09 vengeance?

[Hockeyville31]

2 hours ago, twoboys said:

Pittsburgh has enough depth to have 3 AAA teams.  Especially, if the Pens are stacked with out of town kids.  Look at 16U last year with 3 top 40 teams.  I bet 16U will again have 3 good teams this year. 
 

 

Did they shut down that 09 Esmark team?

[Hattrick Swayze]

3 hours ago, Hockeyville31 said:

Did they shut down that 09 Esmark team?

Yes, they did. Unfortunately for a lot of the kids they did it late enough that they couldn't try out Tier 1 anymore. Tier 2 will be very good in Western Pa this year. I also heard they are not refunding  any of their tryout fee's even though they folded the team. Not a great look on their part!

Edited April 24, 2023 by Hattrick Swayze

[Hockey00]

11 minutes ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

Yes, they did. Unfortunately for a lot of the kids they did it late enough that they couldn't try out Tier 1 anymore. Tier 2 will be very good in Western Pa this year. I also heard they are not refunding  any of their tryout fee's even though they folded the team. Not a great look on their part!

also heard Friday that they deposited the commitment fee checks from parents  for the 09s even though team folded. 

[bender05]

Apparently 09 foxes folded 

[fafa fohi]

11 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

Yes, they did. Unfortunately for a lot of the kids they did it late enough that they couldn't try out Tier 1 anymore. Tier 2 will be very good in Western Pa this year. I also heard they are not refunding  any of their tryout fee's even though they folded the team. Not a great look on their part!

Esmark pulled this shit two seasons ago when they folded the 06 BY team right after tryouts.  It is a bush move to cash the tryout checks and not return those fees to the kids that made the team and committed to the team prior to them folding.  Garbage move by Esmark but I am not surprised.

[PUCKCOVID19]

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

Esmark pulled this shit two seasons ago when they folded the 06 BY team right after tryouts.  It is a bush move to cash the tryout checks and not return those fees to the kids that made the team and committed to the team prior to them folding.  Garbage move by Esmark but I am not surprised.

Yuri is on this board, maybe he will chime in to why they keep it, but yes a scum bag move

[sadday4hockey]

Gotta pay the student visa fees for the imports.

[RJUSHL]

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Edited April 24, 2023 by RJUSHL

[Hockey00]

So are all 09 AAA and AA teams done with tryouts? Is it true icemen is having two AA teams?

[JohanHedberg1]

20 minutes ago, Hockey00 said:

So are all 09 AAA and AA teams done with tryouts? Is it true icemen is having two AA teams?

Looks like that’s what they posted, dont know if the 2nd team players actually accepted or went elsewhere. Their top team looks solid with a couple AAA add ons. Same with Allegheny. 

[Hockey00]

21 minutes ago, JohanHedberg1 said:

Looks like that’s what they posted, dont know if the 2nd team players actually accepted or went elsewhere. Their top team looks solid with a couple AAA add ons. Same with Allegheny. 

did north pittsburgh or rebellion get any aaa players? Or does it seem to be Icemen and Allegheny looking the strongest 

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, Hockey00 said:

So are all 09 AAA and AA teams done with tryouts? Is it true icemen is having two AA teams?

Isn't icemen doing one independent AA team and one pahl AA team? 

[aaaahockey]

1 hour ago, Hockey00 said:

did north pittsburgh or rebellion get any aaa players? Or does it seem to be Icemen and Allegheny looking the strongest 

Rebellion got some cuts from SHAHA and Preds I believe. 

[YardSale]

Are they still AAA players if they got cut?

[Hockey00]

29 minutes ago, YardSale said:

Are they still AAA players if they got cut?

well the ones from Esmark weren’t cut, their team folded. I think one from Shaha at rebellion left and didn’t even try out 

[hockey55]

1 minute ago, Hockey00 said:

well the ones from Esmark weren’t cut, their team folded. I think one from Shaha at rebellion left and didn’t even try out 

and there were two at Allegheny that made vengeance but declined their spots so I would say aaa players who chose to go national bound aa instead 

[Hattrick Swayze]

25 minutes ago, hockey55 said:

and there were two at Allegheny that made vengeance but declined their spots so I would say aaa players who chose to go national bound aa instead 

From what I have heard Allegheny added 3 Esmark players and one of their goalies as well as a SHAHA AAA goalie from last year. On top of that they had 2 of their players make Vengeance and decline to stay. Seems like that team will be very good. Mid State added two Pens cuts and already had a strong team and not sure what is going on with Icemen having two teams but their top team is supposedly really strong. 

