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On 12/17/2022 at 2:01 PM, dazedandconfused said:

Danner..... he's such a clown. Full of contempt for everything because his kids didn't "make it" so he belittles E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G

The OHL has 20 teams. The USHL has 16. Here are the last 4 NHL drafts going back to pre-covid days

 

2022 NHL draft

USHL - 57 players

OHL - 35 players

 

2021 NHL draft

USHL - 50 players

OHL - 30 players

 

2020 NHL draft

USHL - 51 players

OHL - 31 players

 

2019 NHL draft

USHL - 52 players

OHL - 25 players

 

So...... for those who asked I think these facts should speak for themselves? But we all know the world today doesn't believe in facts..... it just gives in to those who yell the loudest.

 

 

 

So what’s your point ? We all know where most of the pros come from - Canadian major a, the ushl and a few euro leauges.
 

Look at the last 3 years of ncaa division 1 kids and the junior leagues they came from. 

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https://collegehockeyinc.com/articles/2020/06/paths-to-ncaa-show-need-for-patience.php
 

note - when it says “usphl” that is the ncdc, players that moved up from the ncdc to another leauge or the rare kid that moved up from premier to the ncdc. The usphl lumps all their leauges together for marketing purposes. Look at the NA3 - one kid who had a quick stop and moved up to the nahl. That’s probaly on par with the usphl premier. 
 

the majority of ncaa d1 players come form the USHL, NAHL & BCHL. That’s around 85% of all ncaa d1 college hockey players. Straight out of prep school and mn hs comes close to the ncdc number. 
 

there is your facts. 

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47 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

https://collegehockeyinc.com/articles/2020/06/paths-to-ncaa-show-need-for-patience.php
 

note - when it says “usphl” that is the ncdc, players that moved up from the ncdc to another leauge or the rare kid that moved up from premier to the ncdc. The usphl lumps all their leauges together for marketing purposes. Look at the NA3 - one kid who had a quick stop and moved up to the nahl. That’s probaly on par with the usphl premier. 
 

the majority of ncaa d1 players come form the USHL, NAHL & BCHL. That’s around 85% of all ncaa d1 college hockey players. Straight out of prep school and mn hs comes close to the ncdc number. 
 

there is your facts. 


Just to play devil's advocate a bit here, your stats show paths to NCAA. The @dazedandconfused shows players drafted into the NHL from the OHL vs from the USHL. Although there are very limited circumstances where OHL players can play NCAA, it almost never happens. So it's not quite an apples to apples comparison since "success" is measured differently.

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35 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:


Just to play devil's advocate a bit here, your stats show paths to NCAA. The @dazedandconfused shows players drafted into the NHL from the OHL vs from the USHL. Although there are very limited circumstances where OHL players can play NCAA, it almost never happens. So it's not quite an apples to apples comparison since "success" is measured differently.

I agree, I’m not sure why he even posted those stats. We all know the path to the pros, how special those players are etc. I’m assuming he thinks tier 3 juniors is good in response to mine about junior hockey leauge rankings ?  I don’t know, so I posted the paths to ncaa d1 - what leauges the players come from. 
 

maybe that article will help all these parents paying to play in tier 3 or the low Canadian leauges. 

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On 12/16/2022 at 10:21 AM, dazedandconfused said:

Who are "they"?

I see that's what Forbin said but I didn't realize that Forbin was the Commissioner of the USHL either.

The USHL website has nothing on it about future expansion so if you know where there is something other than Forbin's opinion then please enlighten us instead of being a massengale's product.

It was sarcasm.  Next time I will try to be more clear 

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17 hours ago, Danner27 said:

maybe that article will help all these parents paying to play in tier 3 or the low Canadian leauges. 

Help them do what?  Decide that they are wasting their time?  Maybe the kids just want to play! Maybe the parents don't care what it costs!  I know, I know, They all should just get on with their lives and the only ones that should be still playing after 18 are the players Danner decides are good enough.

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21 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I’m assuming he thinks tier 3 juniors is good in response to mine about junior hockey leauge rankings ?

Can you enlighten me as to what response you are referencing? The one where I said that you belittle everything?

Because you do. Everything sucks. No one should play hockey past 10U unless they are AA or higher because.... well, I'm bitter and everyone should just quit the game.

Have you considered a therapist?

 

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I appreciate what Danner posts. People do get caught in these leagues thinking it is going to lead to something. A lot of those junior tes are incredibly shady. It's good someone explains it! Some people really appreciate the help! We should all be so lucky to have hockeyisgreat to be the constant cheerleader on this board!

