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Making PPE after being cut


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I know that there are many quality teams in this area but my son insists on trying to make it to the Pens Elite. The question I have is how likely is it to be able to make that team after not being a part of any of their teams? My son tried out and did not make it. Is it now near impossible to displace an existing kid the following year? I fully understand that the kids there are high level players, I am just trying to level set on whether it is worth trying in the future.

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What's his hockey history and birth year?  Usually you will have played on some travel hockey teams before having a chance to get on PPE.  At this point, you may not know his skill level and how he rates with the rest of the competition.   It sounds like he has a lot of development to do first.

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He has played for 3 years and is a 2013. He played last year at the A Major Black level and seemed to gain a good understanding of full ice. I agree that it is hard to understand where he stands in comparison with the tryouts being closed. Just seems like they mostly take kids from 66ers for the 9u team and then continue to mostly keep the same kids. Not saying those kids aren't deserving just wondering how likely it is for someone new to unseat them.

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I have been taking my son to the tryouts every year regardless of the outcome. He too, pushes for PPE every year. It is good for kids to have goals and try to achieve them if they make it or not. So, from a development of a player/person standpoint you are teaching your kid to make goals and work toward them even if you never achieve them, it instills the work ethic to strive for something. This of course, is if it is in fact your kid asking to tryout and it is HIS goal to make the team.

From a logical standpoint, I also have no qualms doing it every year because it is roughly 50$ an ice slot against the "best" kids in the area. It gives my kid a measuring stick, is a reasonability priced ice session with and against high skilled players, and if nothing else gives him a leg up for the next tryout he does for whichever team he ends up making it on.

Win/win/win/win. for $170? I'll do that every time.

 

Edit: Spelling

Edited by LGP13
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The reality is that on most teams PPE included 90% of the teams are picked. There are only typically a couple kids that are playing for a 3/4 line positions & that's how it should be. This is why there is A, AA & AA teams.

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In my experience they will replace anyone who isn't related to someone within the organization.  Remember it is hard to make an impression large enough to sway them to cut a current player in just a tryout.  Also remember the drills they use for tryouts are the drills these kids have done every day in practice for the past year.   If you are serious about it and feel your kid really has the skill of the kids that made it, put them in skills and drills at UPMC and have them get to know the coaches. I wouldn't say it is that hard at all to crack the roster from outside except the caveat that the kids who are there practice the tryout stuff constantly.  

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The older you get the harder it is to make PPE teams.  They invite kids to the tryouts. Unless you are invited you have very little chance to make it.  Most AAA teams around here are stocked by kids who once played PPE and were cut for whatever reason.  

Some of those teams are almost as good as PPE.  How many PPE teams made it to Nationals this year? Maybe 1?

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You do, on average (each year is different) see some decent roster turnover at lower birth years. That's mainly because they field 2 teams per birth year. The gold team doesn't turn over much (maybe 1 or 2 a year), but the black team has a tendency to do that. After 1-2 years on the black team, some of the parents are starting to realize the writing is on the wall and their days are numbered. They, either individually or with a group of a few teammates, are starting to look at other orgs to find a home earlier. Many of these black team parents, lately at least, would prefer getting into Vengeance (starting at 10U) or Esmark (starting at 12U) if their kid can make it. Then, they're back to playing on a "top team" and situated (hopefully) in the organization sooner. 

I'm not saying there is a mass exodus each year for the black teams, but it definitely happens, to a different degree each year.

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8 hours ago, PghHockey21 said:

He has played for 3 years and is a 2013. He played last year at the A Major Black level and seemed to gain a good understanding of full ice. I agree that it is hard to understand where he stands in comparison with the tryouts being closed. Just seems like they mostly take kids from 66ers for the 9u team and then continue to mostly keep the same kids. Not saying those kids aren't deserving just wondering how likely it is for someone new to unseat them.

They take the strongest kids that try out each and every year. Yes there could be SOME exceptions and favoritism. They generally keep the best and cut the worst. There will be players that are the best when they are are 9, but by the time they are 12 they are average. And there are other kids that don't become the best until 14.  You want your kid to be the one that keeps getting better and then knocks off a Mite Superstar. All it takes to be a Mite Superstar is being slightly faster than everyone else and having a good Celly. 

Also, and I haven't seen your kid play, and I don't mean to sound harsh. But, the reality is, your child is playing A. So if your organization has a AA team there are probably at least 10 kids in the birth year better than yours there.  Multiply that by 10 other PAHL organizations, and there could be 100 PAHL players alone better than yours. I think if you watch a season of AA PAHL and your kid is one of the top 5 players at that level, then he stands a chance of making AAA pens. If he's not then maybe the next stepping stone is one of the many other "AAA" teams. 

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1 minute ago, zam said:

They take the strongest kids that try out each and every year. Yes there could be SOME exceptions and favoritism. They generally keep the best and cut the worst. There will be players that are the best when they are are 9, but by the time they are 12 they are average. And there are other kids that don't become the best until 14.  You want your kid to be the one that keeps getting better and then knocks off a Mite Superstar. All it takes to be a Mite Superstar is being slightly faster than everyone else and having a good Celly. 

Also, and I haven't seen your kid play, and I don't mean to sound harsh. But, the reality is, your child is playing A. So if your organization has a AA team there are probably at least 10 kids in the birth year better than yours there.  Multiply that by 10 other PAHL organizations, and there could be 100 PAHL players alone better than yours. I think if you watch a season of AA PAHL and your kid is one of the top 5 players at that level, then he stands a chance of making AAA pens. If he's not then maybe the next stepping stone is one of the many other "AAA" teams. 

