Exhibit A, B, and C on why officials keep quitting

[Offsides]

Hold on, PIHO did not "look into anything". He owns PIHO, doesn'the?

Edited December 31, 2022 by Offsides

[happygilmore97]

2 minutes ago, Offsides said:

Hold on, PIHO did not "look into anything". He owns PIHO, doesn'the?

Correct. He owns PIHO. Emails that have been posted here, and from what other officials have said, Roberts has stepped down as director of PIHO, as he was apparently ‘already planning on stepping down prior to this,’ however there seems to be no clarification if he is still the owner. He may still silently be the owner and still collecting $$$ from the large amounts of scheduling fees they charge. 

[2muchAAAinWPA]

9 minutes ago, Offsides said:

Hold on, PIHO did not "look into anything". He owns PIHO, doesn'the?

PIHO is an LLC of which he was the CEO of, no longer.  So PIHO already removed him and replaced him = taking action.  He doesnt own PIHO.  He ran it, but no longer as a result of what can assumed was this recent event.  Im sure more coming.  Any time a coach is ejected, its reviewed by the member org, PAHL/PIHL, Mid-am if needed, and the PIHO.  

You should read up more before making false statements.  This is all online from simple google searches.  This is the other problem, too many assume and dont self learn before trying to talk about something.  Read the PIHO and PAHL sites, learn, dont assume!  

At the minimum he should be suspended a game or more by PAHL.  If he is a previous offender, they could come down harsher.  There are rules in place for this, let the system work.  

Edited December 31, 2022 by 2muchAAAinWPA

[happygilmore97]

2 hours ago, Offsides said:

He will not be removed from his PIHO position, as I believe he owns the company.

Apparently Roberts stepped down today, earlier than planned, as he was apparently already ‘planning to step down at the end of this season.’ Seems pretty fishy to me, as there’s no context as to why he was planning on stepping down at the end of this season. However he may still be an owner, as he just stepped down as director. This would allow him to continue to over charge organizations with scheduling fees $$$ and still collect a portion of it. Something for organizations to look into for next season. Go back to independent schedulers, or guys who don’t charge an arm and a leg to click a button on a computer and schedule officials. 

[bb2j3z]

Is he still the head coach of the 2011 Allegheny Badgers team?  I don't see him anywhere on this website either.  https://www.ahabadgers2011.com/staff   Was this at the grit tournament this week?

 

[happygilmore97]

7 minutes ago, 2muchAAAinWPA said:

PIHO is an LLC of which he was the CEO of, no longer.  So PIHO already removed him and replaced him = taking action.  He doesnt own PIHO.  He ran it, but no longer as a result of what can assumed was this recent event.  Im sure more coming.  Any time a coach is ejected, its reviewed by the member org, PAHL/PIHL, Mid-am if needed, and the PIHO.  

You should read up more before making false statements.  This is all online from simple google searches.  This is the other problem, too many assume and dont self learn before trying to talk about something.  Read the PIHO and PAHL sites, learn, dont assume!  

At the minimum he should be suspended a game or more by PAHL.  If he is a previous offender, they could come down harsher.  There are rules in place for this, let the system work.  

Apparently the team he was coaching is not part of PAHL, and they are independent. It’s being looked at by midam and the badgers organization as a whole. 

[Offsides]

18 minutes ago, 2muchAAAinWPA said:

PIHO is an LLC of which he was the CEO of, no longer.  So PIHO already removed him and replaced him = taking action.  He doesnt own PIHO.  He ran it, but no longer as a result of what can assumed was this recent event.  Im sure more coming.  Any time a coach is ejected, its reviewed by the member org, PAHL/PIHL, Mid-am if needed, and the PIHO.  

You should read up more before making false statements.  This is all online from simple google searches.  This is the other problem, too many assume and dont self learn before trying to talk about something.  Read the PIHO and PAHL sites, learn, dont assume!  

At the minimum he should be suspended a game or more by PAHL.  If he is a previous offender, they could come down harsher.  There are rules in place for this, let the system work.  

Dude, settle down and keep your blinders on.

 

He started PIHO and was/is the key person behind it--and who knows what the behind the scenes tinkering that is going on. Maybe since you have his back your kid will get assigned more games.

[2muchAAAinWPA]

8 minutes ago, Offsides said:

Dude, settle down and keep your blinders on.

 

He started PIHO and was/is the key person behind it--and who knows what the behind the scenes tinkering that is going on. Maybe since you have his back your kid will get assigned more games.

I rest my case!  Thanks for the shining example of what i was saying.  He is out and should have been, please quote me where i said i have his back.  Again, read, self educate and speak in facts.  You should really learn not to assign emotion to others words. 

Edited December 31, 2022 by 2muchAAAinWPA

[ReffyTheCunt]

The reason I quit is parents and coaches acting like this. It has nothing to do with the guy behind the bench and the position he may hold and everything to do with the culture that has permeated our sport. The problems extend beyond this specific incident. 