Anyone know where all the Viper Stars players ended up this season because they were a very good PAHL team last year? Assuming a few went to Renegades or Icemen and maybe a few to Allegheny? Should be an exciting year for the 09 group at Tier 2.

[TeamRamRod]

I think a handful of the Viper Stars players are on the newly formed 09 AA Aviators team.  I also heard of one who made Iceman.  I think it's great that good players are choosing to stay on Tier 2 teams rather than play on some of these 'AAA' teams.  It will make for an exciting and competitive year for Tier 2.

[bender05]

6 hours ago, Hattrick Swayze said:

From what I have heard Allegheny added 3 Esmark players and one of their goalies as well as a SHAHA AAA goalie from last year. On top of that they had 2 of their players make Vengeance and decline to stay. Seems like that team will be very good. Mid State added two Pens cuts and already had a strong team and not sure what is going on with Icemen having two teams but their top team is supposedly really strong. 

Anyone know where all the Viper Stars players ended up this season because they were a very good PAHL team last year? Assuming a few went to Renegades or Icemen and maybe a few to Allegheny? Should be an exciting year for the 09 group at Tier 2.

Their top forward went to Allegheny-pretty sure he was top of pahl aa with points 

[No Politics]

1 hour ago, TeamRamRod said:

I think a handful of the Viper Stars players are on the newly formed 09 AA Aviators team.  I also heard of one who made Iceman.  I think it's great that good players are choosing to stay on Tier 2 teams rather than play on some of these 'AAA' teams.  It will make for an exciting and competitive year for Tier 2.

It would be exciting IF those Tier 2 teams are really Tier 2 teams.  Based off of what I saw, I seriously doubt that.  I personally know some kids who I would honestly assess as A Minor Black or maybe A Major White players who made "AA" teams.

I think in five years there won't be anymore A-level hockey.  Kids will go straight from B to AA so parents can (pay to) gloat about how wonderful their kid is, and teams will be glad to take their money to apply that label.  I used to LOVE it when my A Major kids would go to a summer pick-up game, and other parents would rave about their AAA/AA player and how great their team would be.  Then my "inferior" kids would go out there and make them look stupid.  AND... once the season started, my kids would be out there on regular shifts in all phases of the game, and their kids would sit on the bench.

Sorry if I sound salty.  This tryout season really has my head ready to explode from the sheer insanity.  As someone who loves the game of hockey, I just don't get it.

[Hky05]

6 minutes ago, No Politics said:

It would be exciting IF those Tier 2 teams are really Tier 2 teams.  Based off of what I saw, I seriously doubt that.  I personally know some kids who I would honestly assess as A Minor Black or maybe A Major White players who made "AA" teams.

I think in five years there won't be anymore A-level hockey.  Kids will go straight from B to AA so parents can (pay to) gloat about how wonderful their kid is, and teams will be glad to take their money to apply that label.  I used to LOVE it when my A Major kids would go to a summer pick-up game, and other parents would rave about their AAA/AA player and how great their team would be.  Then my "inferior" kids would go out there and make them look stupid.  AND... once the season started, my kids would be out there on regular shifts in all phases of the game, and their kids would sit on the bench.

Sorry if I sound salty.  This tryout season really has my head ready to explode from the sheer insanity.  As someone who loves the game of hockey, I just don't get it.

What AA teams are you referring to? Aviators and Icemen? 

[No Politics]

I'd rather not name names.  I will tell you that just off the top of my head I know of FIVE programs that accepted lesser talent to fill out AAA/AA teams.

AAA and AA supplementals?

And I say "I know" because I know the players, and their parents told me where they ended up.

