Black Bear Starting to move in on Youth Hockey??

[HockeyFan6687]

If the AHF is run anything like it’s clone the EJEPL, you are in for what makes a schedule with little or no time off all season.  It would be preferable to stay with PAHL and tournament play.  Read the AHF Facebook page. It’s full of endless complaints.  Appears to be very poorly run.  
 

when you are the monopoly and the money is flowing, why care?  
 

Bottom line, youth sports is a business these days. 

[RJUSHL]

I dunno, seems like a combo PAHL/AHF situation is pretty appealing. Better than doing five random MyHockey type tournaments where you end up facing a PAHL team from Pittsburgh. Doing AHF showcases and then the resulting playoffs if the team qualifies as well as PAHL doesn't seem like a bad situation.

AHF also seems to do a good job with stats and they also put together all star teams and all star games for top performers in each division. I'm sure the AHF is not perfect but they seem to be doing some innovative things. Their Krach rating is interesting and makes sense for unbalanced schedules, and I'm sure they don't do a FPP.

Edited April 14, 2023 by RJUSHL

[pickle]

1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

I dunno, seems like a combo PAHL/AHF situation is pretty appealing. Better than doing five random MyHockey type tournaments where you end up facing a PAHL team from Pittsburgh. Doing AHF showcases and then the resulting playoffs if the team qualifies as well as PAHL doesn't seem like a bad situation.

AHF also seems to do a good job with stats and they also put together all star teams and all star games for top performers in each division. I'm sure the AHF is not perfect but they seem to be doing some innovative things. Their Krach rating is interesting and makes sense for unbalanced schedules, and I'm sure they don't do a FPP.

I can't believe I am saying this - but I actually agree with this.  I think if PAHL did similar things like All-star games - including even the A Major and A Minor players - three separate divisions (AA, A Major and A Minor), perhaps explore moving teams up/down divisions around middle of season if don't get some placements right (yes I know logistics around game schedules), hire a video crew and do a featured game of the week like PIHL, etc., perhaps it would make it more fun and keep more players and teams around.  It would just be nice to see some innovation.  It will be interesting to see what the new leadership does.

[No Politics]

Huskies 15U are AHF, too, according to their website.

 

[Icebucket]

I saw on the huskies site they had one of those fancy black bear flyers for their teams and it listed that they are pushing for birth year teams at every major age. Think they have an actual chance to field AA teams from bottom up?

[YardSale]

27 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

I saw on the huskies site they had one of those fancy black bear flyers for their teams and it listed that they are pushing for birth year teams at every major age. Think they have an actual chance to field AA teams from bottom up?

Eventually, yes.  This season, no

[RJUSHL]

I think everyone knew this was coming but Allegheny Badgers joined the Atlantic Hockey Federation (Black Bear league) for next season. 

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/allegheny-badgers-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

The announcement says 18UAA, 2008 AA, and 2009 AA.

I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.

Obviously Black Bear wants to gobble up market share, but this is going to be pretty appealing for parents and kids. They get to compete for a PAHL AA championship, and they also get to compete for an AHF championship. Also have the chance to make the AHF all star game for their particular division.

Badgers AA and Rebellion AA teams are going to keep getting stronger because of this I would think.

This is all stuff people on this board have been predicting for the past few years. By next season there will be an entire AHF "west" division.

And with Tier 1 hockey and Esmark continuing to struggle and may not even field teams at all birth years, it's just a matter of time before Black Bear starts their own Tier 1 program. There's precedent for this. They've done it before. They are leaving so much money on the table with AAA registrations at Preds and SHAHA. 

I'll be shocked if Black Bear doesn't start their own brand new Tier 1 program out of Printscape (now that they have two sheets of ice). It's just too obvious.

Edited April 20, 2023 by RJUSHL

[Icebucket]

12 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

I think everyone knew this was coming but Allegheny Badgers joined the Atlantic Hockey Federation (Black Bear league) for next season. 

https://atlantichockeyfederation.com/allegheny-badgers-join-for-the-2023-24-season/

The announcement says 18UAA, 2008 AA, and 2009 AA.

I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.

Obviously Black Bear wants to gobble up market share, but this is going to be pretty appealing for parents and kids. They get to compete for a PAHL AA championship, and they also get to compete for an AHF championship. Also have the chance to make the AHF all star game for their particular division.

Badgers AA and Rebellion AA teams are going to keep getting stronger because of this I would think.

This is all stuff people on this board have been predicting for the past few years. By next season there will be an entire AHF "west" division.

And with Tier 1 hockey and Esmark continuing to struggle and may not even field teams at all birth years, it's just a matter of time before Black Bear starts their own Tier 1 program. There's precedent for this. They've done it before. They are leaving so much money on the table with AAA registrations at Preds and SHAHA. 

I'll be shocked if Black Bear doesn't start their own brand new Tier 1 program out of Printscape (now that they have two sheets of ice). It's just too obvious.

The Allegheny 16u team didn't play PAHL last year so I doubt those guys moving up to 18u will this year.

[fafa fohi]

“I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.”

I’m not so sure about that as that same coach and group of players that will make up the U18 AA team played as an independent last season as a U16 AA team.  They turned their noses up at PAHL before so It would not surprise me if they did the same thing this year.

Edited April 20, 2023 by fafa fohi

[RJUSHL]

6 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

“I'm assuming they are doing what it appears the Rebellion are doing: playing PAHL but then also playing a partial season or showcase season in the AHF.”

