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"Real" AAA


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7 hours ago, Seejay784 said:

My son is an 06 and decided to leave his faux AAA team this year and just do PAHL AA because of the travel. He's at the age of girlfriend,  job, high school life. After 10 games so far, his biggest takeaway besides the slower speed of the game is the ice quality in the 3rd. He can't understand why Tier 1 and High School the ice gets cut after the 2nd period but Tier 2 just has to go out and deal with sloppy conditions that 100% affect the way you have to play. Maybe if you want more bubble AAA/AA kids to stay in AA start treating Tier 2 the same as Tier 1. As minor as some think that might be, it tells you right off the bat that Tier 2 is second rate.

To get back to your point about who's  AAA and who's not. There are really two levels.  Tier 1 Elite (top 30) then Tier 1 everyone else. The very top AA Tier 2 teams can probably hang with the very bottom Tier 1 AAA teams. But that is a really small overlap. There is nothing wrong with kids who want to play better competition and travel more opt for the extra A. They might not be playing Shattucks and Pens Elite but they'll get to play other Tier 1 teams that are on the same level such as Indy Jr Fuel, Jr Hurricanes, Etc. 

that’s not really a tier 2 problem (ice cuts) that’s the clubs and leauges. Many other area tier 2 clubs & leagues do two ice cuts. It’s More of a Pahl issue not wanting to buy that extra 20 minutes I suppose. You would figure they could squeeze it in since the periods are shorter. Once kids get to bantam, imo - there should always be a second ice cut. regardless of level. Sometimes the ice can get dangerous, most of the time it slows the game in the 3rd period. 

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4 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

What does that even mean?  Look around the country and see what happens when sports are opened up to all socio-economic groups (football, basketball, and now soccer): white athletes become less and less successful.  
golf, tennis, lacrosse, hockey: rich white people sports. 

Looking at baseball, it seems to have gotten a bit more "closed" too. Much more of a suburban sport than it once was. 

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On 9/17/2022 at 11:34 AM, aaaahockey said:

I think you are 100% right except I think 09 Preds have always been bad AAA.  SHAHA is new but Preds have been pretending for several years.  At the 09 level to my knowledge only Vengeance and Pens are legit.   I think Esmark, Preds have always been bad and we will see with SHAHA next week when the rankings come out but I assume they will all three be in the 100s.  

The SHAHA 09 team is a far better team than the preds 09 team. I have watched both teams play against my sons 09 team and was impressed with SHAHA, not so much preds. The coaching, skill,discipline and execution of the SHAHA was far better than preds . 

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33 minutes ago, Sticktime56 said:

The SHAHA 09 team is a far better team than the preds 09 team. I have watched both teams play against my sons 09 team and was impressed with SHAHA, not so much preds. The coaching, skill,discipline and execution of the SHAHA was far better than preds . 

Yet like I said before neither the SHAHA 2009 or Esmark 2009 are AAA.  They will be ranked about 60 at best.  I doubt even that high.  A lot of great players on both teams but not AAA teams.  In fact if you ask the parents of the top players on those teams they will tell you the same I bet.

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8 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Yet like I said before neither the SHAHA 2009 or Esmark 2009 are AAA.  They will be ranked about 60 at best.  I doubt even that high.  A lot of great players on both teams but not AAA teams.  In fact if you ask the parents of the top players on those teams they will tell you the same I bet.

So what should Esmark 09 be doing differently?

What should SHAHA 09 be doing differently?

I still don’t understand your point with these two teams except your desire to split hairs between teams ranked in the 30s vs teams ranked in the 50s. 
 

We all understand that it’s absurd to have a team ranked 120 leave PAHL and call themselves AAA. But that’s not what is happening here. And that’s not what is happening with SHAHA 06. 

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I'm going to revisit this when the ratings come out at the 06-09 levels. Curious to see if any of the AA PAHL teams are rated ahead or close to any of the AAA teams this year.  All that being said, if 6 faux AAA teams all played each other suddenly PAHL would have a better top end and it would bump some of the AA teams down to single A, having a trickling effect all the way down. 

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1 hour ago, hockey07 said:

So if Shaha and esmark played pahl aa minor with the other 2009 by teams, would they get the same development? 

