Credit where credit is due

[YardSale]

Dowiak and DiMarsico for PSU out of PPE lighting it up tonight in NCAA tournament.  Nice to see the PGH influence.

[hockeydadx3]

15 hours ago, YardSale said:

Dowiak and DiMarsico for PSU out of PPE lighting it up tonight in NCAA tournament.  Nice to see the PGH influence.

Zero credit is allowed for PPE on this chain. 
 

- @aaaahockey

[zam]

Just to keep things fair and not always about PPE, how are the former Vengeance and Esmark D1 players doing in the NCAA tournament?

 

[aaaahockey]

7 hours ago, hockeydadx3 said:

Zero credit is allowed for PPE on this chain. 
 

- @aaaahockey

I think someone is having buyers remorse.   Just to be clear Dowiak played 2 years at pens elite.  Congrats on whoever developed him in his younger years and got him there.  Pens picked up a developed stud.   DiMarsico you might have more of an argument for I think he played 3 years but left and went to the Buffalo regals.  Neither of them had to play elite mites or squirts to get to this point in their careers and I'm pretty sure neither of them went to North Catholic 😁

[3v3]

5 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

I think someone is having buyers remorse.   Just to be clear Dowiak played 2 years at pens elite.  Congrats on whoever developed him in his younger years and got him there.  Pens picked up a developed stud.   DiMarsico you might have more of an argument for I think he played 3 years but left and went to the Buffalo regals.  Neither of them had to play elite mites or squirts to get to this point in their careers and I'm pretty sure neither of them went to North Catholic 😁

Both began playing at PPE during their U10 years and played through U16. Each went the prep school route afterwards and played for their school and a split season team. 

[zam]

13 minutes ago, 3v3 said:

Both began playing at PPE during their U10 years and played through U16. Each went the prep school route afterwards and played for their school and a split season team. 

Sounds like AAAA is right, they picked up some developed 9 year old studs! 

[Denis Lemiuex]

Brian Kramer from Wexford is in the Frozen Four for Western Michigan. Also PPE alumni.

[aaaahockey]

17 hours ago, zam said:

Sounds like AAAA is right, they picked up some developed 9 year old studs! 

Keep drinking the Kool aid boys   it's good for you!

[Rewster]

5 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Keep drinking the Kool aid boys   it's good for you!

Steve Weeks mentioned the Pens Elite and Pittsburgh products at least 3X during the telecast. He seemed sold.

[zam]

8 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

Keep drinking the Kool aid boys   it's good for you!

I would just like to know, once and for all, what organization in your mind is the best example of a model program for player development? 

Your current complaint is Pens players develop elsewhere. But I look at the MHR and Nationals qualifiers at 15,16,18 and a huge number of the teams are Prep Schools, split season teams, or programs that don't have teams younger than bantam or midget. SSM, Mount, South Kent, MFF,  BK, Culver. 

And if I really took the time and studied the composition of the rosters I would guess teams like Gulls, Mission are also full of out of town recruited players.  The team you might point to Lil Caesars, always successful at most age levels, but those players rarely stay on the same team year in and year out, they jump between LC, Oakland, HoneyBaked, and they also pull a lot of national recruits.

So I think Pittsburgh is lucky to have a program that players are attracted to play for from out of town. And a program that yearly sends multiple teams to Nationals.  

The other area "AAA" teams in the area MIGHT be able to keep 2-3 AAA players in a given birthyear, but they are never going to attract any out of towners to come play there. And they rarely have enough quality players to be relevant.  And their best players eventually leave those organizations as well, examples 06 SHAHA, 08 vengeance.

Just for fun, walk into the office at Alpha someday and ask if there's someone that can tell you about the Vengeance program. You get Larry Moe and Curly looking at you like you interrupted their game of poker. 

And the team formerly known as Esmark, is more of an immigration program than a hockey program.  The local kids compose most of the rosters and pay most of the fees, then a plane load of wealthy Soviet Bloc players arrive at the beginning of the season with a briefcase full of roubles for the ownership. 

So please tell me if I had a gifted 8 year old, and flexibility to move anywhere, what 3 organizations would you suggest I look at?
 

