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2023-2024 Esmark (PIA & Printscape)


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Looks like montour has 3 goalies on their varsity roster ??‍♂️
 If a varsity program brings in players from out of the district they should have to play up a divison or goto the co op divison. It appears pihl finally went through with all the threats they made to mcort, mcort are in AA this year. That program has always been single A. 

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10 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Once again, I see your point. But let me make a couple more points for letting him play. First, Montour knows it is only going to have one goalie and asks PIHL to schedule games on different nights, which Montour did. PIHL ignores them and schedules games on same nights and even at same time. How does Montour field both teams? This is not fair to the kids that want to play. Your solution of only have one team would work. But once again, that leaves a number of kids that wanted to play unable to play. Is that fair? The second point is, have you ever coached or played on a team with only one goalie? It is a serious problem when the only goalie goes down. You end up playing someone that has never played goalie in net, which is not just an inconvenience, it puts a kid in a spot where injury is highly possible because they don’t know what they are doing. Someone not used to playing the position is now going to be facing 90 MPH slap shots. Not the safest scenario. 
 

I do not necessarily disagree with you that this seems unfair. But since PIHL still scheduled games on the same nights and even at the same time, I’ll give them a pass. If PIHL doesn’t schedule games on that same nights, then maybe I’d lean more towards it being unfair. 
 

 

So anytime a team needs a goalie they should just be able to recruit one? Get a billet ?   How about develop one.  That is what most other teams have to do.  I know recruiting is much easier.  "We don't have a goalie" is not an excuse to recruit one that is not eligible.

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6 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

So anytime a team needs a goalie they should just be able to recruit one? Get a billet ?   How about develop one.  That is what most other teams have to do.  I know recruiting is much easier.  "We don't have a goalie" is not an excuse to recruit one that is not eligible.

I just flipped through the stats in their division of A and I realized that Avonworth has just one goalie for both Varsity and JV.  So it's hard to claim it's not possible.

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6 hours ago, Icebucket said:

I just flipped through the stats in their division of A and I realized that Avonworth has just one goalie for both Varsity and JV.  So it's hard to claim it's not possible.

And if you would have looked further, you would see that their JV and Varsity teams NEVER play on the same night. It is possible when they don’t schedule games at the same time or same day. Not so much when they do.

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20 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Looks like montour has 3 goalies on their varsity roster ??‍♂️
 If a varsity program brings in players from out of the district they should have to play up a divison or goto the co op divison. It appears pihl finally went through with all the threats they made to mcort, mcort are in AA this year. That program has always been single A. 

The third goalie you mention is a forward on the JV. Hasn’t played as a goalie for JV at all. He is only an emergency goalie. He doesn’t even practice as a goalie. 
 

13 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

So anytime a team needs a goalie they should just be able to recruit one? Get a billet ?   How about develop one.  That is what most other teams have to do.  I know recruiting is much easier.  "We don't have a goalie" is not an excuse to recruit one that is not eligible.

How do you develop a goalie if there is no one willing to play? Do you force someone? How does that work? 
 

And once again, if PIHL doesn’t schedule JV and Varsity games on the same night and even at the same time, I guess they don’t need another goalie. But the fact is PIHL DOES schedule Montour games at the same time, but Avonworth has not one JV game on the same day as one of their varsity games. 

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5 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

But it's not fair to the other players.........

My HS team had 4 Seniors and I was the only one that played Ice hockey prior to 9th grade. The other 3 started either in 9th or 10th. We weren't very good, but we were a team and we had fun. Imagine that.

What does this have to do with anything I said? There is a difference between having a choice to play on a poor team, and not having a team to play on because you don’t have a goalie. If you don’t have a goalie, and no one else is willing to play a position they have no experience playing, you don’t even have a team. You were fortunate enough to have enough players and someone willing to play in net, and you had fun. Not the same as a kid that doesn’t have a team to play for, no chance to have fun for them. 

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51 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

What does this have to do with anything I said? There is a difference between having a choice to play on a poor team, and not having a team to play on because you don’t have a goalie. If you don’t have a goalie, and no one else is willing to play a position they have no experience playing, you don’t even have a team. You were fortunate enough to have enough players and someone willing to play in net, and you had fun. Not the same as a kid that doesn’t have a team to play for, no chance to have fun for them. 

