Black Bear Starting to move in on Youth Hockey??

[No Politics]

2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I know of more than one AA Preds team that was lucky to get a half ice slot per week and maybe a full ice slot once a month.  If you check their website no where do they tell you what practice time you will get.   

Great post, hockeyisgreat.

This seems to be happening more and more around Western PA.  As an example, Alpha is also bunged-up with ice time, and teams like the Aviators only get one 1/2 ice practice per week.  

I only have one son left still of playing age, but I ALWAYS ask about practice frequencies and styles (1/2 vs. full ice) before registering him for tryouts.  It speaks volumes if programs don't let you know practice frequency and annual costs in advance of tryouts.  Seems the only programs who are truly immune to limited ice time are those like the Arrows (smaller program and the rink is publicly owned) and the AAA teams.  Those kids always seem to get at least two practices per week no matter what.

[aaaahockey]

I believe all SHAHA teams get two practices a week but depending on what level you are depends on if you get any full ice practices and some of the lower teams even at younger levels have some pretty bad practice times.  They have the advantage that the YMCA does little of their own programming there and I don't think any other teams play out of there except Bethel Park?  No figure skating, open skating, or regular stick time to my knowledge. 

[muckerandgrinder]

8 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Preds definitely have issues with Ice time for AA teams.  Beware and ask questions about ice time.  I know of more than one AA Preds team that was lucky to get a half ice slot per week and maybe a full ice slot once a month.  If you check their website no where do they tell you what practice time you will get.   

Was thinking about trying out there but unless you are Faux AAA you won't get ice time.  Buyer beware!!!!

Depends on who you talk to I guess. Always had 2-3 per week when my son played there. As a matter of fact we left hornets for that specific reason. Got sick of having 7 a.m. practices on the mini rink at at Mt. Lebanon.

I did ask around with people I know with kids there and generally people seem happy with their ice time. 2-3 practices per week August through end of Sept. and minimum 2 per week during the season. Buddy with a kid on the bottom squirt team said the only weeks they had less practice were weeks that tournaments were at the rink. Also said AAA teams get more consistent ice but they pay for it.

SHAHA people do seem generally happy with their practice slots as well. Having less going on at Spencer seems to benefit the existing teams. Hope the Y doesn’t close that rink as they have been saying for years.

I don’t get the infatuation with full ice practices either. If you have a good coach they can utilize the 1/2 sheets and tie it together when they have full ice.

And don’t forget the “game mania” going on with PAHL. People want to complain about not getting full Ice slots but every time they do they feel compelled to invite a team for a scrimmage, thus losing a practice on a full sheet.

[miked]

14 minutes ago, muckerandgrinder said:

I don’t get the infatuation with full ice practices either. If you have a good coach they can utilize the 1/2 sheets and tie it together when they have full ice.

couldn't agree more. I would rather have more ice slots on smaller surfaces than less slots on larger surfaces.

thing is, when people say half ice slot, everyone always splits the ice at the redline. I see so much wasted ice because coaches don't talk to each other. Say one coach is going to do one on one battle drills in the corners for 15 minutes. why can't the other coach use 3/4 the ice for that time? and then they switch. if the 2 coaches would work together, the ice could be split in different ways to maximize its usage for the betterment of everybody.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, muckerandgrinder said:

Hope the Y doesn’t close that rink as they have been saying for years.

They are spending money this off-season for upgrades (I think I heard new boards, glass, and maybe something with the seating?) I don't think that's happening.  

[hockeyisgreat]

1 hour ago, muckerandgrinder said:

Depends on who you talk to I guess. Always had 2-3 per week when my son played there. As a matter of fact we left hornets for that specific reason. Got sick of having 7 a.m. practices on the mini rink at at Mt. Lebanon.

I did ask around with people I know with kids there and generally people seem happy with their ice time. 2-3 practices per week August through end of Sept. and minimum 2 per week during the season. Buddy with a kid on the bottom squirt team said the only weeks they had less practice were weeks that tournaments were at the rink. Also said AAA teams get more consistent ice but they pay for it.

SHAHA people do seem generally happy with their practice slots as well. Having less going on at Spencer seems to benefit the existing teams. Hope the Y doesn’t close that rink as they have been saying for years.

I don’t get the infatuation with full ice practices either. If you have a good coach they can utilize the 1/2 sheets and tie it together when they have full ice.

And don’t forget the “game mania” going on with PAHL. People want to complain about not getting full Ice slots but every time they do they feel compelled to invite a team for a scrimmage, thus losing a practice on a full sheet.

I can tell you for a fact that the 14U, 16U & 18U AA teams got one practice per week.  3 out of 4 weeks per month were 1/2 ice. I could understand that for A high school friendly but not AA. Especially when they told the kids they would get at least 2 practices a week.  Only program I know of that gets one AA practice a week.  I have heard more than 1 Preds AA parent complain.  Ask before tryouts!  Don't let them lie to you.