What about 09 icemen/yetis that went Independent? They barely won any games in aa last year. What’s the point of not playing Pahl 

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1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I'm going to revisit this when the ratings come out at the 06-09 levels. Curious to see if any of the AA PAHL teams are rated ahead or close to any of the AAA teams this year.  All that being said, if 6 faux AAA teams all played each other suddenly PAHL would have a better top end and it would bump some of the AA teams down to single A, having a trickling effect all the way down. 

How many 06 AAA teams are there in SWPA?( Pens, SHAHA, Esmark, Preds)  am I missing some?   07?, 08? and 09?  

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2 hours ago, hockey07 said:

So if Shaha and esmark played pahl aa minor with the other 2009 by teams, would they get the same development? 

No, they would not. It would take all the teams to play in the same division to give them some element of local hockey.  Let's look at '09, if Esmark, SHAHA, Preds and Icemen all played in a division with the 3-4 top '09 teams from PAHL, it would be good, but not great competition.  It would give those teams 20 games in the area and they can round out their 50-60 game schedules with all the other AAA teams they wanted to play.  Maybe that is the role Black Bear plays in all of this, start a WPA AAA division to their league and draw those teams in.  Maybe add in Mid-State, Team Ohio, Barons to WPA?

Edited by Lucky17
Updating possible teams
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24 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

How many 06 AAA teams are there in SWPA?( Pens, SHAHA, Esmark, Preds)  am I missing some?   07?, 08? and 09?  

It fluctuates a bit - Icemen have some teams, Vengeance, sometimes Steel City and Allegheny Badgers have AAA teams, Erie even has one but I can't remember what level maybe 08?  Southpointe tried it with the 10s last year but I don't know that they have any this year.  

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7 hours ago, hockey07 said:

So if Shaha and esmark played pahl aa minor with the other 2009 by teams, would they get the same development? 

Yes they would develop the same maybe even better.  That is my favorite excuse.  Again, because a few jump ship because they are all the sudden AAA it ruins PAHL AA forcing more to jump ship.  Look at 09  SHAHA last year.   They played several close games with the top few teams.  Then figure that league was missing the Preds 09 AAA (HA), and the 09 Esmark team.   Put those two in with the 09 independent Icemen and you would have a solid AA PAHL division.  That is also what those teams are.  Now the AA division has numerous A level teams because of all the bogus AAA teams that have left.  

   Development???  For what??  Beer league??  So drive all over the country to play the same types of teams when you could have 20 solid home games.  The money would be better spent on skills and skating for development.  

  As for any of the PAHL teams getting ranked higher than those guys it is doubtful because they don't play high enough ranked teams enough.  If you just hang in with highly ranked teams and don't compete your ranking will still be higher.  That is why Pens do not like to play local. Everyone is worried about their stupid ranking.

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5 hours ago, Lucky17 said:

No, they would not. It would take all the teams to play in the same division to give them some element of local hockey.  Let's look at '09, if Esmark, SHAHA, Preds and Icemen all played in a division with the 3-4 top '09 teams from PAHL, it would be good, but not great competition.  It would give those teams 20 games in the area and they can round out their 50-60 game schedules with all the other AAA teams they wanted to play.  Maybe that is the role Black Bear plays in all of this, start a WPA AAA division to their league and draw those teams in.  Maybe add in Mid-State, Team Ohio, Barons to WPA?

If I understand correctly, these teams struggle to schedule independent games if they do not call themselves AAA. 

I agree it's a cash grab and toilet flush of money - but I believe that's part of the reasoning?

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1 hour ago, BeerLeagueRockstar said:

If I understand correctly, these teams struggle to schedule independent games if they do not call themselves AAA. 

I agree it's a cash grab and toilet flush of money - but I believe that's part of the reasoning?

No it is mostly to pitch it as AAA to parents that are either uneducated or to parents that just want to say little johnny is playing AAA.

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5 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Yes they would develop the same maybe even better.  That is my favorite excuse.  Again, because a few jump ship because they are all the sudden AAA it ruins PAHL AA forcing more to jump ship.  Look at 09  SHAHA last year.   They played several close games with the top few teams.  Then figure that league was missing the Preds 09 AAA (HA), and the 09 Esmark team.   Put those two in with the 09 independent Icemen and you would have a solid AA PAHL division.  That is also what those teams are.  Now the AA division has numerous A level teams because of all the bogus AAA teams that have left.  

