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Esmark moving to Southpointe


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I'm sure others have heard the rumor that Black Bear is moving Esmark to Printscape in Southpointe to coincide with a second sheet of ice being ready for next season. Part of the move will also include a rebrand on some level. The initial thought was that Black Bear was just going to start their own Tier 1 program at Southpointe, but later decided to move Esmark instead.

I personally don't buy it. Esmark is a non-profit that you can't just buy. I'm not sure what mechanism Black Bear would have to take control of the team. I'm not sure I see this happening.

On the other hand, it is interesting that all the Tier 1 programs are in the north while I would guess that more than half of the rosters are kids from Lebo, USC, Bethel, Peters Township, TJ, and other south suburbs with historically high hockey participation.

The first time I heard this was during tryout season, but I've now heard it from maybe a dozen separate people. It does seem as though the Black Bear tentacles are sinking deeper. I know they have people on staff who do nothing but run their leagues and the youth and junior organizations they own. Once again, they want to maximize profit in every possible way.

Edited by RJUSHL
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Isn't Pittsburgh Ice a Black Bear rink also?  With Vipers & Huskies low on numbers what would be the sense of moving Esmark to a rink that will be crowded even with a second sheet. Doesn't make smart business sense to me and if they were strictly out for money why not stat a new Tier 1 program at Southpointe.  After all they are all just Faux AAA programs anyways according to most of the people on this forum.  Anybody hear anything more about Rostraver?  

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6 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Isn't Pittsburgh Ice a Black Bear rink also?  With Vipers & Huskies low on numbers what would be the sense of moving Esmark to a rink that will be crowded even with a second sheet. Doesn't make smart business sense to me and if they were strictly out for money why not stat a new Tier 1 program at Southpointe.  After all they are all just Faux AAA programs anyways according to most of the people on this forum.  Anybody hear anything more about Rostraver?  

That makes sense. I'm not sure how crowded ice time is at Southpointe. I don't have first hand experience.

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This is literally a rumor every year…just different locations. Last year, Esmark “was in talks with Ice Castle”. The year before was Southpointe. The year before that was somewhere else…I can’t remember.

As a board member, I am told Esmark is not moving and this is just a rumor recirculating.

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2 minutes ago, AMR24 said:

This is literally a rumor every year…just different locations. Last year, Esmark “was in talks with Ice Castle”. The year before was Southpointe. The year before that was somewhere else…I can’t remember.

As a board member, I am told Esmark is not moving and this is just a rumor recirculating.

Has Black Bear dictated anything with Esmark? What league to play in, how much ice they must buy, etc., or have they been completely hands off?

Edited by RJUSHL
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1 hour ago, Pa Hockey said:

If this is true ? Would this be the end of Pittsburgh Ice ? Why would they buy it or would they just sell the property ? 

Harmar-Alpha and Palmer (Black Bear) would just take in the players and programs left and increase their numbers

 

I don't think they have closed a rink yet!  They own 30 or so now!  Why would PIA be the first to close?

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1 hour ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

only way it moves is IF DAVE decides too. IT IS HIS TEAM NOT BB.  BUT if they would move could we see the faux preds lebo shaha teams slowly bleed out and just go away like iceman u18 did?  time will tell. 

Sounds good in theory about Dave having the control, but he doesn't own the rink so he doesn't have complete control in terms of Esmark's relationship with PIA.

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PIA is in such a terrible location, I think it would be better to move somewhere else. Even if you fix up the rink, it's still really hard for anyone not on that side of town to get to. I think it's a huge reason why some families won't play there.

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2 hours ago, Saucey said:

PIA is in such a terrible location, I think it would be better to move somewhere else. Even if you fix up the rink, it's still really hard for anyone not on that side of town to get to. I think it's a huge reason why some families won't play there.

All depends on where you are coming from!

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18 hours ago, Saucey said:

PIA is in such a terrible location, I think it would be better to move somewhere else. Even if you fix up the rink, it's still really hard for anyone not on that side of town to get to. I think it's a huge reason why some families won't play there.

I think this statement is true for the single A teams. But for the AA/AAA teams, arena location doesn’t seem to matter to some.

PIA is definitely not in the most convenient location geographically but it doesn’t really hinder ppl coming for the higher teams.

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11 hours ago, AMR24 said:

I think this statement is true for the single A teams. But for the AA/AAA teams, arena location doesn’t seem to matter to some.

