1-1 in the regular season the last 2 years they played.

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16 minutes ago, Law said:

With Pitt joining the ESCHL there will be 5 teams that were ranked in the top 25 at the end of last season and Drexel had a down year. In the CHMA there was one: Pitt. Also, the CHMA is the only conference in D1 that sends its playoff winner to Nationals. Pitt was 26-1-1 in the regular season the last 2 years they played.

And somehow Pitt couldn't get it done in the CHMA Playoffs to earn the bid against IUP or John Carroll ? 

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4 minutes ago, Law said:

With Pitt joining the ESCHL there will be 5 teams that were ranked in the top 25 at the end of last season and Drexel had a down year. In the CHMA there was one: Pitt. Also, the CHMA is the only conference in D1 that sends its playoff winner to Nationals. Pitt was 26-1-1 in the regular season the last 2 years they played.

LMAO - this really smells like parent involvement - to good to play local teams.

At this stage it’s nothing more than beer league but hey - let’s travel around the east coast to play. Rmu was a top 25 team ? 
 

What is pitt’s club team current season fees ? How high will it skyrocket to now ? The price of a charter bus has doubled since last season. 

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1 hour ago, HSFBLJ said:

Danner, why are you so salty about this?  Are you paying for the bus?

I’m making a point - college is expensive as it is. Education should be the priority. The cost of the club team will definitely rise tremendously from this move. It’s a club sport, not an ncaa sport. 
 

I texted a few folks, as I suspected there are parents behind this.  The list is long, a few esmark flunkies who’s tenders never worked out, usphl vengeance junior rejects along with an incoming freshman family who’s father was always tossing money at yuri. @Law is obviously one of these parents. 

Edited by Danner27
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32 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I’m making a point - college is expensive as it is. Education should be the priority. The cost of the club team will definitely rise tremendously from this move. It’s a club sport, not an ncaa sport. 
 

I texted a few folks, as I suspected there are parents behind this.  The list is long, a few esmark flunkies who’s tenders never worked out, usphl vengeance junior rejects along with an incoming freshman family who’s father was always tossing money at yuri. @Law is obviously one of these parents. 

very true. but 1/maybe 10 remark tenders ever work out. and the freshman daddy heard he spear headed this 

 

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What I don’t get is the hatred for Esmark. Yes kids that get tendered don’t always make the team. But there are kids that do, and therefore they are more successful than a lot of other teams around the country that don’t advance kids. There are a few Esmark kids playing D1 right now. And a couple more that are on the cusp. Not every AAA team is going to send all their players to D1. 

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1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

What I don’t get is the hatred for Esmark. Yes kids that get tendered don’t always make the team. But there are kids that do, and therefore they are more successful than a lot of other teams around the country that don’t advance kids. There are a few Esmark kids playing D1 right now. And a couple more that are on the cusp. Not every AAA team is going to send all their players to D1. 

I don’t dislike esmark, I’ve always said here if you are not playing for ppe esmark is really the only other real tier 2 option for midget in western pa.

what I dislike about esmark - every birth year their is a small group of parents that pony up extra cash, suck up and do manage to get some input with the team. 
 

this pitt situation happens to be backed - pushed by two of those previous esmark parents. 

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3 hours ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

very true. but 1/maybe 10 remark tenders ever work out. and the freshman daddy heard he spear headed this 

 

Unfortunately I too was told this dad has a lot to do with what’s going on at Pitt. it wasn’t his idea, the club has had their eyes on trying to recruit more out of state players but the talks started this season when a player who didn’t make it in the nahl  joined the pitt club team mid season.  Helped enable the situation. Now the freshman parent that dumped so much money down Yuri’s throat only for his kid to finally sit the bench at 18U.  here you go - parents putting influence on a freaking club hockey team. there are two 03 esmark kids, if they don’t make the nahl this season (they won’t) talking about joining pitt for the second semester. Let’s get the band back together, travel the north east like it’s still the esmark days, grab me a beer! 

Edited by Danner27
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First of all, this move was made solely by the Pitt Coaches, who done a great job recruiting (mostly the best High School kids from Western Pa) and elevated their status with a super schedule outside of the CHMA. The CHMA Schools (Other than RMU IUP AND JCU) have not provided a challenge to Pitt during the regular season and cemented the decision. 

Pitt will succeed in taking a step up in competition (with additional costs that they are already paying). Not sure they can compete with Adrian and Lindenwood, but we'll find that out ? Pitt by the way has not won nor earned the CHMA National Playoff Bid since 2015 and with the best program by far during that time is an underachievement and disappointment I am sure. 

