Montour Hockey

[PirateMan]

Just now, PirateMan said:

How

 

40 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

It was so confusing that you broke it down word for word. ? Nice try on the put down bud. ?

 

 

How about you and the other Montour parents stop blaming everyone except for who is to blame. It is actually that simple. It's not PIHL fault, it's not QV fault, it's not Avonworth fault and it's not some parent who's kid plays goalie with that goalie for a club teams fault. Place the blame where it lies and stop defending them. Yes it sucks for the kids (seniors) but it wasn't the first or second time that Montour got caught cheating this season, it was the THIRD time. This one just happen to bite them in the ass.

Do you know what cheating means? How does accidentally rostering an extra kid who didn’t even play in the game, and having an extra “coach” on the bench give montour a competitive advantage? You think you know what you’re talking about but you don’t. You can put “third” in bold all you want but get your facts right first.

[Pucks11]

Just now, PirateMan said:

Do you know what cheating means? How does accidentally rostering an extra kid who didn’t even play in the game, and having an extra “coach” on the bench give montour a competitive advantage? You think you know what you’re talking about but you don’t. You can put “third” in bold all you want but get your facts right first.

All 3 are facts, the coach knew what he was doing and knew it was illegal and still chose to do ALL 3. If it were 1 of the 3 then maybe it was an accidental but it wasn't.

[PirateMan]

Just now, Pucks11 said:

All 3 are facts, the coach knew what he was doing and knew it was illegal and still chose to do ALL 3. If it were 1 of the 3 then maybe it was an accidental but it wasn't.

What do you mean he knew what he was doing? A jv player was accidentally rostered. He didn’t even dress for the game because it was an accident. 

[Ihearthockey]

22 minutes ago, forbin said:

Purely curious and I apologize if it’s already been discussed here, but what were the other two incidents of cheating this season? 

Suspension List

[Stackthepads]

4 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

No worries, it was but there have been a ton of messages over the last few days. The first time the coach was supposed this season was because of an unrostered coach on the bench, then the 2nd time the coach was suspended was because he got caught with to many kids dressed for a game.

I heard the unrostered coach was Scotty Bowman.  Any truth to that?  

[Jkersman01]

Next time you get pulled over for speeding, try getting out of it by telling the cop you’ve been speeding for 6 months and they didn’t discipline you, so doing it now is unfair. See how that works out. After it doesn’t, try it before the magistrate too.

I have empathy for the players and especially the goalie. Really sucks. 

I’ve been a team manager for 4 years now. I know how important it is to get the the roster info right at the beginning of the year (clearances, etc as well) plus making sure it is accurate for EVERY game. I know every detail about each kid on my kids’ teams. that’s my job. I agree with what someone said- blame here belongs likely with manager and coaches. At beginning of season, they knew this was a dicey situation. You dot your I’s and cross your T’s. On the PIHL roster form you be CERTAIN you note they’re a transfer student. If they did all that and PIHL just didn’t follow through with certifying him after everything was done properly, then I can feel a little more for Montour folks, and I would think the PIHL board would have taken that into consideration before they ruled on this. Frankly they should have. However, I’ve not seen anything alleging that the roster was filled out properly and it was PIHL that didn’t do their job beginning of the year. 

[Spear and Magic Helmet]

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

So it boils down to timing rather than rules being broken.  Alternative facts.  

Uh, OK.

And if they did forfeit five games as you say back in November or December, with 22 points they still do not make the playoffs.

I think you do have a good point that Montour would have probably missed the playoffs anyhow, but I think it would sting less had the PIHL ruled the goalie ineligible earlier. It probably hurts a little more being right there for the playoffs and having it taken away, even thought it was the right decision to rule the goalie and rule the games a forfeit/boot Montour from the playoffs.

I do think that Montour didn't do enough to make sure the kid was eligible and the kid shouldn't have played until they were sure it was ok (or found out it was not). However, I also think the PIHL should have been a little more on top of the situation. People would have been mad in November too, but I think things overall would have been a little smoother.
 

[Jkersman01]

10 minutes ago, Spear and Magic Helmet said:

I think you do have a good point that Montour would have probably missed the playoffs anyhow, but I think it would sting less had the PIHL ruled the goalie ineligible earlier. It probably hurts a little more being right there for the playoffs and having it taken away, even thought it was the right decision to rule the goalie and rule the games a forfeit/boot Montour from the playoffs.