[hockeydadx3]

5 hours ago, zam said:

I would just like to know, once and for all, what organization in your mind is the best example of a model program for player development? 

Your current complaint is Pens players develop elsewhere. But I look at the MHR and Nationals qualifiers at 15,16,18 and a huge number of the teams are Prep Schools, split season teams, or programs that don't have teams younger than bantam or midget. SSM, Mount, South Kent, MFF,  BK, Culver. 

And if I really took the time and studied the composition of the rosters I would guess teams like Gulls, Mission are also full of out of town recruited players.  The team you might point to Lil Caesars, always successful at most age levels, but those players rarely stay on the same team year in and year out, they jump between LC, Oakland, HoneyBaked, and they also pull a lot of national recruits.

So I think Pittsburgh is lucky to have a program that players are attracted to play for from out of town. And a program that yearly sends multiple teams to Nationals.  

The other area "AAA" teams in the area MIGHT be able to keep 2-3 AAA players in a given birthyear, but they are never going to attract any out of towners to come play there. And they rarely have enough quality players to be relevant.  And their best players eventually leave those organizations as well, examples 06 SHAHA, 08 vengeance.

Just for fun, walk into the office at Alpha someday and ask if there's someone that can tell you about the Vengeance program. You get Larry Moe and Curly looking at you like you interrupted their game of poker. 

And the team formerly known as Esmark, is more of an immigration program than a hockey program.  The local kids compose most of the rosters and pay most of the fees, then a plane load of wealthy Soviet Bloc players arrive at the beginning of the season with a briefcase full of roubles for the ownership. 

So please tell me if I had a gifted 8 year old, and flexibility to move anywhere, what 3 organizations would you suggest I look at?
 

@aaaahockey would suggest playing in house at RMU through Bantam and then hockey for your local high school team. 

[Carl Racki]

6 hours ago, zam said:

I would just like to know, once and for all, what organization in your mind is the best example of a model program for player development? 

Your current complaint is Pens players develop elsewhere. But I look at the MHR and Nationals qualifiers at 15,16,18 and a huge number of the teams are Prep Schools, split season teams, or programs that don't have teams younger than bantam or midget. SSM, Mount, South Kent, MFF,  BK, Culver. 

And if I really took the time and studied the composition of the rosters I would guess teams like Gulls, Mission are also full of out of town recruited players.  The team you might point to Lil Caesars, always successful at most age levels, but those players rarely stay on the same team year in and year out, they jump between LC, Oakland, HoneyBaked, and they also pull a lot of national recruits.

So I think Pittsburgh is lucky to have a program that players are attracted to play for from out of town. And a program that yearly sends multiple teams to Nationals.  

The other area "AAA" teams in the area MIGHT be able to keep 2-3 AAA players in a given birthyear, but they are never going to attract any out of towners to come play there. And they rarely have enough quality players to be relevant.  And their best players eventually leave those organizations as well, examples 06 SHAHA, 08 vengeance.

Just for fun, walk into the office at Alpha someday and ask if there's someone that can tell you about the Vengeance program. You get Larry Moe and Curly looking at you like you interrupted their game of poker. 

And the team formerly known as Esmark, is more of an immigration program than a hockey program.  The local kids compose most of the rosters and pay most of the fees, then a plane load of wealthy Soviet Bloc players arrive at the beginning of the season with a briefcase full of roubles for the ownership. 

So please tell me if I had a gifted 8 year old, and flexibility to move anywhere, what 3 organizations would you suggest I look at?
 

Pens Elite has a great program.  My only complaint is the expense of the program.  Hockey is in a sad state where a lot of people way over pay chasing a dream.  It sometimes ruins families lives while people are making profits off of them and their child chasing a dream.  It is nice when there are other options but those do tend to be limited and not consistent.  Kudos to teams that make them available from time to time 

[Icebucket]

2 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

Pens Elite has a great program.  My only complaint is the expense of the program.  Hockey is in a sad state where a lot of people way over pay chasing a dream.  It sometimes ruins families lives while people are making profits off of them and their child chasing a dream.  It is nice when there are other options but those do tend to be limited and not consistent.  Kudos to teams that make them available from time to time 

This pretty much sums it up.  If you want to stay local and play on the best team possible it's almost always going to be PPE.  The downside is the incredibly high cost.  If you compare PPE to other top end programs in other cities, PPE is often 2x the cost of other programs offering a similar or better product in terms of ice time and training.  In many cases, especially at the older ages, the bottom 17-18 players are paying the bill to showcase the top 2-3 players on that team.  The problem is, 20 different families believe their child is one of those top 2-3.