[nemesis8679]

32 minutes ago, ReffyTheCunt said:

The reason I quit is parents and coaches acting like this. It has nothing to do with the guy behind the bench and the position he may hold and everything to do with the culture that has permeated our sport. The problems extend beyond this specific incident. 

Your point? 

[ReffyTheCunt]

1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

Your point? 

That if we want to keep officials we need to get coaches and parents to clean up their act

[Offsides]

50 minutes ago, ReffyTheCunt said:

That if we want to keep officials we need to get coaches and parents to clean up their act

You are correct, but when you have a "so-called" official of this caliber in a coaching position who also runs an officiating organization acting like this then they are part of the problem, a bit part.

This guy and his board seem to be nothing more than masters of wordplay when they cannot even acknowledge what has happened. I am sure the PIHO Partners are proud to be associated with this type of behavior.

[Denis Lemiuex]

On a side note. Collin is a quality individual and a terrific ref.

[deanyoungblood]

All the pearl clutching and faux outrage on here makes me laugh. I’d be willing to bet most of you are out there every weekend in the stands yelling at amateur refs and acting like clowns. Hockey around here is in trouble. Big trouble. What the individual in question did was abhorrent. Unfortunately it’s become all too common. Especially around these parts. So it’s not even surprising anymore.  Look at this thread, we have people still making excuses and defending the indefensible conduct from that Huskies game a couple years ago when we had coaches contacting refs on their personal cell phones sending clips and telling them how bad they are.  I wouldn’t want to become a ref either. nor would I want to be a scheduler. Too much hockey not enough refs. Simple math equation. Sounds like you all have it figured out though. PIHO took over for independent schedulers because it wasn’t working out, so I’m not sure going back to that is the answer. Anyway, have a blessed new year!
 

[happygilmore97]

50 minutes ago, deanyoungblood said:

All the pearl clutching and faux outrage on here makes me laugh. I’d be willing to bet most of you are out there every weekend in the stands yelling at amateur refs and acting like clowns. Hockey around here is in trouble. Big trouble. What the individual in question did was abhorrent. Unfortunately it’s become all too common. Especially around these parts. So it’s not even surprising anymore.  Look at this thread, we have people still making excuses and defending the indefensible conduct from that Huskies game a couple years ago when we had coaches contacting refs on their personal cell phones sending clips and telling them how bad they are.  I wouldn’t want to become a ref either. nor would I want to be a scheduler. Too much hockey not enough refs. Simple math equation. Sounds like you all have it figured out though. PIHO took over for independent schedulers because it wasn’t working out, so I’m not sure going back to that is the answer. Anyway, have a blessed new year!
 

Everywhere that uses independent schedulers to my knowledge is thriving. A big reason for that is because guys do not have to wait 4-6 months for their game checks, like PIHO officials do. Also independent schedulers charge $0-$7 per game to schedule. PIHO is charging organizations around $20+, per game, to schedule. Plus, if that game gets cancelled or rescheduled, they charge another fee. Also, the PIHO motto is a joke. They’re all about providing ‘evaluation’s and advancement.’ However what they don’t tell you is the evaluator is at home sitting on his couch getting paid $75 an hour to watch a LiveBarn video and then after that game he sends the officials an email with an evaluation. The only place their evaluations have gotten local officials is a midnight beer league slot at Lemieux. 

[deanyoungblood]

14 minutes ago, happygilmore97 said:

Everywhere that uses independent schedulers to my knowledge is thriving. A big reason for that is because guys do not have to wait 4-6 months for their game checks, like PIHO officials do. Also independent schedulers charge $0-$7 per game to schedule. PIHO is charging organizations around $20+, per game, to schedule. Plus, if that game gets cancelled or rescheduled, they charge another fee. Also, the PIHO motto is a joke. They’re all about providing ‘evaluation’s and advancement.’ However what they don’t tell you is the evaluator is at home sitting on his couch getting paid $75 an hour to watch a LiveBarn video and then after that game he sends the officials an email with an evaluation. The only place their evaluations have gotten local officials is a midnight beer league slot at Lemieux. 

70% of your post is not factual.

[Offsides]

Organizations that use PIHO are definitely charged more than other schedulers are doing, and they are getting the same officials because there is no hidden group of officials skating exclusively for anyone. Bottom line is there is more than option for people, and that is a good thing. People who buy into an empty  sales pitch ultimately see that once an agreement is made, this is factual.

Edited January 1, 2023 by Offsides

[Carl Racki]

What rink and time did this happen?

[Offsides]

3 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

What rink and time did this happen?

UPMC Lemieux, GRIT Tournament, all I know

[deanyoungblood]

7 hours ago, Offsides said:

Organizations that use PIHO are definitely charged more than other schedulers are doing, and they are getting the same officials because there is no hidden group of officials skating exclusively for anyone. Bottom line is there is more than option for people, and that is a good thing. People who buy into an empty  sales pitch ultimately see that once an agreement is made, this is factual.

