2023-2024 Esmark (PIA & Printscape)

[hockeyisgreat]

1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

That relationship was severed years and years ago. I don’t see it being repaired but strange things happen & money talks. 
 

I was told esmark placed their U15 goalie from Dayton, OH (tri state) into montour school district this year. Was told Montour did not have a capable goalie going into the season. Someone fact check it, see if it’s true. I haven’t followed much pihl this year. Just a few local teams in aaa. 

edit - checked EP, looks true. Don’t know the circumstances but the kid is playing for montour. 
 

So how does that 15 year old get from Montour to PIA for games and practice?  Must be an especially accommodating billet!

[aaaahockey]

17 minutes ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So how does that 15 year old get from Montour to PIA for games and practice?  Must be an especially accommodating billet!

Some of the billet families also have kids on the team. Not sure about this one but I know some esmark kids also billet in Peters with other kids on the team. 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

1 hour ago, hockeyisgreat said:

So how does that 15 year old get from Montour to PIA for games and practice?  Must be an especially accommodating billet!

Should have mentioned that he lives with a teammate at Esmark. So it is very convenient.

[Danner27]

13 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Should have mentioned that he lives with a teammate at Esmark. So it is very convenient.

That makes sense. Esmark gets their kid here, montour gets a goalie. Kid plays on both teams with his billet brother - easy to get to practice, easier adjustment for the Dayton kid moving away at 15. Looks like he’s 9-1 in the 10 games he played. Definitely helping that varsity team. 
 

did pihl ever put that visa rule in ? Covid hit, I never followed it again. It was specifically target towards bishop mcort. That coach would cry up a storm every meeting back in the day that they can’t compete with out the euro esmark kids. They would smash everyone in A. Pihl was suppose to make it so you had to play up if you had a kid here under a visa or something.

 

edit - It appears mcort is in AA this year, looks like they have two visa’s ? Guess pihl finally went through with that rule. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Danner27

[ZamboniRocks]

On 2/14/2023 at 11:56 AM, dazedandconfused said:

So the Esmark imports typically reside in the Johnstown area because McCort is the only school who will take them, correct? Johnstown to PIA is bad enough, Johsntown to Printscape........... 

Almost two hours. So just like playing in Cleveland for those folks who make that lovely commute.

 

I was told McCort the only school who will let them take English as a second language so that’s why they go there

[Ihearthockey]

Second sheet officially announced at Printscape

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ihearthockey

[aaaahockey]

18 minutes ago, Ihearthockey said:

Second sheet officially announced at Printscape

Does the bottom left text also mean they are going to try to field a faux AAA team at all levels also? 

[forbin]

19 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

Does the bottom left text also mean they are going to try to field a faux AAA team at all levels also? 

Certainly how I read it as well…. ?

[RJUSHL]

An extra sheet of ice in the south hills is great news. It's really needed. There will be no issues filling all available ice.

The Tier 1 thing is interesting. I wonder if they mean Rebellion Tier 1 or if it's more of a reference to Esmark now using Printscape for their program? It's all Black Bear so there seems to be some overlap. Probably more and more overlap each year.

Edited February 16, 2023 by RJUSHL

[forbin]

Just totally guessing here but I’m gonna say that Rebellion will try to field PAHL teams, AHF teams, AGHF teams, and THF teams. Which makes the Esmark splitting ice there even more confusing considering they are in the THF

[bb2j3z]

First of all, I designed this flyer for the announcement.   Before everyone goes crazy on the Tier 1/AAA comment, we are looking to expand and accommodate more teams at all levels.  Most likely we are not adding tier 1 this season, but if a team came to us looking for a home at that level.   We would take it so that's why those words are in there.  As of right now based on discussions with Black Bear, we are still their top customer at the rink and will be given top priority to buy ice and then to their internal programs.    Then to third parties like tournament companies and Esmark.

[RJUSHL]

7 minutes ago, bb2j3z said:

First of all, I designed this flyer for the announcement.   Before everyone goes crazy on the Tier 1/AAA comment, we are looking to expand and accommodate more teams at all levels.  Most likely we are not adding tier 1 this season, but if a team came to us looking for a home at that level.   We would take it so that's why those words are in there.  As of right now based on discussions with Black Bear, we are still their top customer at the rink and will be given top priority to buy ice and then to their internal programs.    Then to third parties like tournament companies and Esmark.