You just said that they have another player who is an emergency goalie. Has to make me think he is willing to do so when there are 2 games played on the same night.

You can make all the arguments you want, but at the end of the day it has nothing to do with giving the players a chance to play. It's about Montour doing whatever it takes to be in the best spot to win.

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Hey Happy, just curious since you seem to be a Montour insider (knowing the practice habits of the third goalie) and quite defensive I noticed!! Was the billet goalie added to the roster after the release of the JV and Varsity schedules? And after Montour made an exhaustive attempt to have PIHL adjust the schedule to accommodate JV/Varsity conflicts?

 

Is PIHL really out to punish you, or did Avonworth just had the fortunate coincidence of not a single conflict. Hmm

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6 minutes ago, zam said:

Hey Happy, just curious since you seem to be a Montour insider (knowing the practice habits of the third goalie) and quite defensive I noticed!! Was the billet goalie added to the roster after the release of the JV and Varsity schedules? And after Montour made an exhaustive attempt to have PIHL adjust the schedule to accommodate JV/Varsity conflicts?

 

Is PIHL really out to punish you, or did Avonworth just had the fortunate coincidence of not a single conflict. Hmm

I am a Montour fan, not an insider. My kids have graduated. I know the practice habits of the third goalie because I am friends with the family. 
 

My knowledge of the fact that PIHL schedules JV and Varsity games at the same time comes from 10 years straight of having kids in the program. It happened every year, time and time again. JV teams have played many games with skeleton rosters, sometimes less than 10 skaters.

I don’t know about when the goalie came this year. I do know Montour asked PIHL early on not to schedule games on the same nights because they only had one goalie. I don’t know timing of everything else. I did not mean to imply that PIHL was punishing Montour. My insinuation is that they are lazy and didn’t do the work to figure out a way to not schedule games on the same nights.
 

And as far as Avonworth not having games on the same nights, I was surprised to see that. I figured that they would be in the same predicament as Montour. But somehow, they don’t. Like I said, ten years in a row at Montour, always had both JV and varsity games in same nights. Always, not one year in 10 was there a time that Montour didn’t have games at the same time. 

 

 If Montour didn’t have games on the same night, they should be playing without the billet. However, since the history of ten years straight having games on the same nights, I can see why they were scrambling for another goalie. Not sure of the timing of schedule and this kid moving into the district. That is something I can’t answer. 
 

By the way the varsity backup has played ten games as a starter, he has a 7-3 record, Montour probably would have been pretty good without the billet. Maybe not as good, but still good. 
 

 

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41 minutes ago, Icebucket said:

You just said that they have another player who is an emergency goalie. Has to make me think he is willing to do so when there are 2 games played on the same night.

You can make all the arguments you want, but at the end of the day it has nothing to do with giving the players a chance to play. It's about Montour doing whatever it takes to be in the best spot to win.

You can have your opinion. I can have mine. Why are you so mad? 
 

If you read and understood what I said about the emergency goalie is that he is willing to only be an emergency goalie. He wants nothing to do with playing a full game in net. He has no desire to start at the varsity or JV level. He is an emergency backup, he was willing to do this only. He is a forward on the JV team. If there was a JV game and a varsity game at the same time, he played forward for the JV team. He only has dressed for 2 varsity games and played 8 minutes when someone got hurt. He faced 2 shots and gave up 2 goals. His save percentage is zero. His goals against average is 11.4. But once again, the best answer as for why he didn’t volunteer to be a goalie, he didn’t want to. 

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31 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I am a Montour fan, not an insider. My kids have graduated. I know the practice habits of the third goalie because I am friends with the family. 
 

My knowledge of the fact that PIHL schedules JV and Varsity games at the same time comes from 10 years straight of having kids in the program. It happened every year, time and time again. JV teams have played many games with skeleton rosters, sometimes less than 10 skaters.

