The Pittsburgh Penguins Elite Discussion

[ChiefKeef]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:20 AM, RoyalTraveller said:

Hornets had a rule in place that allowed a max of 3 out of town kids on any team. PPE adopted that rule when the Hornets were taken over. Morehouse abolished that rule because he thought it more important for his son to win a national championship. At that moment the goal of the organization went from developing Pittsburgh kids to winning banners. Almost all the current coaches were brought in to recruit the areas they come from. They do a good job recruiting. Not one has a resume of developing hockey players. They don't give 2 shits about developing your child!! They only care about job security and the inflated paychecks they could never earn anywhere else. Why do you think they ran off the GOOD Pittsburgh coaches that have been there. Mooney, Zeiler, Taibi, etc... Wise up 

So many kids in this town currently being conditioned to think they are what they are when in reality they just aren’t receiving the education that kids from other areas are.  Exploit local 9-12 year olds and fund the program with their money for a while.  Then oh darn,  you aren’t having the success at 14 that others are having from other towns… good luck see ya! OR OOPS SORRY the kid we recruited from Sweden is better than you,  so you’re going to take a backseat to him, sorry! 
 

Who is evaluating that programs performance metrics? Who is deciding that the format there is working and worth the astronomical cost and time commitment from families?  I guess what I’m asking is when performance evaluation time comes up __ do hollow rankings, that can be gamed regardless of wins and losses rule all?  Is the success rate of player development even taken into consideration or is that a metric.  I mean maybe the pro team just likes the money but even then they could still pull all those funds and have reputable qualified people operating the program who are actually helping to grow their customer loyalty and fundamentally developing players.  Would be a win win for pro team.  Somebody needs to do better.  

Edited January 31, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, Jkersman01 said:

I think Carter Schade was part of that class, too. I may be off a year...

Nope, you are correct. The mighty 2003 BY to push Morehouse’s kid. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

40 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Nope, you are correct. The mighty 2003 BY to push Morehouse’s kid. 

And because of these politics the best 03’ in Pgh. hasn’t gotten the exposure he deserved. 

[ChiefKeef]

Would that be Ty Voit who has led the OHL in points at times throughout this past season?  Who the pens treated like dirt so he left…

 

Yet they use him to credit themselves as one of their success stories…

 

it’s all a fucking joke.  But the real issues are finally being identified and all the dirty deeds are coming out.  Better late than never.  

Edited January 25, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[ChiefKeef]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

Nope, you are correct. The mighty 2003 BY to push Morehouse’s kid. 

Yeah and honestly,  every other birthyear after has felt the pain of the methods it took to create the 2003 saga. 
 

They’re still pulling the same shit.  Because they’re on easy street with not having to work to develop kids and the model allows them to just bring good players in when necessary to replace their lack of effort in the locals. 
 

THE GRIFT 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

11 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Would that be Ty Voit who has led the OHL in points at times throughout this past season?  Who the pens treated like dirt so he left…

 

Yet they use him to credit themselves as one of their success stories…

 

it’s all a fucking joke.  But the real issues are finally being identified and all the dirty deeds are coming out.  Better late than never.  

Wasn’t good enough to be moved up 16U ? had to play 15’s.

 

you and I had a long conversation on here one night we ended up deleting ? 

[ChiefKeef]

Yeah I don’t know his father personally but I’ve heard the way they talk about him.  Like he was the problem.  If I were him I’d be sending the director cease and desist letters on using his child’s likeness to promote the program. 
 

Then we all found out what a bunch of thunder cunts they are.  So again, that guy deserves a statue for going against the machine.  Right down on 5th Ave. 

Edited January 26, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Happy Hockey Fan]

Not Ty Voit. I didn’t realize he was an 03’. He may be better than the kid I am talking about. But the kid I am talking about, if not better than Ty is the second best 03’ out of Pittsburgh but was cut from top 03’ team and placed on Black. No way that should have ever happened. He is making his way still. I think he has a shot a D1 still. But he was passed over by the USHL where there is no doubt he could have played. I hope they both have great careers ahead of them. 
 