[Saucey]

1/2 ice doesn't work as well when they get bigger. My kids hate them. Just don't feel like they get a good enough skate.

[miked]

3 hours ago, Saucey said:

1/2 ice doesn't work as well when they get bigger. My kids hate them. Just don't feel like they get a good enough skate.

2 summers ago I had to take my wife to an appointment at UPMC. while I waited, I walked over to the rink hoping there would be something to watch to pass the time. to my surprise I saw Vincent Trochek, JT Miller, Zemgus Gergenson (sp) and that local D man who's more of an AHLer but did get some NHL callup time, along with a bunch of what I'll call prospects. They were all wearing some sort of identifying jersey but it's not relevant who I recognized and didn't. What did I watch them do? well first they did small area games for about 30 minutes. 2 groups in 2 stations using one zone. After that they played 3 on 3 cross ice. Yes just like 8U adm. cross ice. after all that, they went to 4 vs 4 full ice, which was pretty much a joke. Trochek was "hitting" everybody on the ice, at one point pinning a prospect to the boards and pulling his jersey over his head. Guys were trying to change and JT Miller would wave them back onto the ice. It was pretty hysterical to watch, but the point is, their work out was done in half ice or less, then they used full ice for some fun.  

but still, no one says you can't cut the ice in half in the other direction and skate the full 200.

[No Politics]

I'm not saying full-ice practices should be the norm, but kids DO need at least a portion of practice time to be full-ice.  When I used to coach, it was about a 75/25 split.  We'd have two hours of practice per week (two one-hour practices).  One practice would be half an hour full-ice, and half an hour half-ice.  The other practice would be five to ten minutes full-ice (skating warm-ups with two teams), then fifty minutes 1/2 ice for each team.  Worked well.

There are too many drills that require full (or at least 3/4) ice, and too many team concepts require full-ice.  So I think it is correct to say most training can be done with half-ice, but there is no replacing that necessary full-ice component.

It's not an either/or argument.

[Saucey]

That's the thing, when you hit an age where you are only getting an ice touch or so a week (the programs we skate for assume you are playing high school) full ice is kind of important.

[muckerandgrinder]

6 hours ago, No Politics said:

I'm not saying full-ice practices should be the norm, but kids DO need at least a portion of practice time to be full-ice.  When I used to coach, it was about a 75/25 split.  We'd have two hours of practice per week (two one-hour practices).  One practice would be half an hour full-ice, and half an hour half-ice.  The other practice would be five to ten minutes full-ice (skating warm-ups with two teams), then fifty minutes 1/2 ice for each team.  Worked well.

There are too many drills that require full (or at least 3/4) ice, and too many team concepts require full-ice.  So I think it is correct to say most training can be done with half-ice, but there is no replacing that necessary full-ice component.

It's not an either/or argument.

To my point exactly. And the older kids definitely need full ice but not all of the time. How people can expect 75% of practices to be full ice baffles me. Then again, during the season most full ice practices offered are usually at 7-8 a.m. or 8-9 p.m. Per my experiences, the parents salivating over full ice are the same ones who complain about it being too early or hitting in the way of their Saturday evening plans. 
And as previously stated, the way things are around here anymore, if a team had 30 full ice slots their coaches and managers would use 25 of them for games instead of practice. Then everyone would be butt hurt about only having 5 full ice slots. Lol
Thus is life in youth hockey. 

Edited March 2, 2023 by muckerandgrinder

[miked]

understand completely that there does have to be some element of full ice to tie together all 3 zones, but if coaches would work together, smaller surface practices could become more effective, thereby decreasing the need for as many full ice slots, keeping costs down. 

1 hour ago, muckerandgrinder said:

hen everyone would be butt hurt about only having 5 full ice slots. Lol

 

yea, you are spot on  i'm so tired of having this discussion with some parent year over year. 

"My superstar special snowflake plays on the Squirt 17 team, and it's not fair, I demand we have all full ice practices."

Really now?, We have X number of teams paying for ice here, which one(s) of them do you think we should take the ice away from? and do you expect them to continue to pay for it? Are you willing to double your fees since you are doubling your ice?

"grumble, grumble, it's not fair, this association sucks, i'm taking my kid to <insert mystical elsewhere association that gives all full ice slots for half the cost>"

but on the bright side, think of all the jerseys the kid will have collected to decorate his mancave when his beer league buddies are over!!!