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1 hour ago, Saucey said:

I appreciate what Danner posts. People do get caught in these leagues thinking it is going to lead to something. A lot of those junior tes are incredibly shady. It's good someone explains it! Some people really appreciate the help! We should all be so lucky to have hockeyisgreat to be the constant cheerleader on this board!

 both Danner and hockeyisgreat make very valid points. like Danner said, there are bad apples out there that are in it for the money grab and will tell a kid anything they want to hear to get the kids to play for them and pay. But I also believe there are good apples that are realistic with the kids and tell them the truth. And I also agree with HIG in that who cares what a parent and kid do with their money, it is their money. And also I think if a kid wants to play juniors just for the experience of being on the ice a lot, traveling on a team bus, playing in different cities, living in a different city and the desire to get better at a game they love, who is anyone to say they are wasting their time? Just like everything else in our world, there are good actors and bad actors involved. It happens in every youth sport I have ever witnessed. It happens in corporate America, it happens in religious America, it happens in American government. There are good and bad people involved in every aspect of life. 
 

In the end, both make good points. Both viewpoints should probably be heard. 


 

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12 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

In the end, both make good points. Both viewpoints should probably be heard. 


 

There has been a very vocal contingent on this forum actively trying to shut Danner up. I could go for what happy hockey fan says. I could also go for less digs and personal attacks on people. Where is that getting us in society?

I don't care how you spend your money, either, so long as that money is being spent eyes wide open. If you've got 15,000 to spend on your kid's gap year to let him just play hockey, and understand that it isn't going to land them in the pros, or you don't care too much about their high school education, have at it.  But I do think it is wrong for a league to combine all their tiers and market their III tier to families as a viable option to get to the NHL. It's just wrong. Preying on children's dreams and a parent's desire to give their kid the best. Yuck yuck yuck.

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23 hours ago, Saucey said:

There has been a very vocal contingent on this forum actively trying to shut Danner up. I could go for what happy hockey fan says. I could also go for less digs and personal attacks on people. Where is that getting us in society?

I don't care how you spend your money, either, so long as that money is being spent eyes wide open. If you've got 15,000 to spend on your kid's gap year to let him just play hockey, and understand that it isn't going to land them in the pros, or you don't care too much about their high school education, have at it.  But I do think it is wrong for a league to combine all their tiers and market their III tier to families as a viable option to get to the NHL. It's just wrong. Preying on children's dreams and a parent's desire to give their kid the best. Yuck yuck yuck.

Saucey, just curious what you mean about not caring about their high school education?  If it's a gap year?  I do value Danners opinions but does he always have to be so negative and put down people that don't agree with him.

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Saucey, just curious what you mean about not caring about their high school education?  If it's a gap year?  I do value Danners opinions but does he always have to be so negative and put down people that don't agree with him.

Some people pull their kids to play juniors and cyber school them. If it's one of the leagues where you know they advance to the NHl, 'k I get it, but these others....

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14 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Thanks for the info!  Does that really happen a lot?    10-15 players from Western Pa or more like 5?

I really have no idea but I know of a few. It wasn't something my family wanted. I believe children should be children before trying to make hockey as a career, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why people who have children with the talent to do it will take the chance.

You don't get a second chance to go to prom, cut up with buddies in class, hang out at a football game...for parents to trust a billet to raise their kid..I kind of think the whole system to create NHL and Division I hockey players blows, quite frankly. It's not a healthy environment for kids and families. Add in how confusing the process is and the inordinate amount of people willing to take advantage of families, and it's not a good scene.

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22 hours ago, Saucey said:

I really have no idea but I know of a few. It wasn't something my family wanted. I believe children should be children before trying to make hockey as a career, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why people who have children with the talent to do it will take the chance.

You don't get a second chance to go to prom, cut up with buddies in class, hang out at a football game...for parents to trust a billet to raise their kid..I kind of think the whole system to create NHL and Division I hockey players blows, quite frankly. It's not a healthy environment for kids and families. Add in how confusing the process is and the inordinate amount of people willing to take advantage of families, and it's not a good scene.

It is the most convoluted way possible. Look how many undrafted players end up making a team eventually compared to other sports. 

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On 12/16/2022 at 9:03 AM, Wes said:

IMHO the RMU D1 programs folded due to the former President of the college.  Not due to lack of interest.