And Marc Voit is a really good skating coach. Don’t know much about him as a bench coach. But he can teach skating for sure. 

[aaaahockey]

9 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

LOL I knew the chum I threw out there was good but underestimated how many would be circling to feed.  

Oh, and yesterday at UPMC I saw a Chevy Suburban with a Lil 66'ers Elite sticker on the back window.  Yikes.

I saw one that said "My kid is Elite.  Pittsburgh Penguins Elite".   On A first year squirt dad's car. Spewed my coffee. 

[aaaahockey]

What happened to Ray Conway?   I thought he always coached at PPE too but suddenly gone. 

[ChiefKeef]

1 hour ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Not Ty Voit. I didn’t realize he was an 03’. He may be better than the kid I am talking about. But the kid I am talking about, if not better than Ty is the second best 03’ out of Pittsburgh but was cut from top 03’ team and placed on Black. No way that should have ever happened. He is making his way still. I think he has a shot a D1 still. But he was passed over by the USHL where there is no doubt he could have played. I hope they both have great careers ahead of them. 
 

And Marc Voit is a really good skating coach. Don’t know much about him as a bench coach. But he can teach skating for sure. 

Not a surprise to anyone.  Many such stories.  Best of luck to that player and his journey.  Hopefully he has managed to make positive outcomes out of his negative experience with Cranberry.  Learning to avoid the snakes is essential. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[ChiefKeef]

11 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I saw one that said "My kid is Elite.  Pittsburgh Penguins Elite".   On A first year squirt dad's car. Spewed my coffee. 

They won’t be elite for long.  Ignorance is bliss.  Just wait until the LA Jr kings recruits show up. 

9 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

What happened to Ray Conway?   I thought he always coached at PPE too but suddenly gone. 

Ray had morals. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Happy Hockey Fan]

1 minute ago, ChiefKeef said:

They won’t be elite for long.  Ignorance is bliss.  Just wait until the LA Jr kings recruits show up. 

Ray had morals. 

Ray is a very good person. Seems to be a very good coach too. I actually had him as coach waaaaaay back. Early in his coaching career for sure. I hope he wasn’t forced out.  Hopefully he ended his career as a coach on his terms. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

5 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Not a surprise to anyone.  Many such stories.  Best of luck to that player and his journey.  Hopefully he has managed to make positive outcomes out of his negative experience with Cranberry.  Learning to avoid the snakes is essential. 

He still has a shot. Playing very well. His journey has showed me a lot about how hard it is to “make it”. And also the fact that talent isn’t always the most important factor, connections make all the difference in the world. I am very hopeful that he gets an opportunity at the D1 level. I think he will.

[forbin]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I saw one that said "My kid is Elite.  Pittsburgh Penguins Elite".   On A first year squirt dad's car. Spewed my coffee. 

Sounds like exact thing that little Jaxton’s mom would make on her cricut machine

[aaaahockey]

My buddy said Conway still doing skills with Cliff Loya and the birthyear SHAHA teams. 

[ChiefKeef]

The weird part is,  nobody really wants to come here.  Yet they still have an unwavering obsession with recruiting.  They shot their shot to become the next Mount or Shattuck and they air balled it.    The model has been stagnate for years,  with no game changers and nothing near success in terms of USA hockey championships for all that recruiting of outside kids. More often than not, the kids that do end up here are here for a season and then they leave.  Only to be replaced by more unsuspecting outside kids.  You can take a look at the rosters year over year on their website,  after squirt and peewee it’s a revolving door.  The hilarious part is they even fuck over the kids that they bring in lol  Don’t put any effort into them.  Just throw them out on the ice 4 hours a day and go through the motions.  Those families ultimately regret their decision and leave.  Next recruiting class in.  Rinse and repeat.  Not to mention the added benefit of having way more names to try to take credit for… you know… even if they were there for one season. 

