Happy Hockey Fan Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 5 hours ago, deanyoungblood said: I believe it’s part of their contract with the PIHL to conduct x number of evaluations per week. Not all are done remote, some are done in person depending on schedules because the veteran refs who probably have the ability to evaluate most likely also skate themselves, so the remote eval is a solution to that because you can watch at any time. I know there are in-person evaluators because I’ve seen them and said hello to some of them, so again, folks on here just spewing stuff that they know nothing about. Any review done by LiveBarn video is worthless. I never said that no evaluations were done in person. However, I doubt that there are many evaluations done in person as you suggest. I also know many referees, I have been around the game since mid 80’s, never see any watching games in order to evaluate. Maybe if they were more proactive in sharing their information on evaluations people would believe they are done. The secrecy of it all leaves doubt in many people’s minds that they are ever done. And to touch briefly on what I said in last post, why isn’t ISA hockey doing these evaluations? Isn’t it their responsibility? I have been told that they do evaluations as well. But it is my experience, I know plenty of referees, that they are not being evaluated. I would be glad to be wrong, if any refs on here have been evaluated by USA hockey, I’d like to hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldPucker Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) USA Hockey will not PAY for evaluators. National staff tells the district staff that this is to be "funded at the grass roots level" which means the eval coordinator has to go find funding on their own. ANd there is the matter od who will evaluate.... We already acknowledge that we don't have enough officials to actually skate games so where do evaluators come from.... the active officials are gonna skate for the bigger bucks and the retired officials are so disillusioned with USA Hockey, and the attitudes of the parents, players, coaches, and YES the OFFICIALS THEMSELVES that we don't want any part of it anymore..... And generally speaking, the evaluators are supposed to maintain a low profile so they might be there and you never know it. Edited January 2, 2023 by GrumpyOldPucker Added insight on evaluations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hockey Fan Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 20 minutes ago, GrumpyOldPucker said: USA Hockey will not PAY for evaluators. National staff tells the district staff that this is to be "funded at the grass roots level" which means the eval coordinator has to go find funding on their own. ANd there is the matter od who will evaluate.... We already acknowledge that we don't have enough officials to actually skate games so where do evaluators come from.... the active officials are gonna skate for the bigger bucks and the retired officials are so disillusioned with USA Hockey, and the attitudes of the parents, players, coaches, and YES the OFFICIALS THEMSELVES that we don't want any part of it anymore..... And generally speaking, the evaluators are supposed to maintain a low profile so they might be there and you never know it. I don’t have to know when an evaluator is at a game while they are there. But I Think that if they provide a list of games that were evaluated in a monthly report people would have more trust in the system. Why does it have to be so secret? My guess is that it is because referees in general, feel like they don’t have to answer to anybody. And anybody that says I am just an angry parent, just look at the Armstrong/Mars fiasco last year. Those refs received no discipline, even though they were at the least somewhat responsible for letting that abuse go on. But in reality they should have been disciplined for Safe sport violations. And to be honest about the one ref, he has trouble keeping up with the high school game, and yet he still is doing games regularly. His skating is not good enough to be out there, but he is out there time and time again. I know that parents can be obnoxious and deserve to be punished for poor behavior. And there is plenty of evidence that bad parents are disciplined. But I have yet to see a referee disciplined for bad behavior or poor performance. If anyone can give me examples of referees being punished or even just being talked to for poor performance I’d be glad to hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanyoungblood Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 51 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said: I know that parents can be obnoxious and deserve to be punished for poor behavior. And there is plenty of evidence that bad parents are disciplined. Lol exhibit A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hockey Fan Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 53 minutes ago, deanyoungblood said: Lol exhibit A Exactly, there is documented proof of parents being disciplined for bad behavior. Now we need exhibit B of all the discipline issued to refs over the years. But that is non existent, either because there is no discipline enforced on refs, or any discipline is not reported to the people that are paying for the service of these referees. So either there is a lack of discipline or there is a lack of transparency about any discipline. My guess is you are or were a referee. Please tell me of any instances where you were evaluated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey119 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Lots of chatter here….no solutions and few facts. Why can’t we understand Officials are leaving the sport because of behavior like this from Coach’s and Parents?!?! It’s a simple solution, this kind of action is Zero Tolerance = done for the year! Regardless of this coaches position off the bench or whatever company they work with. Do we need to go into each occupation for each coach that gets tossed!?!? Or Parent that gets tossed?!? No, I would agree this Coach, now knowing what he does off the bench, should have had a cooler head. No doubt! Anyone remember Bobby Knight did this all the time!! As a fan, glad to see no one was injured, and the officials handled everything by the book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice is cold Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hockey119 said: Lots of chatter here….no solutions and few facts. Why