I don’t know about when the goalie came this year. I do know Montour asked PIHL early on not to schedule games on the same nights because they only had one goalie. I don’t know timing of everything else. I did not mean to imply that PIHL was punishing Montour. My insinuation is that they are lazy and didn’t do the work to figure out a way to not schedule games on the same nights.
 

And as far as Avonworth not having games on the same nights, I was surprised to see that. I figured that they would be in the same predicament as Montour. But somehow, they don’t. Like I said, ten years in a row at Montour, always had both JV and varsity games in same nights. Always, not one year in 10 was there a time that Montour didn’t have games at the same time. 

 

 If Montour didn’t have games on the same night, they should be playing without the billet. However, since the history of ten years straight having games on the same nights, I can see why they were scrambling for another goalie. Not sure of the timing of schedule and this kid moving into the district. That is something I can’t answer. 
 

By the way the varsity backup has played ten games as a starter, he has a 7-3 record, Montour probably would have been pretty good without the billet. Maybe not as good, but still good. 
 

 

There were 6 games between JV and V that were on the same day and only 3 were actual conflicts as they were either played at the same time or different rink. Also 1 team plays 16 games and the other plays 20 so for you to have 10 consecutive years of JV and V playing on the same day the PIHL scheduler must hate you. Like people have pointed out Avonworth was able to handle it whether they had games on the same day or 5 in a week between JV and V their goalie made it happen. Avonworth also had an "emergency" backup just in case. They didn't go out and move a kid into the district which isn't that against PIHL rules and the kid would have to sit out a year anyways.

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3 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

There were 6 games between JV and V that were on the same day and only 3 were actual conflicts as they were either played at the same time or different rink. Also 1 team plays 16 games and the other plays 20 so for you to have 10 consecutive years of JV and V playing on the same day the PIHL scheduler must hate you. Like people have pointed out Avonworth was able to handle it whether they had games on the same day or 5 in a week between JV and V their goalie made it happen. Avonworth also had an "emergency" backup just in case. They didn't go out and move a kid into the district which isn't that against PIHL rules and the kid would have to sit out a year anyways.

I guarantee 9 consecutive years of games being played on the same day.

Avonworth has NO JV and Varsity games scheduled at the same time or even same day. I’m not knocking them. That is the way it should be. 
 

You said “only” six conflicts for Montour and only three were “actual” because the you interpret what is proper for a a teenage goodie to play. I’ll go with six, because having a 14 year old play two games in net back to back is a whole lot to ask of anyone. You go with three because you obviously don’t care about the well being of a 14 year old. 6 out of 16 games is a lot to cover for a team without a goalie. More than a third of their games without a goalie. Also, six games without a goalie and hardly any forwards because the team is depleted from call ups. 

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49 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

I guarantee 9 consecutive years of games being played on the same day.

Avonworth has NO JV and Varsity games scheduled at the same time or even same day. I’m not knocking them. That is the way it should be. 
 

You said “only” six conflicts for Montour and only three were “actual” because the you interpret what is proper for a a teenage goodie to play. I’ll go with six, because having a 14 year old play two games in net back to back is a whole lot to ask of anyone. You go with three because you obviously don’t care about the well being of a 14 year old. 6 out of 16 games is a lot to cover for a team without a goalie. More than a third of their games without a goalie. Also, six games without a goalie and hardly any forwards because the team is depleted from call ups. 

I have seen plenty of 14yr old goalies playing multiple games a day and every once in awhile 3. There are plenty of club teams that only have 1 goalie.

They had an emergency goalie also, your argument is invalid no matter how much you repeat yourself and stick your chest out. They had enough goalies and still chose to bring someone in.

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“I’m going to move my kid to Pittsburgh to play high school hockey to help further his hockey career” - Said no parent ever

I very much doubt that he was “brought in”Kids come to Pittsburgh to play for PPE and Esmark not high school. Billets are the luck of the draw. The player could have ended up at any of the other schools that have kids playing for Esmark. To their credit, unlike the other program, they encourage their players to play for their high school teams. 