There’s a trend now with kids from California or west US and Canada.  One California kid just quit on them mid season and went home due to a coach and the program in general.  Seems the US market has largely caught on to the act.  Why else go to Sweden and hold excel summer camps?  Then recruit players.  It wreaks of desperation. 
 

The only logical reason for any of this is these guys like there inflated salaries,  they like not having to truly put effort in to developing kids,  and the model they use allows them to call in outside kids at older ages,  when there lack of development starts to show with the locals,  so they can keep the teams somewhat competitive in the rankings and basically just mail it in and continue to make a lot of money.

Hockey2020 keeps saying there’s lines out the door for squirts.  If he isn’t giving himself away with that statement… my god.  No lines out the door for bantams and midgets.  Just the easy targets… the fundraisers.  

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[hockeyisgreat]

ChiefKeef do you have any ideas as to how to create a competitor to the Pens Elite!  You have all valid points for sure.  Do you think Black Bear can create a better option?  The second and third best options as far as a total program are Esmark and Vengenance right now.  Can those programs get stronger to compete with PE or do we need another option?  

You seem to have very strong opinions and have done some research on the subject.  Just curious for mites and squirts coming up.

Edited January 26, 2023 by hockeyisgreat
typo

[Saucey]

You know, as I read the unrelenting cheerleading posts for the Vengeance program and then occasionally from the people who crow about the success of that one SHAHA team.....here is the bottom line. No one program is 'the best'. The stuff about the Vengeance made me want to throw up a little in my mouth. Like any of these programs that spring up around here, they have sporadic success that doesn't seem to stick as the kids grow older. For every good team that they put together, there is a massive clunker. And they are more than happy to put a team together with kids who aren't AA and still slap that AAA label on. And...every single program does it. PPE as well has done it.

So what is a parent to do?

It is really hard, particularly if you do not know hockey. 

My family never bought into any of this crap. But with Blackbear moving in and everyone leaving PAHL to chase the rainbows, I have no idea what we would have done in this landscape. We could always manage to find a situation that worked for our kids.

So my advice...just try to find a good coach, good families, where your kid is having fun and getting better. That is going to differ for your kid. Then find a good match for privates. Make sure they are getting better. 

Emphasize school. Have them get good grades. You don't buy the Powerball thinking you are going to win. Your kid has the same chance at playing in the NHL or NCAA div I as they do at winning the Powerball. So look for a match with your child over 'the best' program, whatever that means, regardless of what label whatever program is sticking on it. After all, the 'best' program may have just been the one that did the sales pitch and recruiting the best that year.

[Paul Baxter]

@ChiefKeef Thanks for contributing to the forum.  However, drop the profanities from your posts.  No more profanities.  Got it??

 

@forbin FYI

[ChiefKeef]

23 minutes ago, Paul Baxter said:

@ChiefKeef Thanks for contributing to the forum.  However, drop the profanities from your posts.  No more profanities.  Got it??

 

@forbin FYI

I will leave those out moving forward.  I understand.  Thanks. 

[ChiefKeef]

13 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

ChiefKeef do you have any ideas as to how to create a competitor to the Pens Elite!  You have all valid points for sure.  Do you think Black Bear can create a better option?  The second and third best options as far as a total program are Esmark and Vengenance right now.  Can those programs get stronger to compete with PE or do we need another option?  

You seem to have very strong opinions and have done some research on the subject.  Just curious for mites and squirts coming up.

First and foremost someone needs to step in with that program and get rid of the toxic elements of it.  There’s a lot of data out there to justify that. 
 

Any ideas I have wouldn’t be divulged on a public forum. I know full on how an honest well meaning hockey program can operate.  With eyes on development over meaningless national titles.  Most importantly hiring the right people. 
 