 

The President squashed the program.  The president is now gone and the program is re-instated.  The community financially showed up to support the D1 program for both the men and women's D1 program. 

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On 12/24/2022 at 11:33 AM, Saucey said:

I really have no idea but I know of a few. It wasn't something my family wanted. I believe children should be children before trying to make hockey as a career, but that doesn't mean that I don't understand why people who have children with the talent to do it will take the chance.

You don't get a second chance to go to prom, cut up with buddies in class, hang out at a football game...for parents to trust a billet to raise their kid..I kind of think the whole system to create NHL and Division I hockey players blows, quite frankly. It's not a healthy environment for kids and families. Add in how confusing the process is and the inordinate amount of people willing to take advantage of families, and it's not a good scene.

Not a healthy environment?  Do you know this from experience or just a perception?  My family's experience - homeschooled, then cyber schooled, then off to prep school because of a scholarship that was offered - then juniors and now D1.  Deans list as well.  Both academic and athletic scholarship. Did the proms when schedules allowed, was never really interested in hanging out at football games - (that isn't every high schooled kids cup of tea), billet families have become family to us. Team members are like brothers and located in multiple states and countries - with relationships that continue even after teams are disbanded.  Ask my son if he has regrets?  Not a one.  He is happy, healthy and has direction.  

I understand that sometimes when your only experience is by observation you can have a limited view.  But I get so tired of coming here and seeing so many judgements about parents choices and kid's decisions. I promise this - if you ask my son today if he thinks he missed something because of...fill in the blanks with whatever you posted above - he will laugh it off! His experience was everything he wished for ever since he was a little boy watching the big kids on the ice. 

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9 hours ago, whatever said:

Not a healthy environment?  Do you know this from experience or just a perception?  My family's experience - homeschooled, then cyber schooled, then off to prep school because of a scholarship that was offered - then juniors and now D1.  Deans list as well.  Both academic and athletic scholarship. Did the proms when schedules allowed, was never really interested in hanging out at football games - (that isn't every high schooled kids cup of tea), billet families have become family to us. Team members are like brothers and located in multiple states and countries - with relationships that continue even after teams are disbanded.  Ask my son if he has regrets?  Not a one.  He is happy, healthy and has direction.  

I understand that sometimes when your only experience is by observation you can have a limited view.  But I get so tired of coming here and seeing so many judgements about parents choices and kid's decisions. I promise this - if you ask my son today if he thinks he missed something because of...fill in the blanks with whatever you posted above - he will laugh it off! His experience was everything he wished for ever since he was a little boy watching the big kids on the ice. 

Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad to hear of something positive for a change.  Although it seems that mostly unhappy parents frequent this site!

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11 hours ago, whatever said:

Not a healthy environment?  Do you know this from experience or just a perception?  My family's experience - homeschooled, then cyber schooled, then off to prep school because of a scholarship that was offered - then juniors and now D1.  Deans list as well.  Both academic and athletic scholarship. Did the proms when schedules allowed, was never really interested in hanging out at football games - (that isn't every high schooled kids cup of tea), billet families have become family to us. Team members are like brothers and located in multiple states and countries - with relationships that continue even after teams are disbanded.  Ask my son if he has regrets?  Not a one.  He is happy, healthy and has direction.  

I understand that sometimes when your only experience is by observation you can have a limited view.  But I get so tired of coming here and seeing so many judgements about parents choices and kid's decisions. I promise this - if you ask my son today if he thinks he missed something because of...fill in the blanks with whatever you posted above - he will laugh it off! His experience was everything he wished for ever since he was a little boy watching the big kids on the ice. 

Glad it worked out for your son and I commend him and your family. But he is rare. 

I stand by what I said. I am not the only one, studies done by professionals indicated this is not a great way to grow up. That was years ago, there was legislation posed to prevent this kind of thing. So sorry you are tired of hearing that but yes, this is my opinion. I am sure if people wanted to, they could come up with a way to develop hockey players that isn't so freaking burdensome on kids and families. You play football, you can lead a normal life and go to the NHL or college. I think there is a great deal of criticism that can be leveled against the sport's path and a great deal of room for improvement. 

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2 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Thanks for sharing your experience. Glad to hear of something positive for a change.  Although it seems that mostly unhappy parents frequent this site!

I am not unhappy! Neither are my children. Again, why does one have to be a CONSTANT cheerleader to make you happy?

Someone asked me for my opinion and I gave it. So tired of being told to shut up. Counter my opinion. Don't criticize me for giving it.

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