2025-26 PAHL Team Placement

Happy Hockey Fan · October 11

Who does the pre-season placements? Is it all PAHL or does organization have input?

We played our third placement game. 13-0. One shot on goal against. So that is 32 goals for, and 5 SHOTS against in 3 games. 2 games where there was a running clock in the second period and we didn’t even play the 3rd. TWICE THIS HAS HAPPENED ALREADY. We are supposed to travel to Crawford county for a game in 2 weeks. Crawford county has been blown out by the teams we blew out. It is not only a waste of time but also money. In two preseason games we still had a half hour of ice time left that was wasted.

There is plenty of information about theses kids coming out of mites, and we fill out paperwork stating their experience and at what level of mite they played. Did everyone ignore the info? Half the team played at the highest level of mites and were very successful, the other half played in the second highest level of mites and were very successful.

And the organization graded these kids coming out of tryouts yet we were placed 2 levels below a team rated lower than us coming out of tryouts. We were designated team 2 placed in A4, the other was designated team 3 and placed in A2. Does PAHL not consider this?

I have been involved in PAHL for 15 years as a coach and parent. Have never seen anyone placed this poorly in preseason.

Someone really failed these kids, and wasted their parents money.

nemesis8679 · October 12

The org submits their preferred placements. Age of players is a factor that's considered. Go directly to the org for help.

I also don't know this officially but over the years it seems the amount of teams in given divisions is considered to keep each division to no more than ten and no less than eight. So a team that should be moved up or down doesn't move if a corresponding team from the next division doesn't move. This leads to certain teams dominating or getting beat up on all season.

I would say if your team, isn't moved at least one division up somebody is failing in their role.

Happy Hockey Fan · October 12

7 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

The org submits their preferred placements. Age of players is a factor that's considered. Go directly to the org for help.

I also don't know this officially but over the years it seems the amount of teams in given divisions is considered to keep each division to no more than ten and no less than eight. So a team that should be moved up or down doesn't move if a corresponding team from the next division doesn't move. This leads to certain teams dominating or getting beat up on all season.

I would say if your team, isn't moved at least one division up somebody is failing in their role.

Thank you, now I know where to start.

James Gatz · October 13

On 10/10/2025 at 10:18 AM, newhockeydad said:

I just happened to check the Extra Placement spreadsheet with PAHL and a non-PAHL game that we played is listed on there. It was against another PAHL team, so maybe they are looking at certain games that were not in the placement window.

The only way a game like that makes it on the spreadsheet is if one of the team managers adds it. I'm assuming this was a local tournament that created the matchup. I don't know of any rule preventing its addition, but they would have had to do it early enough to be assigned a PAHL game number. Not sure how the switch to GameSheet might factor if the tournament is using a different scoring means or even a different GameSheet setup.

newhockeydad · October 13

6 hours ago, James Gatz said:

The only way a game like that makes it on the spreadsheet is if one of the team managers adds it. I'm assuming this was a local tournament that created the matchup. I don't know of any rule preventing its addition, but they would have had to do it early enough to be assigned a PAHL game number. Not sure how the switch to GameSheet might factor if the tournament is using a different scoring means or even a different GameSheet setup.

So this game was a non-PAHL game that we played in early September. No tournament or anything like that. The same team had another game listed that was from a tournament I believe, so maybe the manager did add it to help there case for moving up more than 1 division?

James Gatz · October 13

28 minutes ago, newhockeydad said:

So this game was a non-PAHL game that we played in early September. No tournament or anything like that. The same team had another game listed that was from a tournament I believe, so maybe the manager did add it to help there case for moving up more than 1 division?

Sounds like you might be right. I don't think PAHL will consider that game. Their guidance to teams is pretty clear that only teams played against other PAHL teams, during the placement season, and scheduled in advance through PAHL will be considered.

sadday4hockey · October 13

On 10/11/2025 at 6:06 PM, Happy Hockey Fan said:

In two preseason games we still had a half hour of ice time left that was wasted.

The game results suck, but if it's your home ice you should be able to stay on until the actual curfew time. Be creative and mix up the players from both teams and play pickup. At $500/hour you need every minute. Or just play cross ice with your own team.