Regarding black bear _ if they wanted to, yes.  The Chicago Mission were the cream of the crop for a very long time in Chicago.  Coincidentally,  or maybe not (wink),  people grew tired of their crap.  While it wasn’t anything near what’s going on in Pittsburgh,  the people there still found it to be troublesome.  The Chicago Reapers were created and people jumped ship from the mission without hesitation.  The Reapers however were able to present that ‘grand’ perception of being a big time program.  That’s a credit to their PR and marketing people.  People were so desperate for change there,  even Windy City who is a small time operation has usurped the mission in most birth years. That would be black bears starting point, coming in with something newer and some core fundamentals around limiting outside player  involvement.  Having good people involved would sell itself. 
 

The vengeance are currently equipped to take on Cranberry kids fully.  They have 3 sheets,  they have a reputable staff there,  and they largely focus on Pittsburgh kids already.  If anyone could justify recruiting all over the world,  it would be them as they only have so much to work with locally.  To my knowledge they just built a new facility for the kids with a basketball court and fitness areas.  Thought I don’t know if that project is finished yet. 

Put it this way. What over rides the fascination with wearing a pro teams jersey and a corporate styled modern rink is the parent ego.  If people were educated on what they were getting involved with__ I know with out a doubt they would forsake the bravado of the program we are discussing.  Harmarville would be fine.  The kids becoming better hockey players is number one on the heart of every parent out there.  

 

prime example: the prospective first year squirt parent sees the rankings.  Have no idea how they work.  They see top 5-10 squirt through peewee teams in Cranberry.  What they don’t know is that most other cities do no consolidate their ‘best players’ on to one team until peewee minor,  or more often then not pee-wee major.  Even then,  bigger towns have competition,  they often don’t have the luxury of having every stud seeking out one program.  So having top 5-10 squirt and peewee teams is a nice credit to the talent of kids from Pittsburgh… it doesn’t have anything to do with long term success of the program in question or those players development prospects. They simply have the advantage of having all or most of the top players together in that time frame,  when most other teams don’t.  So naturally they are going to be a top ranked team.  I don’t know that there’s been a squirt team from Cranberry that’s finished lower than 7-8 in the rankings since 2012.  It’s easy street.  Look how they all ended up though,  that’s where the truth is.  The 2006 birthyear was just as high as anyone with the ranking through out the years…. As I mentioned…. There’s currently ONE PITTSBURGH kid left. 
 

Smoke and mirrors. Smoke and mirrors. 
 

 

I do have strong opinions but I’d like to point out that most of them are based on fact.  I speak in  jest at times,  to poke some fun.  Because some of the clowns in question get on this forum and act well,  like clowns.  However everything I’m saying is available by way of independent research.  The results on player advancement,  the rosters and the turn over on them year to year starting mostly at bantam major,  sometimes bantam minor through midget major.  I’ll say it again there is currently a midget team there with ONE Pittsburgh born kid on it.  You’ve seen the stories in this thread,  Voit and many others like him moving out of PA who haven’t been mentioned due to being minors,  entire birthyears leaving and going to Harmarville or driving their kids two hours away to Cleveland.

 

 

With the right group of people,  and funding,  that shouldn’t be that hard to combat lol. 
 

Regarding Esmark,  I respect their longevity and the people there trying to make it work.  I just don’t think that location is going to serve them on a grand scale.  They have carved out a space in the community with what they have. I can’t see them growing past what they are now.  
 

 

Edited January 27, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

1 hour ago, ChiefKeef said:

First and foremost someone needs to step in with that program and get rid of the toxic elements of it.  There’s a lot of data out there to justify that. 
 

Any ideas I have wouldn’t be divulged on a public forum. I know full on how an honest well meaning hockey program can operate.  With eyes on development over meaningless national titles.  Most importantly hiring the right people. 
 