Thanks for the transparency. It makes sense, especially with how some AAA teams have swapped organizations in recent years. The entire '08 AAA Lebo team moved to SHAHA last year for example. Printscape could be a decent landing spot for some teams.

But just so we're clear, the Tier 1 part of the advertisement wasn't in reference to Esmark now using ice at Printscape?

Edited February 16, 2023 by RJUSHL

[bb2j3z]

Just now, RJUSHL said:

Thanks for the transparency. It makes sense, especially with how some AAA teams have flopped organizations in recent years. The entire '08 AAA Lebo team moved to SHAHA last year for example. Printscape could be a decent landing spot for some teams.

But just so we're clear, the Tier 1 part of the advertisement wasn't in reference to Esmark now using ice at Printscape?

Yes that is correct.   Esmark is not Tier 1 at Printscape Arena.   We were told by BB that they were doing 2 practices a week this season at the rink.  Esmark games would only be allowed if it was extra ice we did not purchase.   

[Rebel Panther]

2 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

Thanks for the transparency. It makes sense, especially with how some AAA teams have flopped organizations in recent years. The entire '08 AAA Lebo team moved to SHAHA last year for example. Printscape could be a decent landing spot for some teams.

But just so we're clear, the Tier 1 part of the advertisement wasn't in reference to Esmark now using ice at Printscape?

That's what he said.  AAA Rebllion teams.  There is limited ice in the South Hills.  AAA teams are always searching for more ice.  And yes, it would be akin to the '08 AAA Lebo team.

[forbin]

7 minutes ago, bb2j3z said:

Yes that is correct.   Esmark is not Tier 1 at Printscape Arena.   We were told by BB that they were doing 2 practices a week this season at the rink.  Esmark games would only be allowed if it was extra ice we did not purchase.   

Wait. 2 practices per team (like 16 slots) or 2 slots TOTAL a week at Printscape for Esmark?

[Rebel Panther]

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Does the bottom left text also mean they are going to try to field a faux AAA team at all levels also? 

The '06 SHAHA AAA team beat Little Caesars last weekend and have gone 2-1 against the Pens Elite team.  Both they and the '08 AAA SHAHA team are legit.

[RJUSHL]

1 minute ago, Rebel Panther said:

The '06 SHAHA AAA team beat Little Caesars last weekend and have gone 2-1 against the Pens Elite team.  Both they and the '08 AAA SHAHA team are legit.

No doubt about that. I really hope this discussion doesn't turn into that again. Those two teams are good.

Are SHAHA AAA teams looking for a new home with two sheets of ice and more practice time? It's still crazy to me how many teams they run out of the YMCA with one single sheet.

[Ihearthockey]

6 minutes ago, RJUSHL said:

No doubt about that. I really hope this discussion doesn't turn into that again. Those two teams are good.

Are SHAHA AAA teams looking for a new home with two sheets of ice and more practice time? It's still crazy to me how many teams they run out of the YMCA with one single sheet.

With 1 sheet at YMCA, how can they not be looking for more time.  

Edited February 16, 2023 by Ihearthockey

[forbin]

Not sure what teams but SHAHA rents ice at rostraver currently.

[bb2j3z]

43 minutes ago, forbin said:

Wait. 2 practices per team (like 16 slots) or 2 slots TOTAL a week at Printscape for Esmark?

It's for the entire Esmark club...  they have 2 slots per week at Printscape.   It's like us buying extra ice at Hunt Armory and Wes Banco arena.   

[aaaahockey]

8 hours ago, bb2j3z said:

It's for the entire Esmark club...  they have 2 slots per week at Printscape.   It's like us buying extra ice at Hunt Armory and Wes Banco arena.   

Oh that's a big ouch for people thinking the commute would be better.  Hopefully they are honest about that for people who ask.  

[zam]

I'm not familiar with the facts of the Montour goalie case. But if what was posted is accurate, how was he eligible to play?  The PIHL rules say players that move with Athletic intent are ineligible for a year. And even specifically lists Billet players as an example.

Heck additionally to that how is it the school districts responsibility to pay for a billet players education? The situation as described is basically an extended sleep over at their teammates house. Seems like you would have kids moving school districts all the time by just moving in with a friend.