   Development???  For what??  Beer league??  So drive all over the country to play the same types of teams when you could have 20 solid home games.  The money would be better spent on skills and skating for development.  

  As for any of the PAHL teams getting ranked higher than those guys it is doubtful because they don't play high enough ranked teams enough.  If you just hang in with highly ranked teams and don't compete your ranking will still be higher.  That is why Pens do not like to play local. Everyone is worried about their stupid ranking.

If you play PAHL, you get 10 home games and 10 away games.  The away games are local.  So, that is essentially what you gain by playing PAHL.  The AAA teams each get there 10 home games but lose their 10 away local games. 

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10 minutes ago, twoboys said:

If you play PAHL, you get 10 home games and 10 away games.  The away games are local.  So, that is essentially what you gain by playing PAHL.  The AAA teams each get there 10 home games but lose their 10 away local games. 

They also pay double the price just to say my son plays AAA hockey when in reality he's on a A team who thinks they are AAA.

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18 minutes ago, twoboys said:

If you play PAHL, you get 10 home games and 10 away games.  The away games are local.  So, that is essentially what you gain by playing PAHL.  The AAA teams each get there 10 home games but lose their 10 away local games. 

Although you could end up with State College, Erie, Altoona, Beaver, Wheeling, Youngstown or a combo of those. We had State College, Erie, and Altoona in our division before. You can end up playing some of those twice and with regular tournaments too, still a lot of travel and $

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43 minutes ago, Hockey00 said:

Although you could end up with State College, Erie, Altoona, Beaver, Wheeling, Youngstown or a combo of those. We had State College, Erie, and Altoona in our division before. You can end up playing some of those twice and with regular tournaments too, still a lot of travel and $

Those team typically aren't AA but yes if A major black it could be really bad.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Ranking out

 

Bantam 2009: 

 

pens 14th

 

Vengeance 46th

 

shaha 67th

 

Pred 76th

 

esmark 102nd

 

2008:

 

Vengeance 2nd

 

Pens 3rd 08 all

 

Shaha 56th 08all

 

Preds 94th 08all

 

Esmark 118th 08all 


not sure people can say anymore that pens, vengeance, and esmark are the only 3 “real” aaa anymore 

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On 9/17/2022 at 11:34 AM, aaaahockey said:

I think you are 100% right except I think 09 Preds have always been bad AAA.  SHAHA is new but Preds have been pretending for several years.  At the 09 level to my knowledge only Vengeance and Pens are legit.   I think Esmark, Preds have always been bad and we will see with SHAHA next week when the rankings come out but I assume they will all three be in the 100s.  

Interesting at how high preds were over esmark. And Shaha higher than both of them in the 60s

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06:

 

Pens Elite:  16th

SHAHA: 20th

Esmark 41st

Predators:  86th

First PAHL Team I see is Steel City but this is hard to compare because Tier 1 vs. Tear 2.  When you sort by ALL midget minor teams, this steel city team is ranked 159th behind SHAHA 07 and Esmark 07

 

07:

Pens:  4th

SHAHA:  49th

Esmark:  51st

Vengeance:  61st

Icemen:  91st

Predators:  95th

See note above about PAHL.  If anyone knows how to sort that better or knows which teams are 06 vs 07 teams in PAHL that could help.

 

08:

Vengeance:  2nd (interesting since they just lost to the Pens)

Pens:  3rd

SHAHA:  52nd

Predators:  75th

Esmark 83rd

Top PAHL Team is Steel City below all these AA teams - when you get rid of tier 1 and 2 Esmark is 118 and Steel City is 130th

 

09:

Pens:  14th

Vengeance:  46th

SHAHA:  67th

Predators:  76th

Esmark:  102nd

Icemen:  120th

Looks like Arctic Foxes is the first PAHL team at 154th

 

 

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Didn’t realize it’s that time of the year already! Take a look at midget minor & midget major. Culver hasn’t played enough games yet, they will take a top 6 spot for the tournament. As usual the vengance & predators are already out of the tournement sitting in dead last. No icemen this year ? 

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