The reality of players from the NAHL playing ACHA M1 Hockey has come and gone. Be ready for a return of Slippery Rock in two years to the CHMA. 

 

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9 hours ago, Pa Hockey said:

 

The reality of players from the NAHL playing ACHA M1 Hockey has come and gone. Be ready for a return of Slippery Rock in two years to the CHMA. 

 

I don’t understand this statement - a lot of nahl kids end up in the acha. I’ll point to a player at pitt that joined mid season after being tendered various times, being cut in the ncdc then sitting in Johnstown half the year. 
 

unfortunately Jeff, there is parent involvement with Pitt. Yes, as I stated the program was looking to go this direction, like anything else it needed enablers & backers. It now has them. You know one of these parents well to boot! 
 

we all get it when parents get involved at the youth level, but at the college club level now ? 
 

To top it off - if you follow state politics, there is a possibility Pitt will lose their state funding as a university. This will drive up instate tuition roughly 10k a year, per kid. Wonder if these parents driving things even realize this ? It wouldn’t effect out of state kids but it’s a few local parents trying to drive the bus with this situation. If the club team was $1500-$2000 like most, that number will push to $4000+ with the current economic landscape, travel pitt is trying to plan. Who really wants to pay that kind of money to play beer league hockey ? I’ll tell you who - the same parent type that try to drive every birth year at a club like esmark where the kids are good but not good enough. The same parent type letting their kids waste time with pay2play tier 3 junior hockey once they are out of HS. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I don’t understand this statement - a lot of nahl kids end up in the acha. I’ll point to a player at pitt that joined mid season after being tendered various times, being cut in the ncdc then sitting in Johnstown half the year. 
 

unfortunately Jeff, there is parent involvement with Pitt. Yes, as I stated the program was looking to go this direction, like anything else it needed enablers & backers. It now has them. You know one of these parents well to boot! 
 

we all get it when parents get involved at the youth level, but at the college club level now ? 
 

To top it off - if you follow state politics, there is a possibility Pitt will lose their state funding as a university. This will drive up instate tuition roughly 10k a year, per kid. Wonder if these parents driving things even realize this ? It wouldn’t effect out of state kids but it’s a few local parents trying to drive the bus with this situation. If the club team was $1500-$2000 like most, that number will push to $4000+ with the current economic landscape, travel pitt is trying to plan. Who really wants to pay that kind of money to play beer league hockey ? I’ll tell you who - the same parent type that try to drive every birth year at a club like esmark where the kids are good but not good enough. The same parent type letting their kids waste time with pay2play tier 3 junior hockey once they are out of HS. 


 

 

ACHA hockey is beer league? I wonder if you have ever played hockey at any level when you make statements like that? I played club hockey 30 years ago and we would have killed any beer league team around. And the same goes for today’s club hockey teams. You seem to think any hockey not at the top level is junk. Why is that?  You bash “faux” AAA teams that have talented kids playing on them. Sure they may not be the best of the best but they are good. And the same goes for club hockey, they may not be the best of the best but there are a lot of talented kids playing on those teams. 
 

And you continue to make the statements about Tier 3 juniors being a joke. Why is that? I understand that those leagues are not producing a bunch of NCAA players, but some do make it. And who are you to judge others decisions to continue their hockey career? I know of a few kids that play tier 3 that have no aspirations of playing college hockey, but they love the game and want to continue to play competitive hockey. Also, playing tier 3 is an experience. Kids get to travel around on a team bus, make new friends, meet new people and see new places. It is a life experience that they may never have the opportunity to do again. Why do you have a problem with that? Do you also have a problem with recent high school graduates spending money to travel around the world before they start their lives? 
 

I really would like to know what your experience is playing? And also why you are so judgmental of kids doing something they want to. Are you mad because you didn’t have the same opportunities? I just don’t get it. 

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34 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

 

ACHA hockey is beer league? I wonder if you have ever played hockey at any level when you make statements like that? I played club hockey 30 years ago and we would have killed any beer league team around. And the same goes for today’s club hockey teams. You seem to think any hockey not at the top level is junk. Why is that?  You bash “faux” AAA teams that have talented kids playing on them. Sure they may not be the best of the best but they are good. And the same goes for club hockey, they may not be the best of the best but there are a lot of talented kids playing on those teams. 
 

