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Mid-Am Select 15 (2008) and 14 (2009)


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1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I have a lot of thoughts but I'll keep them to myself 😀. Congrats and good luck. 

Don’t keep it to yourself. I don’t have a strong opinion on the selections but everything else about MidAm needs to be scrutinized. 

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My quick takeaways without dissecting - there are kids who aren't on the list who should be (no idea why they may have declined or whatever) and there are kids who are on these lists who were literally cut from their teams which tells me they shouldn't be on the list.  

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They could have improved and had a good tryout. Most of the evaluators don’t know most of the players. I believe everyone is scored throughout the weekend and tallied. 

But with 68 kids chosen from twice as many I”d imagine the bottom 10-15 selections could be swapped with cuts. 

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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

There are usually 7+ evaluators over the course of the weekend. And the evaluators don't know the kids. It's a good process.

I hope you are right!  Sure not what I have been told about previous camps!   And how about the new selection process for 17U.  Nominations were reviewed by Tier 1 Coaches. They decided who got invitations!   How many Tier 2 kids did they invite?  No idea what they used for criteria!  Such a joke but typical MidAm stuff!  Oh and if you were nominated once before and went to their camp you got an automatic invite!  Who cares if you got better or worse!

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1 hour ago, RJUSHL said:

There are usually 7+ evaluators over the course of the weekend. And the evaluators don't know the kids. It's a good process.

This is the kind of thing that devalues this board. You make a statement like this as if you know it to be fact and it's 100% false. Tier 1 coaches are allowed to evaluate the kids they have just finished coaching, but not allowed to evaluate kids they will be coaching next season. They know the tier 1 kids better than anybody.

 

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2 hours ago, RoyalTraveller said:

This is the kind of thing that devalues this board. You make a statement like this as if you know it to be fact and it's 100% false. Tier 1 coaches are allowed to evaluate the kids they have just finished coaching, but not allowed to evaluate kids they will be coaching next season. They know the tier 1 kids better than anybody.

 

This^^^^^

PPE coaches have been included in the evaluation process and lo and behold, many gold buckets always seem to advance ahead of those that were more deserving.  I think MidAms are a sham and a complete waste.

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Ok I think I'm right on the 7+ evaluators. I only know this because I've counted. Maybe it's not true across the board but it has been for me after multiple trips.

I'm sure "gold buckets" get the nod at a higher rate than most organizations, but that's because they are generally the best players. Just like I'm sure the Barons move through the process at a higher rate than Team Ohio kids. They just have better players.

For anyone crying foul on the whole process, throw out some specific ways it could be improved. What are your ideas?

Looking at the 08 and 09 list, I do see some AA kids from Pittsburgh that were selected over Esmark AAA and Preds AAA kids. There aren't many, but they are there. Isn't that the type of thing we want to see? Having evaluators actually look at performance and potential vs the number of letters? And looking at the PPE kids on the 08 and 09 list, they absolutely deserve it.

I'm sure the process isn't absolutely perfect, but I still think it's better than any Tier I or Tier II local tryout process. I really don't get all the hate, unless it's become personal for some reason.

UPDATE: My only suggestion is to get a few evaluators from Michigan. It's close by, and there's less of a chance those evaluators will be familiar with a kid or have coached a kid in the past.

 

Edited by RJUSHL
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4 hours ago, hockeyisgreat said:

I hope you are right!  Sure not what I have been told about previous camps!   And how about the new selection process for 17U.  Nominations were reviewed by Tier 1 Coaches. They decided who got invitations!   How many Tier 2 kids did they invite?  No idea what they used for criteria!  Such a joke but typical MidAm stuff!  Oh and if you were nominated once before and went to their camp you got an automatic invite!  Who cares if you got better or worse!

Yes there are quite a few coaches evaluating the kids.  And if you coach an 08 team, for example, you aren't going to be allowed to evaluate 08 kids. 

As for 16 and up, they had to reign in the invites.  Kids were there (at 08 and 09) that had no business being there.  The automatic invite is if you went to the national camp.   

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For those more familiar,  it might help for those who are not to share how the registration process for the 09 and 08 development camp is run.    From the MidAm page it's clear the older ages are invite only.  What about the younger birth years? Can anyone register to attend from 08 and 09 and then are only X amount named to the list posted on line?  From that list of selections, what is the next step, particularly for the 09 group?  Looks like 08s go to NY in July for the USA camp? 

 

 

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For 08s and 09s, I believe tryout invites were sent only off of coach or org recommendations. I don't think any kid that a coach recommends is denied but I'm not completely sure. MidAm sends an email invite for the player to register for the tryouts.

Tryouts for 08s and 09s were the last weekend in April in Toledo. They divided up each birth year into about eight teams, and each team had four scrimmages against other teams. Games were divided into halves with a running clock. Scoresheets were kept.

08s and 09s each had about 160 kids at the tryouts. They whittle that down and 68 are invited to their player development camps. 08s in New York in July and 09s in Toledo in June. I believe both cams are held at colleges and kids are assigned a roommate, get a meal card, and have lots of on-ice and off-ice work over the course of 4-5 days. Supposedly NTDP coaches and personnel in attendance and running a few of the sessions.

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And I'm guessing some players that absolutely should have been there were not nominated and thus not even there, and some were nominated that are questionable.  If you are familiar with those groups and that list there are some names you expect to see, definitely several from this pgh 09 group that are missing (and assume did not go because other wise they would be on the list) and some on the list that would make you shm and wonder.

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4 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

This^^^^^

PPE coaches have been included in the evaluation process and lo and behold, many gold buckets always seem to advance ahead of those that were more deserving.  I think MidAms are a sham and a complete waste.

Saying the whole process is a sham and a total waste of time sounds like a bit of an exaggeration.  I'm sure if they invited 160 players, that potentially the 125th best kid didn't get an invite and the 180th best kid did. And of the final selected 68 kids the 60th best kid got left off and the 80th best kid got selected instead.  There is always going to be some errors, biases, and differing of option.  

But what really matters is that the top 20 or 30 kids made it.  And quite honestly for USA hockeys purposes, they probably only care about the top 10. 

So are you saying that looking at that list there are top 10 or 20 MidAm kids that didn't make the camp? (Unless they chose not to try out)

And does it really matter who is evaluating? I'd imagine every Tom, Dick, and Harry could pick out the top 20 kids from 160. 

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All the best kids don’t always come to the 14u tryout as there is no important end game (just a mid am week camp).   They all show starting at 15u hoping to ultimately be one of the 15 selected for National Camp in July. 

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I don't know much about this, and really don't care to.  What I will tell you is that I know some kids on those lists who were made to look stupid against some A Major and AA kids when they played against each other at Varsity/JV/Middle School this past season.

I saw the shaming occur live with my own eyes, so that makes me question the whole process/purpose.

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20 minutes ago, No Politics said:

I don't know much about this, and really don't care to.  What I will tell you is that I know some kids on those lists who were made to look stupid against some A Major and AA kids when they played against each other at Varsity/JV/Middle School this past season.

I saw the shaming occur live with my own eyes, so that makes me question the whole process/purpose.

So in a non-checking middle school game you saw a A/AA player perform better than a AAA player?  And from that experience you decided that AAA player wasn't worthy of attending Mid Am camp?

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