Regarding black bear _ if they wanted to, yes.  The Chicago Mission were the cream of the crop for a very long time in Chicago.  Coincidentally,  or maybe not (wink),  people grew tired of their crap.  While it wasn’t anything near what’s going on in Pittsburgh,  the people there still found it to be troublesome.  The Chicago Reapers were created and people jumped ship from the mission without hesitation.  The Reapers however were able to present that ‘grand’ perception of being a big time program.  That’s a credit to their PR and marketing people.  People were so desperate for change there,  even Windy City who is a small time operation has usurped the mission in most birth years. That would be black bears starting point, coming in with something newer and some core fundamentals around limiting outside player  involvement.  Having good people involved would sell itself. 
 

The vengeance are currently equipped to take on Cranberry kids fully.  They have 3 sheets,  they have a reputable staff there,  and they largely focus on Pittsburgh kids already.  If anyone could justify recruiting all over the world,  it would be them as they only have so much to work with locally.  To my knowledge they just built a new facility for the kids with a basketball court and fitness areas.  Thought I don’t know if that project is finished yet. 

Put it this way. What over rides the fascination with wearing a pro teams jersey and a corporate styled modern rink is the parent ego.  If people were educated on what they were getting involved with__ I know with out a doubt they would forsake the bravado of the program we are discussing.  Harmarville would be fine.  The kids becoming better hockey players is number one on the heart of every parent out there.  
 

I do have strong opinions but I’d like to point out that most of them are based on fact.  I speak in  jest at times,  to poke some fun.  Because some of the clowns in question get on this forum and act well,  like clowns.  However everything I’m saying is available by way of independent research.  The results on player advancement,  the rosters and the turn over on them year to year starting mostly at bantam major,  sometimes bantam minor through midget major.  There is currently midget team team there with ONE Pittsburgh born kid on it.  You’ve seen the stories in this thread,  Voit and many others like him moving out of PA who haven’t been mentioned due to being minors,  entire birthyears leaving and going to Harmarville or driving their kids two hours away to Cleveland.
 

With the right group of people,  and funding,  that shouldn’t be that hard to combat lol. 
 

Regarding Esmark,  I respect their longevity and the people there trying to make it work.  I just don’t think that location is going to serve them on a grand scale.  They have carved out a space in the community with what they have. I can’t see them growing past what they are now.  
 

 

I know a decent amount of kids from 99’s down to 04’s that left the mission for team Illinois. 

[ChiefKeef]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I know a decent amount of kids from 99’s down to 04’s that left the mission for team Illinois. 

Interesting, wasn’t that in line with the time Cranberry’s current grifter was there?  Before he was brought in to town.  Though he wasn’t the only problem in that space either.  Surely he sharpened his grifting skills there though. 
 

Unfortunately when things go awry in Cranberry,  as they so often do.  The kid leaves,  a group of kids leave and resort to acceptance that that program can’t be changed.  A lot of people focus on a personal solution,  or resort to these one off scenarios or resolutions where it doesn’t help the people coming after them,  who or are going to be prone to the same experience. It’s really time for people to start speaking up and looking to help the community as a whole.  A lot of us care about the families and kids who are coming up and don’t want to see them get caught in the same traps others have. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by ChiefKeef

[Danner27]

25 minutes ago, ChiefKeef said:

Interesting, wasn’t that in line with the time Cranberry’s current grifter was there?  Before he was brought in to town.  Though he wasn’t the only problem in that space either.  Surely he sharpened his grifting skills there though. 
 

Unfortunately when things go awry in Cranberry,  as they so often do.  The kid leaves,  a group of kids leave and resort to acceptance that that program can’t be changed.  A lot of people focus on a personal solution,  or resort to these one off scenarios or resolutions where it doesn’t help the people coming after them,  who or are going to be prone to the same experience. It’s really time for people to start speaking up and looking to help the community as a whole.  A lot of us care about the families and kids who are coming up and don’t want to see them get caught in the same traps others have. 

Some left while he was still at the mission, others when they knew he was leaving the program for dead.  Two western pa kids went to team Illinois after they had enough of the him & You know who at ppe. One of these kids ended up in the ushl, the other in the nahl. If they make it to ncaa d1 I’m sure ppe will put up signs about them. 

Edited January 27, 2023 by Danner27