And you continue to make the statements about Tier 3 juniors being a joke. Why is that? I understand that those leagues are not producing a bunch of NCAA players, but some do make it. And who are you to judge others decisions to continue their hockey career? I know of a few kids that play tier 3 that have no aspirations of playing college hockey, but they love the game and want to continue to play competitive hockey. Also, playing tier 3 is an experience. Kids get to travel around on a team bus, make new friends, meet new people and see new places. It is a life experience that they may never have the opportunity to do again. Why do you have a problem with that? Do you also have a problem with recent high school graduates spending money to travel around the world before they start their lives? 
 

I really would like to know what your experience is playing? And also why you are so judgmental of kids doing something they want to. Are you mad because you didn’t have the same opportunities? I just don’t get it. 

Have you ever watched the top beer league at ice castle ? Club hockey is CLUB hockey - Younger beer league.

tier 3 junior hockey - 20u varsity hockey. Half the kids come front varsity hockey or AA at best. That’s not real junior hockey. 
 

Not denying some “faux” aaa teams have a few good players - your owns words above are like mine - good but not good enough. 

Edited by Danner27
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"Good but not good enough" so freaking what? Jeez, didn't u get hugged enough as a kid. You might be the most negative person I've ever come across. And you're right, I am a parent; of a 41 yr old. I am pretty sure I know who you are and part of the reason I started this post is because last spring when I posted about Pitt going to Nationals your comments were " they play in a weak conference, can't compete with the big boys, etc. So I knew when I posted about this u would have something negative to say and u never disappoint. People, do what u think is best for your kids, please don't listen to the negative stuff on here. Make your own decisions, spend YOUR $ how u want. Enjoy traveling with your kids and enjoy watching them play. Keep in mind that there are more neurosurgeons in the US then proffesional hockey players. And if your son plays ACHA in college hope that he plays at a local college so u can watch him/her play the game they love no matter if it's M1,2 or 3. Geez Danner, don't poison these people with your negative , know everything BS. BTW, why don't you tell us how your son's career ended. Lighten up bud!

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39 minutes ago, Law said:

"Good but not good enough" so freaking what? Jeez, didn't u get hugged enough as a kid. You might be the most negative person I've ever come across. And you're right, I am a parent; of a 41 yr old. I am pretty sure I know who you are and part of the reason I started this post is because last spring when I posted about Pitt going to Nationals your comments were " they play in a weak conference, can't compete with the big boys, etc. So I knew when I posted about this u would have something negative to say and u never disappoint. People, do what u think is best for your kids, please don't listen to the negative stuff on here. Make your own decisions, spend YOUR $ how u want. Enjoy traveling with your kids and enjoy watching them play. Keep in mind that there are more neurosurgeons in the US then proffesional hockey players. And if your son plays ACHA in college hope that he plays at a local college so u can watch him/her play the game they love no matter if it's M1,2 or 3. Geez Danner, don't poison these people with your negative , know everything BS. BTW, why don't you tell us how your son's career ended. Lighten up bud!

What’s bizarre - half of what you said in the end is what I’ve been preaching on here for a long time. 

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I think you have alot of knowledge to pass on but you are so negative about it. Everyone has to learn for themselves. One other thing; I can guarantee you that there isn't and hasn't been any parental interference at Pitt. It's college for crying out loud, kids would be pissed and embarrassed if their parents interfered. And they would be gone! That is 100% wrong. Take that as the gospel. Danner, parents are looking for guidance; people like us can help them w/o squashing their hopes. 

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14 hours ago, Law said:

I think you have alot of knowledge to pass on but you are so negative about it. Everyone has to learn for themselves. One other thing; I can guarantee you that there isn't and hasn't been any parental interference at Pitt. It's college for crying out loud, kids would be pissed and embarrassed if their parents interfered. And they would be gone! That is 100% wrong. Take that as the gospel. Danner, parents are looking for guidance; people like us can help them w/o squashing their hopes. 

Sometimes I wish I didn’t have the knowledge, it makes me enjoy the sport less these days. I watch my niece now, they are talking about trying out for PPE.  PPE has been in contact. I ask my brother in law - remember what both my boys went through, all the money, my oldest not having much of a childhood ? It’s like He forgot, or more like he doesn’t want to remember. On the bright side, maybe the woman’s side of hockey is not as hardcore but I’m sure the politics are there. The money definitely is.  The landscape has changed for the worse since my boys have been done. The advisor stuff didn’t start to blow up until my youngest last year or two. 

if I communicate what I found about the pitt program wrong, I’m sorry. Forgive my weakness with expressing my thoughts as I age. Maybe the words backers or enablers - better yet boosters for a club sport. Regardless of the term, it’s there. 

