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The way too early pre-season "rankings"


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27 minutes ago, whome87 said:

You really can’t cross the hockey rankings between pihl and Pahl. That would be like trying to compare tier 3 juniors vs AAA. Doesn’t line up well.

 

there are a lot of weak teams in pihl, I agreed with that but none of those teams you mentioned would have beat pr, na or Latrobe. Again, depth would hurt more then help the Pahl team. 

 

As as I stated above about 50% of the kids on the 3 pihl teams I listed above were playing good AAA or came from AAA and just played school senior season. 

 

Don’t bring numbers or logic to your emotional argument? Got it.

You’re “50% played AAA” is not entirely correct. The PIHL teams did well in HS hockey because they were fairly deep and didn’t have the huge 3rd and 4th line drop in talent that a lot of HS teams have and they played well as a team. 

I watched every one of the teams that you mentioned play in games last year and all 3 of the PAHL teams would’ve come away winners in a game against any one of the PIHL teams. That’s all I’ll say and you can make up your own mind and spin it however you want. 

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21 hours ago, TheUnknown said:

PIHL

NA (AAA) ranked #1 in WPA 90.92 rating

Pine (AA) ranked #1 in WPA 92.7 rating

Latrobe (AA) ranked #2 in WPA 91.18 rating

I know for sure one of the teams mentioned above won't be able to beat any solid 18uAA team this year.  They may be ok this season in their PIHL grouping but only have a few AAA, a few AA and the rest are A level players and their starting goalie is A Minor.  The best goalie in that school isn't even playing for the school.  

Another varsity PIHL team had to get a roller hockey goalie to play for them, as they have nobody else to put in net.

I can see a few of the larger schools (AAA level) having enough depth to play with a good AA team, but to blanket say that that good PIHL teams will beat PAHL teams is stretching it.  You can only go so far running your top 2 lines over and over, and a good deep PAHL team will have better players on the 3rd and 4th lines and that will drain a 2 line rotation.

 

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15 hours ago, TheUnknown said:

Don’t bring numbers or logic to your emotional argument? Got it.

You’re “50% played AAA” is not entirely correct. The PIHL teams did well in HS hockey because they were fairly deep and didn’t have the huge 3rd and 4th line drop in talent that a lot of HS teams have and they played well as a team. 

I watched every one of the teams that you mentioned play in games last year and all 3 of the PAHL teams would’ve come away winners in a game against any one of the PIHL teams. That’s all I’ll say and you can make up your own mind and spin it however you want. 

Not trying to turn this into an argument. Fully disagree. Look up the roster of those teams from last year you will find  half the kids were playing or played the previous year for pens, esmark & Pha. 

We are not talking bottom feeder pihl teams. I’m talking about the top 2-3 in class aaa and class aa. 

Im sorry. Pine Richland would have beat  anything Pahl U18AA had to offer. Go look up the roster of the team they beat for states if you want to talk depth, that team, lines 1 to 4 all came  from high end AAA programs out east. One of their players had a few games in the NAHL (junior titans). There is no kids from or last year playing any High level junior hockey that I am aware of. 

 

I’m no fan of PR. They sand bagged and should have been in class aaa (they would have won that). It’s just the facts! 

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10 hours ago, DrinkTheKoolAid said:

I know for sure one of the teams mentioned above won't be able to beat any solid 18uAA team this year.  They may be ok this season in their PIHL grouping but only have a few AAA, a few AA and the rest are A level players and their starting goalie is A Minor.  The best goalie in that school isn't even playing for the school.  

Another varsity PIHL team had to get a roller hockey goalie to play for them, as they have nobody else to put in net.

I can see a few of the larger schools (AAA level) having enough depth to play with a good AA team, but to blanket say that that good PIHL teams will beat PAHL teams is stretching it.  You can only go so far running your top 2 lines over and over, and a good deep PAHL team will have better players on the 3rd and 4th lines and that will drain a 2 line rotation.

 

You are talking this year. Players graduate. We wont know who the real good PIHL teams are until November. 

You don’t think 2 lines can win ? Look at last years U16pens who were AAA national champions. They ran two lines, in fact two players alone and a good performance by the goalie is what won them the championship game! 

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1 hour ago, whome87 said:

You are talking this year. Players graduate. We wont know who the real good PIHL teams are until November. 

You don’t think 2 lines can win ? Look at last years U16pens who were AAA national champions. They ran two lines, in fact two players alone and a good performance by the goalie is what won them the championship game! 

You're going to compare a 16uAAA team to PIHL Varsity and PAHL 18uAA??

You must be one of the 134 people in the whole tri-state area that even knows the 16uAAA Pens won and how they play only 2 lines.  

Carry your logic forward.  One non-school team won the 16uAAA NC using only 2 lines.  the other 120 AAA teams LOST trying to win with 2-3 or 4 lines.  What's your point? Yes, I would guess the Pens team was very good and they could get away with rolling mostly 2 lines (which the pros don't even do...).

This same 16uAAA team can have players from around the world on it.

Can varsity hockey teams have players from around the country (legally)?  No

Can PAHL teams have kids from anywhere on them?  Yes

So the probabilities would be that top AA teams would in general be more strong than top school teams, as they aren't confined by boundaries and can pull kids from multiple schools onto one team.  

School teams on the other hand have to be pretty fortunate if there are more than a few kids in the whole school that play AAA or AA hockey on one team.  While we're at it how much does it make a difference if you have a few players that play AAA hockey but those teams are in the bottom 25% of AAA.  Equate that to a line on a PIHL team with 3 kids from 16uAAA Esmark and 16uAAA Vengance both of whom were lower level AAA teams. 

What if you have 2-3 kids from a team like Armstrong AA (or other top AA teams) the last few years when they were really good and in the top 10% of AA?

Non-school teams that can pull from anywhere SHOULD be higher ranked than most school teams.

This is all pretty much a moot point.  Since the school teams rarely, if ever play non-school teams we won't be able to gauge this anyway.

Edited by Scooby Doo
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Set up the games!  I’d come watch 18U AA Allegheny, Predators, and North Pittsburgh play North Allegheny, Pine Richland, Peters Twp and Bethel Park.  Popcorn for all.  You could make it into a fundraiser for Special Needs Hockey!!!

IMO, 75-80% of the games would be won by the PAHL teams.

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Except some of the players play both PAHL and PIHL, so then, unless you are cloning players, they wouldn't even truly be playing the team.

This is kind of a silly discussion because of its mootness, as others said. Might as well argue over who will win in a fight, Captain America or Iron Man? Each division serves different purposes and it is unnecessary to compare.

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6 hours ago, PuckHead7 said:

Set up the games!  I’d come watch 18U AA Allegheny, Predators, and North Pittsburgh play North Allegheny, Pine Richland, Peters Twp and Bethel Park.  Popcorn for all.  You could make it into a fundraiser for Special Needs Hockey!!!

IMO, 75-80% of the games would be won by the PAHL teams.

I might look into this. 

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On 8/22/2019 at 6:16 AM, PuckHead7 said:

Set up the games!  I’d come watch 18U AA Allegheny, Predators, and North Pittsburgh play North Allegheny, Pine Richland, Peters Twp and Bethel Park.  Popcorn for all.  You could make it into a fundraiser for Special Needs Hockey!!!

IMO, 75-80% of the games would be won by the PAHL teams.

I'd come and watch those games, too. No matter who won, they'd be barn burners.

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