I do think that Montour didn't do enough to make sure the kid was eligible and the kid shouldn't have played until they were sure it was ok (or found out it was not). However, I also think the PIHL should have been a little more on top of the situation. People would have been mad in November too, but I think things overall would have been a little smoother.
 

I think we pretty much said the same thing at the same time… ?

[Flavio]

1 hour ago, Pucks11 said:

 

Probably not considering they were 6th in goals against. If you take that goalie away their goals per game go up by almost a gola and a half and drop them to 10th in the division.

It's sad that grown adults that Knew What they were doing was not right and still didn't anyways.

When you speed by the same cop every day for 6 months, he watches you, and basically waves. Then he pulls you over on 6 months and one day, you have an argument as to why he failed to do his job the 6 months prior. As such is PIHL in this case. If you had a dash cam showing the cop letting you go, the judge would let you off in a heartbeat. 
 

Doesn’t make you right, but why was everything allowed to pass until a convenient time? 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flavio

[Hattrick Swayze]

If you know the Montour coach at all none of this comes as a surprise.

[Jkersman01]

1 minute ago, Flavio said:

When you speed by the same cop every day for 6 months, he watches you, and basically waves. Then he pulls you over on 6 months and one day, you have an argument as to why he failed to do his job the 6 months prior. As such is PIHL in this case. 
 

I bet it was your wife that shit the clam gas wasn’t it. 

In that case everyone is at fault. That’s my point. If PIHL knew, or should have known, this was an issue, shame on them too. 

[Flavio]

Okay so PIHLS error should be acknowledged. They let it go. Avonworth and others should direct their disdain there. Also, all signs point to this being used as a come uppence given the timing…. For other programs. 
 

Don’t punish the kids. 
 

This is all so batshit crazy and stupid. People claiming the goalie was placed in Montour for their high school hockey team lol He’s playing AAA hockey, high school hockey is basically extra ice time. It’s not some conspiracy. I would not put it past people in Montour or anywhere else to think that anyone even cared that much to make this much of a fuss about it. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flavio

[Pucks11]

7 minutes ago, Flavio said:

When you speed by the same cop every day for 6 months, he watches you, and basically waves. Then he pulls you over on 6 months and one day, you have an argument as to why he failed to do his job the 6 months prior. As such is PIHL in this case. If you had a dash cam showing the cop letting you go, the judge would let you off in a heartbeat. 
 

Doesn’t make you right, but why was everything allowed to pass until a convenient time? 

I get what you are saying to a point.

It is my understanding that PIHL does their initial review at the beginning of the season and then they do another at the end before playoffs to make sure everyone is up to par. Maybe upon this review they noticed that something was wrong with the goalies paperwork. Who really knows unless someone comes out and admits to being the person that blew the kids spot up or if PIHL really just happened to catch it. Either way the blame goes on the coach and the coach only.

[Flavio]

If Avonworth goes to the league in December. Then that isn’t an issue. Right now, whether it was them, or some other team, they look like a bunch of conspiring pussies who are in the same vein of manipulation as the program they are disputing now. Additionally, you waited knowing it had potentially to screw over innocent kids. 
 

The right thing to do was address it immediately so no one else was effected. It was sat on, and used as a strategic measures. Now there are a roster of kids from Montour being used as pawns. Avonworth will get their karma, and so it goes. But still, what a bunch of pussies. 
 

The rats are out in abundance. 
 

- Coach Flavi 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flavio

[Jkersman01]

7 minutes ago, Flavio said:

Okay so PIHLS error should be acknowledged. They let it go. Avonworth and others should direct their disdain there. Also, all signs point to this being used as a come uppence given the timing…. For other programs. 
 

Don’t punish the kids. 
 

This is all so batshit crazy and stupid. People claiming the goalie was placed in Montour for their high school hockey team lol He’s playing AAA hockey, high school hockey is basically extra ice time. It’s not some conspiracy. I would not put it past people in Montour or anywhere else to think that anyone even cared that much to make this much of a fuss about it. 

Coach Flavi, my man, you’re missing a step.