Like I said I don't pretend to know any of the facts in the case. But if "they didn't have a capable goalie"  so they brought one in, certainly doesn't seem to be in the spirit of high school sports. But maybe that's how things work these days.

[Happy Hockey Fan]

1 hour ago, zam said:

I'm not familiar with the facts of the Montour goalie case. But if what was posted is accurate, how was he eligible to play?  The PIHL rules say players that move with Athletic intent are ineligible for a year. And even specifically lists Billet players as an example.

Heck additionally to that how is it the school districts responsibility to pay for a billet players education? The situation as described is basically an extended sleep over at their teammates house. Seems like you would have kids moving school districts all the time by just moving in with a friend.

Like I said I don't pretend to know any of the facts in the case. But if "they didn't have a capable goalie"  so they brought one in, certainly doesn't seem to be in the spirit of high school sports. But maybe that's how things work these days.

I understand your point. However, if they didn’t bring in another goalie, they would have only had one goalie for two teams. And PIHL schedules both teams on the same nights, sometimes at the same times. So how was Montour supposed to play two games with one goalie. If PIHL didn’t schedule games like this, maybe they could have done it with one goalie. But even then, that places a lot of stress on a ninth grade goalie, playing all the games and attending all the of practices is a whole lot. 
 

PIHL has been doing this for years. I can attest to this because my kids played there for 8 years in a row and it happened consistently every year. So when the varsity had a game and had their cal ups, the JV was left with a skeleton roster and often skated with very few players. Makes for not only a tough game to play for them, it also puts them at risk for more injuries. There is no way that a school that doesn’t have enough kids to fill two full rosters should be playing JV and Varsity games on the same night. Montour had asked PIHL to change this, and they were supposed to do it this year because they only had one goalie. Yet it happened again. If they didn’t add another goalie, they would have had to play a number of games without one. 
 

If PIHl can’t figure this out, they will continue to hurt players because they end up on teams with not enough players. There is obviously enough ice time available for this not to be a problem. Thursday nights at RMU are unused by varsity this year, why not schedule some games then so they can have the two teams play on different nights? 

[zam]

Mars fielded two teams with one goalie atleast once in the last two years, maybe both.  I'd imagine they would have loved to bolster their team with a AAA goalie.  The other option would be only field a varsity or only a JV squad.  

I don't know all the details but it seems like a weak justification, "we didn't have a capable goalie". I think there are plenty of bottom dwellers that would make the argument "we don't have a capable first line center, or capable shut down Defenseman"

Maybe this happens all the time I don't know. Or maybe they make exceptions for certain cases, but just makes you wonder where they draw the line. 

 

[Happy Hockey Fan]

3 minutes ago, zam said:

Mars fielded two teams with one goalie atleast once in the last two years, maybe both.  I'd imagine they would have loved to bolster their team with a AAA goalie.  The other option would be only field a varsity or only a JV squad.  

I don't know all the details but it seems like a weak justification, "we didn't have a capable goalie". I think there are plenty of bottom dwellers that would make the argument "we don't have a capable first line center, or capable shut down Defenseman"

Maybe this happens all the time I don't know. Or maybe they make exceptions for certain cases, but just makes you wonder where they draw the line. 

 

Once again, I see your point. But let me make a couple more points for letting him play. First, Montour knows it is only going to have one goalie and asks PIHL to schedule games on different nights, which Montour did. PIHL ignores them and schedules games on same nights and even at same time. How does Montour field both teams? This is not fair to the kids that want to play. Your solution of only have one team would work. But once again, that leaves a number of kids that wanted to play unable to play. Is that fair? The second point is, have you ever coached or played on a team with only one goalie? It is a serious problem when the only goalie goes down. You end up playing someone that has never played goalie in net, which is not just an inconvenience, it puts a kid in a spot where injury is highly possible because they don’t know what they are doing. Someone not used to playing the position is now going to be facing 90 MPH slap shots. Not the safest scenario. 
 

I do not necessarily disagree with you that this seems unfair. But since PIHL still scheduled games on the same nights and even at the same time, I’ll give them a pass. If PIHL doesn’t schedule games on that same nights, then maybe I’d lean more towards it being unfair.