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10 minutes ago, Stinger17 said:

“I’m going to move my kid to Pittsburgh to play high school hockey to help further his hockey career” - Said no parent ever

I very much doubt that he was “brought in”Kids come to Pittsburgh to play for PPE and Esmark not high school. Billets are the luck of the draw. The player could have ended up at any of the other schools that have kids playing for Esmark. To their credit, unlike the other program, they encourage their players to play for their high school teams. 

even if you come in to pgh to play for esmark thats pretty sad 

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funny this is being talked about. there was an esmark kid that came last year and attended gateway as a senior. mind you gateway does not have a varsity team. Pihl would not let him come play jv hockey at gateway because of the transfer rule..so take that for what its worth. 

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Someone from PIHL must read this board, montour is getting dragged into a hearing tonight. 
 

If the goalie was illegal or his paperwork not done correctly - PIHL is just now picked up on it - it’s a bad look for pihl finding it this late in the season, through this message board of all places. 
 

@Happy Hockey Fan you seem to be involved with montour, is this accurate - really a hearing tonight ? 

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1 hour ago, PUCKCOVID19 said:

you come to PGH for PPE NOT Esmark 

Maybe that is changing!  Maybe Esmark will be the new go to place for kids wanting to get better coaching in Pittsburgh!  Maybe there are people out there who think Pittsburgh has more to offer than just PPE!  Maybe just maybe hockey in PGH isn't as bad as some people make it out to be!  But then again "maybe" I am just wishful thinking!

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

Someone from PIHL must read this board, montour is getting dragged into a hearing tonight. 
 

If the goalie was illegal or his paperwork not done correctly - PIHL is just now picked up on it - it’s a bad look for pihl finding it this late in the season, through this message board of all places. 
 

@Happy Hockey Fan you seem to be involved with montour, is this accurate - really a hearing tonight ? 

This is a very interesting rumour.  Would this disqualify them from PIHL playoffs?

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15 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

This is a very interesting rumour.  Would this disqualify them from PIHL playoffs?

My assumption would be yes, if true. who knows with pihl. I’m happily years removed from dealing with them. Friend at ice castle did confirm there is a pihl meeting at ice castle. doesn’t know who, what, why etc. 

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On 2/19/2023 at 1:58 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

And if you would have looked further, you would see that their JV and Varsity teams NEVER play on the same night. It is possible when they don’t schedule games at the same time or same day. Not so much when they do.

So in light of this, maybe PIHL should send out a questionnaire to all teams so they can request days and times they want to play?  How about creating a grid like a Super Bowl pool and teams can fill in the squares that best fits their needs for days and times.  That is absurd.  If they do not have enough players to field two teams, then field only one.  It was noted on this thread other schools made-do with one goalie, and some schools only fielded one team.

As of today, there appears to be two goalies rostered for Montour Varsity and both are freshmen.  That is unless, according to the current roster they added a third goalie named "Team Bench, #0."

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On 2/14/2023 at 5:20 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

The goalie is billeting with a Montour family. Montour only had one goalie for 2 teams before this kid came in. And PIHL continues to schedule JV and Varsity games on the same night and sometimes even at the same time(last night). Without this goalie, they don’t have one for many JV games this year. Montour has 10 kids skating on JV team. Makes no sense but this a topic for another thread. He is the better of the 2 goalies and has improved the team, but like I said, without him, JV has no goalie for a large number of games. So either Montour “finds” another goalie or their whole JV team suffers because PIHL somehow can’t figure out how to stop scheduling varsity and JV games at the same time. And the JV suffers anyway because the often play with depleted rosters. 

Define illegal goalie.  Kid physically lives in the school district and physically attends the high school.  He tried out for Esmark in April and made the team.  His billet family placement didn’t happen until late July when the family volunteered to open house their home for him to play hockey out of state.   Seen other saying Esmark places him at Montour schools.  That’s prob about the funniest thing I’ve read on this so far.  A AAA  organization placing a kid in a school district to play PIHL hockey….that’s a good one.   Obviously don’t know what the heck they’re talking about on that one.  Montour school district is where his billet family lives.   Not sure what else would be needed.  He must have been pretty damn good.   Sounds like adults doing what they do best.  If you asked the kids they’d probably all say he’s fine he lives here let him play.  But……..

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