As Pucks just said a few min ago, When you fill out a roster and submit to PIHL at the beginning of the season, you need to note the eligibility of the player. If montour actually indicated to PIHL this was a transfer player (as defined by PIHL rules), and PIHL approved the roster early on- PIHL had culpability here and I would think any half decent rep at the hearing 2 nights ago would have successfully argued that as a mitigating circumstance.
 

But if montour didn’t disclose that (so for all PIHL knew this new name was a freshman that lived in montour for 10 years… and just now was playing varsity), the TEAM (manager, coaches, or whoever all collaborated on this) should bear this responsibility. That might be why PIHL didn’t know until someone (now, albeit late in the game) brought it to their attention.

[hockey57410]

2 hours ago, Icebucket said:

What I don't quite understand is why the Montour parents are directing their anger at the PIHL instead of at the Montour coach/board.  If the coach/board are claiming they didn't know they were breaking the rules, then shame on them for not reading up.  It's not like the PIHL rulebook is 500 pages, its a 66 page doc (and of the 66 pages about 15 are blank or index pages).

Sadly agree. 
 

of course everyone feels bad for the seniors. The coach and board knew better. No excuses. I’m sure they’re trying to deflect blaming PIHL or the “we didn’t know” card. The new board and new coach take over after they run clay out. the JV parents who clay talked about really did    Mess this up.  Someone pointed out they were top offense too. I didn’t realize that. Makes it even worse. Those seniors deserved better. Board/coaches again got in the way of youth sports.  Joking aside. Lose , lose situation. 

[Flavio]

Other teams knew early on. It should have been brought up then. That would have been the decent thing to do so seniors and other kids aren’t losing out. Instead, the rats waited until it could benefit them, then they came out. What a bunch of spineless, low rent adults. Sounds like something that would happen in some white trash part of Oklahoma with high school football. 
 

I don’t care about the Montour coach or board. They could be the cartel for all I care. I care that adults used this as a chess piece knowing all along it would screw over kids.

Maybe Montour coaches did it intentionally, maybe they didn’t. The people who complained this late in the game knew what they were doing - and everyone should recognize them for that as well. Pathetic! 
 

- Coach F

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flavio

[Danner27]

It’s my understanding montour never listed the kid as a transfer for the opening roster. Their defense during the appeal was - the kid is not in HS yet, he was in 8th grade, he’s not a transfer student, he doesn’t have to sit out a year.  montour tried to use the PIAA rules to go under the radar (it appears) not realizing hockey is a club sport - PIHL functions outside the realm of the PIAA. 

[Flavio]

Wives running around queefing at people too. It all makes sense. White trash. 
 

Im not saying Montour isn’t wrong. Maybe they had 6 meetings on how to subvert the rules. Whatever……. WHATEVER. 
 

The point is others sat back and watched. Then used this as a strategy to benefit them by way of proper timing to make a fuss. They should be cast in the same light as Montour if Montour was indeed shady about it. 
 

If it was addressed immediately, then that’s fair game. Months ago. Goalie doesn’t play and no other Montour kids suffer. However, grown adults used this as an ace up their proverbial sleeve knowing that a roster of teenagers would be collateral. It’s pathetic. If it was Avonworth, I hope your boys learn a lesson and get your asses kicked the first game. 
 

PATHETIC. It’s a high school sport, stop all the queefing and go beat the other team. Not in western PA, it’s always a conspiracy, or the refs, or the zam driver. 
 

- DR FLAVIO 

 

 

GOOD GRIEF 

Edited February 24, 2023 by Flavio

[Pucks11]

8 minutes ago, Flavio said:

Wives running around queefing at people too. It all makes sense. White trash. 
 

Im not saying Montour isn’t wrong. Maybe they had 6 meetings on how to subvert the rules. Whatever……. WHATEVER. 
 

The point is others sat back and watched. Then used this as a strategy to benefit them by way of proper timing to make a fuss. They should be cast in the same light as Montour if Montour was indeed shady about it. 
 

If it was addressed immediately, then that’s fair game. Months ago. Goalie doesn’t play and no other Montour kids suffer. However, grown adults used this as an ace up their proverbial sleeve knowing that a roster of teenagers would be collateral. It’s pathetic. If it was Avonworth, I hope your boys learn a lesson and get your asses kicked the first game. 
 

PATHETIC. It’s a high school sport, stop all the queefing and go beat the other team. Not in western PA, it’s always a conspiracy, or the refs, or the zam driver. 
 