can’t we understand Officials are leaving the sport because of behavior like this from Coach’s and Parents?!?! It’s a simple solution, this kind of action is Zero Tolerance = done for the year! Regardless of this coaches position off the bench or whatever company they work with. Do we need to go into each occupation for each coach that gets tossed!?!? Or Parent that gets tossed?!? No, I would agree this Coach, now knowing what he does off the bench, should have had a cooler head. No doubt! Anyone remember Bobby Knight did this all the time!! As a fan, glad to see no one was injured, and the officials handled everything by the book! I think his occupation is 100% part of the conversation. He is abusing the refs he is supposed to be protecting. Seems like he is the root of the problem. Edited January 3, 2023 by ice is cold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offsides Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, ice is cold said: I think his occupation is 100% part of the conversation. He is abusing the refs he is supposed to be protecting. Seems like he is the root of the problem. Exactly, well said. 119 seems to be off the mark on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey119 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 16 minutes ago, Hockey119 said: No, I would agree this Coach, now knowing what he does off the bench, should have had a cooler head. No doubt! I did intend to make its position off the bench important. “Zero Tolerance = done for the year.” Regardless of who or what you do. Seems others are more emotionally involved than I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOldPucker Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 Happy Hockey Fan, Unless you are a member of USAH district or national staff, or in a position of administration in a league, you have no right to expect to see such a list of evals any more than you have a right to see the nightly evaluations of NHL officials. AND NO, you do not pay the officials' game fees.... you pay money for your kid to play at xyz org and xyz org in turn pays money to play in abc league... It Is abc league that is responsible for providing officials for their league games and in turn pay for the officials so if anyone gets to see such a list it should be the folks responsible for running the league - not some pissed off self important parent. Just like eval lists, discipline of officials is not normally something made public. I know of two officials that received 1 year USAH suspensions and many other occasions where officials were removed from the schedule for a month or more. The leagues were notified of the actions but it wasn't posted on the interwebs to satisfy the need for a pound of flesh.... Does the HR department where you work send out a memo to all employees detailing infractions and disciplinary actions taken against employees? 5 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanyoungblood Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 10 hours ago, GrumpyOldPucker said: Happy Hockey Fan, Unless you are a member of USAH district or national staff, or in a position of administration in a league, you have no right to expect to see such a list of evals any more than you have a right to see the nightly evaluations of NHL officials. AND NO, you do not pay the officials' game fees.... you pay money for your kid to play at xyz org and xyz org in turn pays money to play in abc league... It Is abc league that is responsible for providing officials for their league games and in turn pay for the officials so if anyone gets to see such a list it should be the folks responsible for running the league - not some pissed off self important parent. Just like eval lists, discipline of officials is not normally something made public. I know of two officials that received 1 year USAH suspensions and many other occasions where officials were removed from the schedule for a month or more. The leagues were notified of the actions but it wasn't posted on the interwebs to satisfy the need for a pound of flesh.... Does the HR department where you work send out a memo to all employees detailing infractions and disciplinary actions taken against employees? ? this post wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 On 12/31/2022 at 9:59 AM, Wes said: https://www.pihoref.com/management How many things can Dave Fryer be in charge of ? The chma, che & piho. He’s set to to be the next Pahl president next year. one of the few good things pihl has done - remove him years ago. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSFBLJ Posted January 3, 2023 Share Posted January 3, 2023 A tip of the hat to the official that ejected this guy. Most officials are to afraid of the repercussions to actually toss someone from a game. You have a game report that needs done and most likely a report that has to be sent to the state as well. People get a lot of room because officials don't want to do the additional work. I'm not sure what happens when a fan is ejected. Most varsity games have security in the stands I think the duty would fall on them to handle fans, not the on ice officials. The officials are responsible for the actions of the players and coaches and people on the ice surface. There needs to be someone else at all other games to handle the crazy people in the stands. You will never see an evaluation of the officials. Does the coach get an evaluation form to fill out after the game? Bottom line you want better officials treat them better. Increase the pay get more younger people working the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saucey Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) Also, most refs are independent contractors. By definition of that status, they are not responsible to anyone. Evaluations....holding them accountable.....as soon as you begin to exert control over that relationship, that is when you get employees. No one wants employees. Benefits, payroll deductions, paying their insurance coverage. Plus, you want them to make calls independent of an organization to keep them neutral. But you could add components to how they get certified. A review of complaints filed, etc. Edited January 4, 2023 by Saucey Made sentence make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 21 hours ago, Danner27 said: How many things can Dave Fryer be in charge of ? The chma, che & piho. He’s set to to be the next Pahl president next year. one of the few good things pihl has done - remove him years ago. When a person is so intertwined into things (DF), it usually isn't a good thing. As one can easily see, the nepotism runs deep in the world of hockey. I don't care for his work with CHE and yet he's now going to run PAHL too... glad I no longer have kids in that org. It was bad enough under Darcee. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 2 hours ago, Wes said: When a person is so intertwined into things (DF), it usually isn't a good thing. As one can easily see, the nepotism runs deep in the world of hockey. I don't care for his work with CHE and yet he's now going to run PAHL too... glad I no longer have kids in that org. It was bad enough under Darcee. I have a few friends who complain about both the chma and the che not communicating well with the acha (missing game scores etc). This is all under DF. I was shocked when I heard Pahl was highering him. My niece will have to suffer through his leadership ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Law Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 I'm pretty sure it's the job of the home team in the CHMA and the CHE to forward game sheets to the ACHA. I might be wrong.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner27 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 10 minutes ago, Law said: I'm pretty sure it's the job of the home team in the CHMA and the CHE to forward game sheets to the ACHA. I might be wrong.... I really don’t know how the process works - parents I know with kids playing in both leauges often talking about how their teams games are never updated with the acha. Looking at both websites right now chma does appear to be up to date, the che is in worse shape - some teams only showing 4-5 games of player & team stats. Acually it appears the che standings are updated but all team stats and player stats are only updated for the first 4-5 games of the season. this looks like a leauge thing. They have the scores, game sheets if the standings are up to date. So the leauge is lazy, they don’t care or the teams don’t care, or somone has their hands in to many things - hasn’t done their job ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanyoungblood Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 It amazes me how people come on these message boards and trash people by name while offering no solutions nor raising their hand to offer their “expertise” (because they could obviously do it better) all while hiding behind an anonymous account name. Carry on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ice is cold Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 1 hour ago, deanyoungblood said: It amazes me how people come on these message boards and trash people by name while offering no solutions nor raising their hand to offer their “expertise” (because they could obviously do it better) all while hiding behind an anonymous account name. Carry on. I'm not sure what exactly you are referencing, but I mean, maybe, based on recent comments, the solution is doing their jobs? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forbin Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 8 hours ago, deanyoungblood said: It amazes me how people come on these message boards and trash people by name while offering no solutions nor raising their hand to offer their “expertise” (because they could obviously do it better) all while hiding behind an anonymous account name. Carry on. Yes, well said Dean Youngblood. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offsides Posted January 8, 2023 Share Posted January 8, 2023 I guess there was a suspension but he quit his coaching job so basically nothing happened other than his so-called earlier than expected resignation from his PIHO position, which many are skeptical of in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tired Hockey Mom Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 This guy is a hothead. 7 years ago when my son was a mite parents asked that he be removed from coaching because he would scream at the kids. Yes, scream at MITE players. His son was a nervous wreck and would cry before and after games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pucks11 Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 44 minutes ago, Tired Hockey Mom said: This guy is a hothead. 7 years ago when my son was a mite parents asked that he be removed from coaching because he would scream at the kids. Yes, scream at MITE players. His son was a nervous wreck and would cry before and after games. Unless he was swearing at them, who cares. I coached Mites and some of the nicest parents I know would HAVE to scream at Mite kids because they don't listen for crap. You have little Johnny skating doing whatever he wants, Timmy going to the boards to wave to Gma and Gpa, Danny riding his stick like a horse, Sammy picking his nose, Alex squirting other kids with a water bottle, Mikey sitting down in the middle of the ice (where he can get hurt), Joey playing rock paper scissors with a kid from the other team with his gloves off, Collin skating in the middle of the ice trying to get other kids to see his new trick he learned at practice the other day and little Brandon swinging his stick everywhere but at the puck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hockeyisgreat Posted January 9, 2023 Share Posted January 9, 2023 22 minutes ago, Pucks11 said: Unless he was swearing at them, who cares. I coached Mites and some of the nicest parents I know would HAVE to scream at Mite kids because they don't listen for crap. You have little Johnny skating doing whatever he wants, Timmy going to the boards to wave to Gma and Gpa, Danny riding his stick like a horse, Sammy picking his nose, Alex squirting other kids with a water bottle, Mikey sitting down in the middle of the ice (where he can get hurt), Joey playing rock paper scissors with a kid from the other team with his gloves off, Collin skating in the middle of the ice trying to get other kids to see his new trick he learned at practice the other day and little Brandon swinging his stick everywhere but at the puck You nailed that Mite practice! Sounds like kids having fun at that age! Isn't that the most important thing. Also it's the coaches job to keep all those mite kids entertained and doing positive hockey things. Your example above has them having to much time on their hands at practice. But I love it and that's the real deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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