Most of this is true but one caveat - many if not most of the larger orgs are doing birthyear teams and most of the birthyear teams play single A (usually black) their minor year.  So you could be the best in a birthyear in an organization playing A Major Black if you are the minor year.  Also you always have the outlier teams that say they can't field AA teams and go undefeated in A Major Gold ?

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1 minute ago, aaaahockey said:

Most of this is true but one caveat - many if not most of the larger orgs are doing birthyear teams and most of the birthyear teams play single A (usually black) their minor year.  So you could be the best in a birthyear in an organization playing A Major Black if you are the minor year.  Also you always have the outlier teams that say they can't field AA teams and go undefeated in A Major Gold ?

Oops LOL. I guess I'm still in the hockey ancient times of 2 year birth years at PAHL. I just assumed the best kids still played AA. So I suppose if your player was the strongest on his Minor Birth year team, and was dominant in his division, then he could stand a chance at making a AAA team.

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As a parent of a child on a 10U A Major Black team this season, and personally knowing 80% of the families on the PPE 2013 teams I can say confidently that there were MAYBE 5 kids total in that division that would have even had a sniff at making those teams. My kid was not one of them just to be clear. I think the Preds team was the only 2013 team in A Major Black and they finished second. Their goalie is unbelievable (yes I know they are only 9, but seriously the kid is a brick wall). 
 

I wouldn’t sweat it. Those Pens teams are already picked anyway. The tryouts are just money makers. There’s a 2013 player who played PAHL AA this year, is head and shoulders above the majority of the kids on the pens black teams, and he will likely get cut again this year because his parents don’t play the game. Plain and simple. You HAVE to kiss ass to play up there year after year. It’s exhausting. 

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Does anyone here really believe paying for the PPE PR machine and money game for their 9-10 year old squirt actually thinks "if my 9 year old kid gets into their system he has a great shot to make all of their future teams?"  Even after countless comments from those on this forum countering this?

Or is it about the dad being able to tell all of his friends that his kid plays for PPE while buying all of the hoodies and car stickers that let everyone know where his kid plays.  When checking comes into play everything changes for these kids.

It is pathetic and sad as there are so many solid youth ( yes, youth ) programs out there where you can get plenty of ice time and solid coaching at a fraction of the cost. 

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1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

Does anyone here really believe paying for the PPE PR machine and money game for their 9-10 year old squirt actually thinks "if my 9 year old kid gets into their system he has a great shot to make all of their future teams?"  Even after countless comments from those on this forum countering this?

Or is it about the dad being able to tell all of his friends that his kid plays for PPE while buying all of the hoodies and car stickers that let everyone know where his kid plays.  When checking comes into play everything changes for these kids.

It is pathetic and sad as there are so many solid youth ( yes, youth ) programs out there where you can get plenty of ice time and solid coaching at a fraction of the cost. 

The better kids are going to float to the top one way or another. How they get there varies. There is no way to know whether a kid that plays 66ers and Pens would develop any differently if he did Foxes and TKCLIFFBRADQUESTBERKY lessons twice a week. The best and the worst kids always come and go. The best PAHL kids move on to AAA or AAAish teams. The best AAA kids move on to Juniors. The worst kids quit hockey or just play in house, high school, summer league, etc.

You can skate around tires at UPMC just as well as at Ice Castle.  The thing that MIGHT be different at a true AAA team is the commitment level and discipline.  The kids at AAA teams are working out at the gym at an early age, pushing each other for ice time, not skipping practices, acting professionally and being held accountable (getting cut if you're a jagoff)

There are PAHL coaches that run exceptional practices, but all 18 players don't necessarily have the same level of commitment to the sport and their team.
 

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1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

Does anyone here really believe paying for the PPE PR machine and money game for their 9-10 year old squirt actually thinks "if my 9 year old kid gets into their system he has a great shot to make all of their future teams?"  Even after countless comments from those on this forum countering this?

Or is it about the dad being able to tell all of his friends that his kid plays for PPE while buying all of the hoodies and car stickers that let everyone know where his kid plays.  When checking comes into play everything changes for these kids.

It is pathetic and sad as there are so many solid youth ( yes, youth ) programs out there where you can get plenty of ice time and solid coaching at a fraction of the cost. 

I dont believe that I am actually asking the opposite. My question was is there any chance going forward aside from your kid being a superstar. I don't want to prevent my kid from striving for what everyone considers the top program in the area but I also don't want to fight against a made team year in and year out.

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Thanks all for the insight it is very helpful.

Just for clarification my son was in a AA org but in his minor birth year and thus they placed at single A level. Not saying that is an issue as they were placed in the right spot. My son at times did seem to shine, obviously I am biased, so I thought it worth the shot to let him try. At the worst he now knows what the kids there look like on the ice.

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1 hour ago, PghHockey21 said:

Thanks all for the insight it is very helpful.

Just for clarification my son was in a AA org but in his minor birth year and thus they placed at single A level. Not saying that is an issue as they were placed in the right spot. My son at times did seem to shine, obviously I am biased, so I thought it worth the shot to let him try. At the worst he now knows what the kids there look like on the ice.

Never hurts to try! Just as you go in with eyes wide open.  Please let us know what your son thinks of the experience. Just make sure he knows that sometimes being the best out there isn't good enough for PPE.

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8 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

Never hurts to try! Just as you go in with eyes wide open.  Please let us know what your son thinks of the experience. Just make sure he knows that sometimes being the best out there isn't good enough for PPE.

Thats true for way more teams than PPE. 

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