[miked]

@Saucey

My rant wasn't aimed at you. I understand when you have one practice a week you have to cram as much as you can into that slot. but there are still options. You could talk to your association about setting up some 20-40-20 ice slots where Team 1 practice is 20 minutes full - then Team 2 takes the ice and both teams have 40 minutes half - then Team 1 leaves and Team 2 has 20 minutes full. Then the coaches could work together on the half ice slots from time to time to break into 3/4 1/4 breakdowns. There's lots of options to get the kids the ice they need and still keep costs under control.  

[Saucey]

1 hour ago, miked said:

@Saucey

My rant wasn't aimed at you. I understand when you have one practice a week you have to cram as much as you can into that slot. but there are still options. You could talk to your association about setting up some 20-40-20 ice slots where Team 1 practice is 20 minutes full - then Team 2 takes the ice and both teams have 40 minutes half - then Team 1 leaves and Team 2 has 20 minutes full. Then the coaches could work together on the half ice slots from time to time to break into 3/4 1/4 breakdowns. There's lots of options to get the kids the ice they need and still keep costs under control.  

I didn't take any offense. My kids get plenty of ice, but I know that isn't the case for everyone. And I agree, more could be done to use the ice creatively but I guess....once you reach a certain age and if the level of play isn't that high, you aren't going to have organizations be that concerned. Same with whoever you can find to coach those teams. 

It is more normal than not now to jump around. We didn't, but I feel like we are the weirdos now. Feels rare.

[RJUSHL]

South Pittsburgh Rebellion posted pictures of the construction of the second sheet starting at Printscape. I guess it is happening after all. 

[bb2j3z]

yes.. this is from today.

[GrumpyOldPucker]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:29 PM, Saucey said:

1/2 ice doesn't work as well when they get bigger. My kids hate them. Just don't feel like they get a good enough skate.

Half ice is only good for close area and skills drills, and working on O\D zone specific position\plays\schemes  You cannot teach a 200 foot game in 100 feet..... No way to learn a breakout with an explosive acceleration out of the D zone and full speed transition through the neutral all the way to the net second nature.

[BeaverFalls]

4 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said:

Half ice is only good for close area and skills drills, and working on O\D zone specific position\plays\schemes  You cannot teach a 200 foot game in 100 feet..... No way to learn a breakout with an explosive acceleration out of the D zone and full speed transition through the neutral all the way to the net second nature.

USA hockey doesn’t even acknowledge half of the game. 

[Lifelongbender]

12 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said:

Half ice is only good for close area and skills drills, and working on O\D zone specific position\plays\schemes  You cannot teach a 200 foot game in 100 feet..... No way to learn a breakout with an explosive acceleration out of the D zone and full speed transition through the neutral all the way to the net second nature.

You can learn alot on half ice. But you also can't work on the all important zone entry, and since you have to carry a puck out of the zone rather than ice it on the PK, you can't really work on that very well either.

[hockedude]

11 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

USA hockey doesn’t even acknowledge half of the game. 

Reading this stuff is so funny, I am pretty far removed from youth hockey but playing at a pretty competitive level and this is exactly the same problem we've been having. Our coach works for USA hockey, and we spend 75% of our practice doing small area games. The entire team hates it and feel like we aren't prepared for actual games. It's causing a lot of drama within our team. 

[RJUSHL]

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/south-pittsburgh-rebellion-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

South Pittsburgh Rebellion joining AHF for the 2023-24 season.

So Black Bear affiliated organizations in the area:

Badgers - AHF
Rebellion - AHF
Esmark - THF
Preds - THF
Yetis - THF

Am I missing any?

Edited April 13, 2023 by RJUSHL

[forbin]

Looks like Rebellion is a showcase only organization which means they still play PAHL and replace one or two travel tournaments with the AHF showcases?

Im actually a big fan of this because the AHF showcases are not stay to play.

[Rebel Panther]

2 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/south-pittsburgh-rebellion-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

South Pittsburgh Rebellion joining AHF for the 2023-24 season.

So Black Bear affiliated organizations in the area:

Badgers - AHF
Rebellion - AHF
Esmark - THF
Preds - THF
Yetis - THF

Am I missing any?

The Rebellion 14U girls team was part of the TGHF last year.  The 2009BY team is now affiliated with the AHF.   

I have two kids playing with the Rebellion.  Great organization.

Edited April 14, 2023 by Rebel Panther

[kid310050]

3 hours ago, RJUSHL said:

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/south-pittsburgh-rebellion-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

South Pittsburgh Rebellion joining AHF for the 2023-24 season.

So Black Bear affiliated organizations in the area:

Badgers - AHF
Rebellion - AHF
Esmark - THF
Preds - THF
Yetis - THF

Am I missing any?

Mon Valley I believe is too

[Carl Racki]

AHF is a joke in my opinion.  Look at their teams rankings.  Just traveling a lot further to play PAHL AA type teams.  Great