Why do organizations continue to re-up with PIHO?  I think PIHL, CHMA, CHE, PPE, Esmark, have all renewed contracts several times over. Seems like PAHL teams continue to move away from independent schedulers. Allegheny, Vipers, Westmoreland, Mon Valley, North Pgh, etc. 

If you aren’t getting your money’s worth then what are you doing?

I can tell you some of the organizations in the area that still use independent schedulers are a disaster from what I hear and see. 
 

I just don’t think there are many people who want to get involved which is why there’s value to just hiring an outside org. Just my $.02. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

I am pretty amazed that there is so much money to be made as a referee scheduling agent that a company can be formed to make enough money to support the corporate structure at PIHO. 
 

I understand scheduling for any events that are not regularly scheduled isn’t an easy task. Even with the technology available for schedulers it isn’t always as easy as putting out a sign up sheet and all your slots get filled. There will be plenty of times that some recruiting with more emails and phone calls are going to happen in order to fill your slots. So while the scheduling isn’t effort free, I don’t think the extra effort should require so much compensation as to have a business with multiple executives. 
 

I would however support the compensation IF a company was also dedicated to to the improvement of officiating. Somewhere on here someone mentioned that PIHO actually evaluated their referees( which sounds like a job for USA hockey to me but is a whole different subject) but were done via LiveBarn. A good idea to evaluate, bad idea to do it by poor video.  It sounds like they maybe sold organizations that they would help improve officiating by doing these evaluations, without revealing they wouldn’t be done live but by watching poor video on a computer, and charging more than they are worth. Obviously a LiveBarn evaluation is not going to be good because of the poor video and unbalanced viewpoints. But like I said, if they were doing actual evaluations and improving referee performance, the extra money would be worth it. 
 

 

[deanyoungblood]

9 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I am pretty amazed that there is so much money to be made as a referee scheduling agent that a company can be formed to make enough money to support the corporate structure at PIHO. 
 

I understand scheduling for any events that are not regularly scheduled isn’t an easy task. Even with the technology available for schedulers it isn’t always as easy as putting out a sign up sheet and all your slots get filled. There will be plenty of times that some recruiting with more emails and phone calls are going to happen in order to fill your slots. So while the scheduling isn’t effort free, I don’t think the extra effort should require so much compensation as to have a business with multiple executives. 
 

I would however support the compensation IF a company was also dedicated to to the improvement of officiating. Somewhere on here someone mentioned that PIHO actually evaluated their referees( which sounds like a job for USA hockey to me but is a whole different subject) but were done via LiveBarn. A good idea to evaluate, bad idea to do it by poor video.  It sounds like they maybe sold organizations that they would help improve officiating by doing these evaluations, without revealing they wouldn’t be done live but by watching poor video on a computer, and charging more than they are worth. Obviously a LiveBarn evaluation is not going to be good because of the poor video and unbalanced viewpoints. But like I said, if they were doing actual evaluations and improving referee performance, the extra money would be worth it. 
 

 

I believe it’s part of their contract with the PIHL to conduct x number of evaluations per week. Not all are done remote, some are done in person depending on schedules because the veteran refs who probably have the ability to evaluate most likely also skate themselves, so the remote eval is a solution to that because you can watch at any time. 
 

I know there are in-person evaluators because I’ve seen them and said hello to some of them, so again, folks on here just spewing stuff that they know nothing about. 

[aaaahockey]

Any updates from the Badgers organization about this guy continuing to coach? 

[GrumpyOldPucker]

Slight correction on PIHO .... Yes ,Zach is\was the director - or whatever title -  I don't know exactly how it is set up (corp,LLC, etc) but Zach and IIRC at least one other local official founded PIHO and he basically "owns" it. Do your own research on this, don't take my word for it..... It was basically a hostile takeover of WPHOA. Same officials for more money with a minor increase to the officials pay rate.....

[sadday4hockey]

On 1/1/2023 at 12:59 PM, happygilmore97 said:

A big reason for that is because guys do not have to wait 4-6 months for their game checks,

This is a fact. Dean, do you dispute this? And think about it, they sit on how much $$$$ for 3-5 months collecting interest

On 1/1/2023 at 12:59 PM, happygilmore97 said:

independent schedulers charge $0-$7 per game to schedule.

Dean, another fact. Do you dispute it?

On 1/1/2023 at 12:59 PM, happygilmore97 said:

PIHO is charging organizations around $20+, per game,

This is.... actually incorrect as it is $20+, per game/per official but still based in fact

 

So Dean, you say 70% of that post is not factual when it appears the only thing factual that is in dispute is when, where and how much the evaluators get paid to "evaluate".

Now that's a pretty simple equation of 3/4 are factual or 75% and 25% are in question.

The reason the organizations "re-up" is because they aren't educated. I'll bet this causes some to give it more in-depth consideration and as someone else stated, yes this was a hostile takeover of WPHOA. Fact!!