[Happy Hockey Fan]

Geregach in ECHL, 10 points in 12 games as a defenseman. Not PPE product, only played AAA at U18. There are more than one way to pros besides PPE. 

[carroll81]

On 3/31/2025 at 1:46 PM, Carl Racki said:

Pens Elite has a great program.  My only complaint is the expense of the program.  Hockey is in a sad state where a lot of people way over pay chasing a dream.  It sometimes ruins families lives while people are making profits off of them and their child chasing a dream.  It is nice when there are other options but those do tend to be limited and not consistent.  Kudos to teams that make them available from time to time 

 

What is the cost for their program?  Is it that much more than other T1 teams?

 

[fafa fohi]

18 hours ago, carroll81 said:

 

What is the cost for their program?  Is it that much more than other T1 teams?

 

All-in with Excel and NC tuition would probably be between $35-40K a year.  I don't think U18 players that are 18 years old have to attend NC, but I may be wrong.

[RefHannah]

On 4/2/2025 at 12:41 PM, fafa fohi said:

All-in with Excel and NC tuition would probably be between $35-40K a year.  I don't think U18 players that are 18 years old have to attend NC, but I may be wrong.

Shattuck St Mary's, Avon Old Farms, Mt Saint Charles, South Kent, Bishop Kearney, Are all in the 60-70k neighborhood. Yes those are boarding schools, but those are the numbers we are talking about 

Now if you want to uproot your family, move to some other city like Cleveland and play for the Barons and go to public school, you can probably save some money Vs the Pens/NC option. 

The fact is hockey is expensive, the higher the level, the more expensive it gets.  

 

 

 

 

[Carl Racki]

3 hours ago, RefHannah said:

Shattuck St Mary's, Avon Old Farms, Mt Saint Charles, South Kent, Bishop Kearney, Are all in the 60-70k neighborhood. Yes those are boarding schools, but those are the numbers we are talking about 

Now if you want to uproot your family, move to some other city like Cleveland and play for the Barons and go to public school, you can probably save some money Vs the Pens/NC option. 

The fact is hockey is expensive, the higher the level, the more expensive it gets.  

 

 

 

 

I truly hope no one is stupid enough to pay $60-70k to play hockey anywhere lol. By the time you are done you could have paid for college a few times especially after they pay their advisor lol

[Duck Bill]

12 hours ago, Carl Racki said:

I truly hope no one is stupid enough to pay $60-70k to play hockey anywhere lol. By the time you are done you could have paid for college a few times especially after they pay their advisor lol

I think you severely underestimate the amount of money some of the parents out there have.

[sadday4hockey]

And we all know what they say a about a fool and their money.

[Duck Bill]

4 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

And we all know what they say a about a fool and their money.

That's of little comfort for most folks when the fools have all of the money and resources.

Edited April 4, 2025 by Duck Bill

[carroll81]

On 4/2/2025 at 1:41 PM, fafa fohi said:

All-in with Excel and NC tuition would probably be between $35-40K a year.  I don't think U18 players that are 18 years old have to attend NC, but I may be wrong.

Thanks Fafa.  If there was no NC, any idea what the price would be?

[Duck Bill]

On 4/5/2025 at 10:49 AM, carroll81 said:

Thanks Fafa.  If there was no NC, any idea what the price would be?

I think all of their costs are in their "Overview" document here:

https://www.pittsburghpenguinselite.com/documents

[fafa fohi]

On 4/5/2025 at 10:49 AM, carroll81 said:

Thanks Fafa.  If there was no NC, any idea what the price would be?

I don’t know what NC’s tuition is, although like most area Catholic High Schools it’s probably around $15K a year. 

[ANKLEBENDER]

I’m curious as to how often and how much financial aid has been granted?

Hockey was expensive to play 30 years ago and seems to be pricing itself out of a lot of family budgets.