Edited by Danner27
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59 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Sometimes I wish I didn’t have the knowledge, it makes me enjoy the sport less these days. I watch my niece now, they are talking about trying out for PPE.  PPE has been in contact. I ask my brother in law - remember what both my boys went through, all the money, my oldest not having much of a childhood ? It’s like He forgot, or more like he doesn’t want to remember. On the bright side, maybe the woman’s side of hockey is not as hardcore but I’m sure the politics are there. The money definitely is.  The landscape has changed for the worse since my boys have been done. The advisor stuff didn’t start to blow up until my youngest last year or two. 

if I communicate what I found about the pitt program wrong, I’m sorry. Forgive my weakness with expressing my thoughts as I age. Maybe the words backers or enablers - better yet boosters for a club sport. Regardless of the term, it’s there. 


Honestly, I think Danner might have a good point here, with the comment about the local ACHA D1 hockey being "not good enough".

Before CHMA formed, the ACHA D1 schools in the area were WVU, Duquesne, W&J, SRU, RMU, Mercyhurst, and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting. Pitt and IUP were in D2. Not sure about Youngstown State. Those schools played in 2 or 3 different conferences. I want to say one was the "ECHL", which was mostly schools on the east coast, another was mostly western/central NY teams, and there might have been a third. Anyhow, this was around 2004 and the thinking then was that these schools got "better" competition by playing all of these teams from far outside the area rather than playing each other locally. Somehow they convinced IUP and Pitt to go to D1 and the CHMA was formed, though if memory serves, RMU and Mercyhurst came onboard later because the CHMA wasn't good enough.

I do sort of take issue with the use of the term "beer league" to describe ACHA hockey. Yes, technically USA Hockey registers ACHA teams the same way as any other adult hockey team. However, when I think of beer league, I think of a bunch of guys wearing mismatching jerseys playing non-check hockey at 11 at night with very little speed or defense. ACHA hockey certainly isn't pro-level hockey, but it is much more organized than a beer league. I know back when I was involved, which was around 15 years ago now, there was a sentiment that ACHA hockey should refer to itself as "non-varsity". I kind of hate referring to something as what it is not, but I think the idea was that the word "club" conjured up the whole beer league idea. Don't get me wrong, there are ACHA teams (and other college club teams) that are barely organized and probably are really beer league teams, but I think a lot of them deserve a little more respect than the beer league title suggests.

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3 hours ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:


Honestly, I think Danner might have a good point here, with the comment about the local ACHA D1 hockey being "not good enough".

Before CHMA formed, the ACHA D1 schools in the area were WVU, Duquesne, W&J, SRU, RMU, Mercyhurst, and maybe one or two others I'm forgetting. Pitt and IUP were in D2. Not sure about Youngstown State. Those schools played in 2 or 3 different conferences. I want to say one was the "ECHL", which was mostly schools on the east coast, another was mostly western/central NY teams, and there might have been a third. Anyhow, this was around 2004 and the thinking then was that these schools got "better" competition by playing all of these teams from far outside the area rather than playing each other locally. Somehow they convinced IUP and Pitt to go to D1 and the CHMA was formed, though if memory serves, RMU and Mercyhurst came onboard later because the CHMA wasn't good enough.

I do sort of take issue with the use of the term "beer league" to describe ACHA hockey. Yes, technically USA Hockey registers ACHA teams the same way as any other adult hockey team. However, when I think of beer league, I think of a bunch of guys wearing mismatching jerseys playing non-check hockey at 11 at night with very little speed or defense. ACHA hockey certainly isn't pro-level hockey, but it is much more organized than a beer league. I know back when I was involved, which was around 15 years ago now, there was a sentiment that ACHA hockey should refer to itself as "non-varsity". I kind of hate referring to something as what it is not, but I think the idea was that the word "club" conjured up the whole beer league idea. Don't get me wrong, there are ACHA teams (and other college club teams) that are barely organized and probably are really beer league teams, but I think a lot of them deserve a little more respect than the beer league title suggests.

A big difference between Club hockey and beer league is checking. I have known a lot of guys that have never taken a hit, and if they were in a situation where they could get hit, their skills would disappear. It happens when kids move on to checking age. And  in Beer leagues there are many players that skate with their heads down and appear to be pretty good. But would never be good in a checking game because they would get pummeled. 
 

That is why I asked Danner what level of hockey he has played. I wanted to know if knew the difference between checking hockey at the club level, and non checking hockey in the beer league. Because if you have never been hit, you have no idea what the difference is. 

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