I’m not so sure about that as that same coach and group of players that will make up the U18 AA team played as an independent last season as a U16 AA team.  They turned their noses up at PAHL before so It would not surprise me if they did the same thing this year.

Oh I didn't know that. Hopefully the 08 and 09 continue to play PAHL and just add on an AHF partial season.

[Carl Racki]

56 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Oh I didn't know that. Hopefully the 08 and 09 continue to play PAHL and just add on an AHF partial season.

I hope so too.  There is nothing like traveling four or five hours to play PAHL type teams all the time and not playing PAHL/local.  Super smart.  Oh wait, another black bear money grab raising the cost further to play hockey.

That's probably even worse than the independent wanna be AAA teams that travel all over in the new wanna be AAA league with all AA teams in it that black bear has.  Next thing you know black bear will be starting a AA inhouse league for house teams that travels around the east coast.  (Get it, in house traveling Lol, makes as much sense as the other leagues).

[HockeyFan6687]

Just out of curiosity… has there been any discussion with PAHL about BB and the possibility of organizations being “owned” by the rink/BB as a for-profit entity?  
 

I would think that would have been mentioned before tryouts and maybe it has for all I know.  
 

The fact that youth sports has pretty much  become a business is creating a potential negative direction and pricing some families right out of the game.  It’s sad. 

[Saucey]

11 hours ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

Just out of curiosity… has there been any discussion with PAHL about BB and the possibility of organizations being “owned” by the rink/BB as a for-profit entity?  
 

I would think that would have been mentioned before tryouts and maybe it has for all I know.  
 

The fact that youth sports has pretty much  become a business is creating a potential negative direction and pricing some families right out of the game.  It’s sad. 

Youth sports is big business, and the lengths people will go to in parting families from their money is disgusting. They don't care. I belong to a discussion group and a parent posted asking if a mass email they received for a camp was a money grab, and of course it was. The amount of justification that the guys making money from these camps gave, and the offense they took over it being called a money grab, was mind boggling. All the parent wanted to know was whether it was a mass email or if they should believe what the email said.

Then advertise it only as a camp. Don't couch it in all that language designed to make that parent believe that a scout somehow saw their kid play. You know what kids and parents are thinking when you pepper the email with 'personal invite' and mention 'get noticed' and whatever. If someone is savvy enough to ask, they deserve an answer. They aren't targeting that email to the kids who already have an invite to the main camp.

Not everyone has the money to spend on 'getting the experience'.

You want to make money off other people's dreams and mislead them into parting with their money, too bad if someone lets the air out of the balloon. 

All this hand wringing over the bad behavior of parents in the stands.....they are responsible for their behavior. But the sport should take a look at their own part in helping to create this monster. People weren't always trying to live off youth sports. 

What those guys were really upset about was... don't kill my cash cow by confirming that their main interest in sending you that email was your checkbook, not your kid.

[HockeyFan6687]

Anyone know how the Huskies tryouts have gone this far?   Seems like a risky business decision to do this. 

[HockeyFan6687]

Seeing how tryouts went this year and particularly at 09 so I’m seeing and hearing that a bunch of the Esmark AAA kids that lost their team ended up on the Allegheny team.  How much does Black Bear have an influence on that from the top down being that both rinks, the organizations and management as well as organizations involved all seem to be linked together in multiple ways? Think of the competitive advantage that gives black Bear.  When one rink is short players at a given level they can simply shift em around to make top contending teams.  It then creates a major issue of competitive integrity and leaves a lot of PAHL organizations at non BB rinks at a competitive disadvantage. 

[Carl Racki]

1 hour ago, HockeyFan6687 said:

Seeing how tryouts went this year and particularly at 09 so I’m seeing and hearing that a bunch of the Esmark AAA kids that lost their team ended up on the Allegheny team.  How much does Black Bear have an influence on that from the top down being that both rinks, the organizations and management as well as organizations involved all seem to be linked together in multiple ways? Think of the competitive advantage that gives black Bear.  When one rink is short players at a given level they can simply shift em around to make top contending teams.  It then creates a major issue of competitive integrity and leaves a lot of PAHL organizations at non BB rinks at a competitive disadvantage. 

I disagree.  Crazy parents will run to whatever organization they "think" is the best.  Lots of the Esmark players went to Preds.  Guessing because it is a far closer rink and why drive that far to play for the same caliber team.  Same with the Esmark kids that went to Badgers.  Probably went there after not making other teams because it was close.  

The thing I hate about BB is they buy up numerous rinks in the same area (PIA, Center Ice, Rostraver,..) and then they can fix ice prices, force their league,...  Then your only option is a far drive to escape them.

Crazy parents is want causes all the kids running from org to org.  Some just have to run because if they don't they will be stuck with a horrible team or like in the case of the 09 Esmark, no team at all.

[e72923]

On 11/30/2022 at 1:05 PM, Corsi said:

You are probably correct that the rink is not he investment for them, but having another local rink available to host AHF showcase weekends in the future is probably more of the idea.  

there's no way they can currently play games at high levels there with the boards situation

[stickboy]

Did you just come out of hibernation?

[dazedandconfused]

20 minutes ago, stickboy said:

Did you just come out of hibernation?

Maybe an alien civilization has found us.

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, dazedandconfused said:

Maybe an alien civilization has found us.