[zam]

1 hour ago, No Politics said:

It would be exciting IF those Tier 2 teams are really Tier 2 teams.  Based off of what I saw, I seriously doubt that.  I personally know some kids who I would honestly assess as A Minor Black or maybe A Major White players who made "AA" teams.

I think in five years there won't be anymore A-level hockey.  Kids will go straight from B to AA so parents can (pay to) gloat about how wonderful their kid is, and teams will be glad to take their money to apply that label.  I used to LOVE it when my A Major kids would go to a summer pick-up game, and other parents would rave about their AAA/AA player and how great their team would be.  Then my "inferior" kids would go out there and make them look stupid.  AND... once the season started, my kids would be out there on regular shifts in all phases of the game, and their kids would sit on the bench.

Sorry if I sound salty.  This tryout season really has my head ready to explode from the sheer insanity.  As someone who loves the game of hockey, I just don't get it.

A lot of people on here like to bash the "extra A", "faux AAA" teams, and parents just wanting to call their kids AAA. And there is plenty of reason to criticize this phenomena.  But I think what MANY of these players and parents are really seeking is just a higher level of training and competition that these teams bring.   

What I think you get on a typical "A" team, and even some "AA" teams is an inexperienced coach, a couple shared ice practices, no dryland or video and a couple moderately competitive local games a week. The roster is likely to have a few kids that truly want to put in the work to get better, a few kids that are happy with their current level of play, and a few kids that would be just as happy skipping practices to play basketball or video games. So you aren't getting that same competitiveness of 18 AAA players all pushing each other because they all think they are on a path to The Show. 

So if you're one of those kids/parents that wants something "more" then you're going to be attracted to these mediocre AAA teams.  And if you're a kid that played a couple years of top level hockey and then was cut, it's probably difficult to get excited to play and train with Mikey's Dad who just started coaching hockey.  

I think if you had a few local organizations that practiced and trained like AAA programs but didn't fly to Chicago to get their butts kicked every weekend there wouldn't be problems filling rosters.

[hockeyisgreat]

4 minutes ago, zam said:

A lot of people on here like to bash the "extra A", "faux AAA" teams, and parents just wanting to call their kids AAA. And there is plenty of reason to criticize this phenomena.  But I think what MANY of these players and parents are really seeking is just a higher level of training and competition that these teams bring.   

What I think you get on a typical "A" team, and even some "AA" teams is an inexperienced coach, a couple shared ice practices, no dryland or video and a couple moderately competitive local games a week. The roster is likely to have a few kids that truly want to put in the work to get better, a few kids that are happy with their current level of play, and a few kids that would be just as happy skipping practices to play basketball or video games. So you aren't getting that same competitiveness of 18 AAA players all pushing each other because they all think they are on a path to The Show. 

So if you're one of those kids/parents that wants something "more" then you're going to be attracted to these mediocre AAA teams.  And if you're a kid that played a couple years of top level hockey and then was cut, it's probably difficult to get excited to play and train with Mikey's Dad who just started coaching hockey.  

I think if you had a few local organizations that practiced and trained like AAA programs but didn't fly to Chicago to get their butts kicked every weekend there wouldn't be problems filling rosters.

Zam, I couldn't of said it any better.  Even a so called Faux AAA team offers a better training and practice schedule!  Sure you pay for it!  But if your kid is really serious and dedicated, maybe a late bloomer, it gives them a chance.  A lot of kids move up from those teams.  I'm not worried about how many A's. I just want to match the dedication level.

[No Politics]

Zam, you're right, and I think we need to make a distinction that what we are saying is not to be applied to every player.  Yes, there are kids who want to play AAA/AA for that extra level of competitiveness.  But what happens when those kids who are "just as happy skipping practices to play basketball or video games" are on the same team as that ultra-competitive kid?  The same thing you described that happens at the A-level.

That's why I made the point about supplementals at the AAA/AA levels.  Who are they getting?

So I feel the "bashing" we hear on this board isn't for every player playing at those levels.  It's for the parents and the programs that water down everything in the area by pumping up kids who would be better served staying at the lower levels and properly developing.