- DR FLAVIO 

 

 

GOOD GRIEF 

You are a very salty person to have no dog in this fight.

Stop blaming everyone except for who needs to be blamed.

Who cares if someone waited until the day before playoffs to start to bring it up. The fact is Montour cheated and got caught. Blame the coach and the parents in the organization that knew they did something wrong and just hoped they wouldn't get caught. If the parents from Montour knew what was going on with this kid then you know damn well the players knew what was going on also. Yes you want to feel bad for the kids but if any of them knew then they are just as guilty as the parents and coach for not stopping it from happening.

 

You are the only one coming up with the conspiracy theories and then wishing I'll will towards another group of INNOCENT kids.

Edited February 24, 2023 by Pucks11

[Jkersman01]

@Flavio, I see that for sure.
 

@Danner27Sounds like montour ADULTS wanted to get them on a technicality but they weren’t technically strong enough themselves to do it. Shame on them. Rather than sort it out like adults, respectfully, up front, with transparency, like fair play decency dictates, they played the game and lost.

 

I don’t know this Clay gentleman but seems like the soldiers may have gotten their wish and run the decent general out of town. 

[Flavio]

No… FLAVI is just hitting you with the truth and it hurts.

Now I have a dog in the fight lol Like I was accused of living in the east because Esmark making kids drive to Southpointe is stupid. 

I’m taking part in a discussion you turd burglar. 

[aaaahockey]

24 minutes ago, Flavio said:

If Avonworth goes to the league in December. Then that isn’t an issue. Right now, whether it was them, or some other team, they look like a bunch of conspiring pussies who are in the same vein of manipulation as the program they are disputing now. Additionally, you waited knowing it had potentially to screw over innocent kids. 
 

The right thing to do was address it immediately so no one else was effected. It was sat on, and used as a strategic measures. Now there are a roster of kids from Montour being used as pawns. Avonworth will get their karma, and so it goes. But still, what a bunch of pussies. 
 

The rats are out in abundance. 
 

- Coach Flavi 

The original high school kid showed up. I wondered about his lack of geographic knowledge of the area!

[Stackthepads]

15 minutes ago, Pucks11 said:

You are a very salty person to have no dog in this fight.

Stop blaming everyone except for who needs to be blamed.

Who cares if someone waited until the day before playoffs to start to bring it up. The fact is Montour cheated and got caught. Blame the coach and the parents in the organization that knew they did something wrong and just hoped they wouldn't get caught. If the parents from Montour knew what was going on with this kid then you know damn well the players knew what was going on also. Yes you want to feel bad for the kids but if any of them knew then they are just as guilty as the parents and coach for not stopping it from happening.

 

You are the only one coming up with the conspiracy theories and then wishing I'll will towards another group of INNOCENT kids.

So now it is the kids responsibility to know all the eligibility and rule intricacies of sports leagues???  Obviously you were hit in the head by 11 pucks- thus the screen name.

[nemesis8679]

On one hand, I doubt this elite 9th grade goalie is Patrick Roy. So just make the kid ineligible for playoffs, and play on, right? "Don't screw the other kids over what the coach/manager/board did." Right? 

But it doesn't work that way. Rules are the rules, the league goes over them, they are written down clearly, you can access them. You can ask questions if you're confused. So there's no excuse, really. 

Conveniently, permission was alleged to have been given by the now-deceased leader of PIHL. Where is it in writing? No matter how old or backward or low-tech you might think this man was, I'm sure they didn't ask him at the rink if this was okay, and he nodded his head "oh, yes", and that was that. Surely there would've been a letter or email in writing. And if it really did go that way, then again shame on the coach/manager/board for not seeing that it was given in writing. 

And why is it the responsibility of other teams to point this error out on some kind of a time line? It's not. If whoever knew about it and waited until the time was right FOR THEM, frankly that's good managing and/or good coaching that would do that. Why on earth would another team point this error out early so it could be reconciled by PIHL/Montour before it became a serious issue? Why would you expect a rival team to help a cheater? 

Stop misplacing blame on to other teams, and direct your anger at the parties responsible for the situation you're in. That's the Montour coaches, manager, and board. Whining about the other teams that knew about it and let it go until now just makes everyone look like crybabies. Cheating crybabies, actually.