PIA is definitely not in the most convenient location geographically but it doesn’t really hinder ppl coming for the higher teams.

yes and no. like the press top line is better then the stars bottom line, there for making stars stronger and can hopefully bleed preds shaha dry of their faux aa teams 

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25 minutes ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

yes and no. like the press top line is better then the stars bottom line, there for making stars stronger and can hopefully bleed preds shaha dry of their faux aa teams 

Well said friend but the fauxAAA teams are a bigger issue than the AA. . If someone can finally end the preds and SHAHA faux AAA fiasco pgh hockey would see better days. 

Edited by Sticktime56
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10 hours ago, Sticktime56 said:

Well said friend but the fauxAAA teams are a bigger issue than the AA. . If someone can finally end the preds and SHAHA faux AAA fiasco pgh hockey would see better days. 

As long as Parents are willing to pay for it there will be other AAA teams in SWPA.  Why did you just list Preds and SHAHA? What about Esmark, Vengenance and all the rest of the AAA teams showing up in SWPA these days.  It's all about what people are willing to pay for!  You can call yourself whatever you want!  Doesn't make your team AAA or even AA for that matter!  If you really want to blame someone blame My Hockey Rankings.  That's really the only place the A's matter for some type of competitive balance.

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23 hours ago, AMR24 said:

I think this statement is true for the single A teams. But for the AA/AAA teams, arena location doesn’t seem to matter to some.

PIA is definitely not in the most convenient location geographically but it doesn’t really hinder ppl coming for the higher teams.

I know multiple families that turned down Esmark spots this year because of arena location. They accepted spots on lesser teams.

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17 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

I know multiple families that turned down Esmark spots this year because of arena location. They accepted spots on lesser teams.

This is going back a ways, but back when Esmark was known as the Pittsburgh Stars, they played at Kittanning. And the Vengeance, then known as the Amateur Penguins, played at the Neville South Side Arena - good location, but awful rink. Around that same time, the Hornets, were playing home games in Detroit. So I think that there is some validity to the idea that some people will go anywhere for AAA. I think that's especially true for Esmark, who has been 2nd best after PPE if you consider the last 15 years as a whole and not individual teams/birth years.

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5 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

As long as Parents are willing to pay for it there will be other AAA teams in SWPA.  Why did you just list Preds and SHAHA? What about Esmark, Vengenance and all the rest of the AAA teams showing up in SWPA these days.  It's all about what people are willing to pay for!  You can call yourself whatever you want!  Doesn't make your team AAA or even AA for that matter!  If you really want to blame someone blame My Hockey Rankings.  That's really the only place the A's matter for some type of competitive balance.

I specifically called out Preds and SHAHA because they continue to put out AAA teams at all BYs and NONE of them are AAA. Alteast vengeance and esmark at most BYs can compete at AAA levels. I think it's fair to say if you can't or won't play for PPE, the next best place for youth AAA hockey would be Vengeance or esmark. 

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Not everyone will go anywhere for AAA, that is a really broad statement. You may not know who might have come if located somewhere else because if the location is a deal breaker, it's a waste of time and money to try out. Logistics do factor in for some people.

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10 minutes ago, Sticktime56 said:

I specifically called out Preds and SHAHA because they continue to put out AAA teams at all BYs and NONE of them are AAA. Alteast vengeance and esmark at most BYs can compete at AAA levels. I think it's fair to say if you can't or won't play for PPE, the next best place for youth AAA hockey would be Vengeance or esmark. 

That SHAHA 16U AAA team is very good. I won't be surprised if they beat Esmark this year.  They beat Vengenance last year. Maybe that's what caused them to fold.  I'm going to watch some results next month and take a stab at ranking the AAA teams around here!  Oh wait I guess MyHR will do that for me!  I guess we will see how many are legit AAA!

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41 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

That SHAHA 16U AAA team is very good. I won't be surprised if they beat Esmark this year.  They beat Vengenance last year. Maybe that's what caused them to fold.  I'm going to watch some results next month and take a stab at ranking the AAA teams around here!  Oh wait I guess MyHR will do that for me!  I guess we will see how many are legit AAA!

I think you are correct about this.  The 06 SHAHA team is good. The problem is the organization got the big head and now has low level AAA at 07, 08, and 09 levels.   They seem to want to copy the Preds model which is  not what anyone needs to do. 

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6 hours ago, Sticktime56 said:

I specifically called out Preds and SHAHA because they continue to put out AAA teams at all BYs and NONE of them are AAA. Alteast vengeance and esmark at most BYs can compete at AAA levels. I think it's fair to say if you can't or won't play for PPE, the next best place for youth AAA hockey would be Vengeance or esmark. 

So when the 2006 SHAHA team plays PPE twice next weekend maybe they should just give up and forfeit. 

https://www.pittsburghpenguinselite.com/schedule/team_instance/7573456?subseason=819250

 

Edited by fafa fohi
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