Happy Hockey Fan · October 13

1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

The game results suck, but if it's your home ice you should be able to stay on until the actual curfew time. Be creative and mix up the players from both teams and play pickup. At $500/hour you need every minute. Or just play cross ice with your own team.

I’d be all for that, even suggested to the coach.

James Gatz · October 16

I looked at the next closest division to 10U and see some curious outcomes from the 12U final placements. Across the categories, there are some teams that seem like they should have moved up another spot or dropped down.

According to PAHL's own administrative policies, the expected number of teams per division is 8-11, but that proper placement of teams shall take precedence over the quantity of teams placed in each division. Other than the 10U division, there are playoff implications for the size of the division.

11 or more divisional teams=top six qualify for postseason
6-10 divisional teams=top four
5 or less=top two

PAHL further says, "The competition numbers compiled each season validate the effectiveness of the placement process. The PAHL seeks to have 50% of games within each division have a goal differential of 2 or less. Additionally, the league seeks to have 75% of all games have a goal differential of 4 or less, plus 90% of all games being within 6 goals. "

With that background, here is what the 12U looks like. They did away with the A6 division entirely. As a result, the total number of teams and MHR spread from top to bottom of the division looks like the following:

Division	Number of Teams	Highest rated team on MHR as of 10/16	Lowest Rated team on MHR as of 10/16	Spread from High to Low
AA	8	88.43	81.93	6.5
A1	10	84.18	78.02	6.16
A2	13	80.32	74.23	6.09
A3	9	78.28	72.74	5.54
A4	12	74.68	70.08	4.6
A5	8	70.62	67.3	3.32
B	10	65.58	59.86	5.72

I know they don't look at the MHR numbers, but it may shed light on the expected goal differentials.

There was some movement of teams after placements through appeals with some teams moving up and some teams moving down via the appeals process.

Macky85 · October 16

2 hours ago, James Gatz said:

There was some movement of teams after placements through appeals with some teams moving up and some teams moving down via the appeals process.

Unfortunately PAHL does not permit appeals for 10u.

newhockeydad · October 16

5 hours ago, James Gatz said:

I looked at the next closest division to 10U and see some curious outcomes from the 12U final placements. Across the categories, there are some teams that seem like they should have moved up another spot or dropped down.

According to PAHL's own administrative policies, the expected number of teams per division is 8-11, but that proper placement of teams shall take precedence over the quantity of teams placed in each division. Other than the 10U division, there are playoff implications for the size of the division.

11 or more divisional teams=top six qualify for postseason

6-10 divisional teams=top four

5 or less=top two

PAHL further says, "The competition numbers compiled each season validate the effectiveness of the placement process. The PAHL seeks to have 50% of games within each division have a goal differential of 2 or less. Additionally, the league seeks to have 75% of all games have a goal differential of 4 or less, plus 90% of all games being within 6 goals. "

With that background, here is what the 12U looks like. They did away with the A6 division entirely. As a result, the total number of teams and MHR spread from top to bottom of the division looks like the following:

Division Number of Teams Highest rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Lowest Rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Spread from High to Low

AA 8 88.43 81.93 6.5

A1 10 84.18 78.02 6.16

A2 13 80.32 74.23 6.09

A3 9 78.28 72.74 5.54

A4 12 74.68 70.08 4.6

A5 8 70.62 67.3 3.32

B 10 65.58 59.86 5.72

I know they don't look at the MHR numbers, but it may shed light on the expected goal differentials.

There was some movement of teams after placements through appeals with some teams moving up and some teams moving down via the appeals process.

That is pretty interesting. I took a look at A2 and A3 in 10U and from an MHR Stand point, the divisions are fairly even

Division Number of Teams Highest rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Lowest Rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Spread from High to Low Average Ranking

A2 8 80.1 72.1 8.00 76.3

A3 8 80.1 71.6 8.50 76.2

There are a lot of teams that have played a fair amount of games so far but there are still a couple that only have a few games reported. I am really curious to see how this rating compares once the teams have all played placement games. There are a couple teams in A1 that could probably fit in this and a few teams from A4 that could play well in this mix. I wonder if PAHL would condense the A Divisions down and maybe have a really strong division with 12 teams or so in it.

nemesis8679 · October 17

5 hours ago, newhockeydad said:

That is pretty interesting. I took a look at A2 and A3 in 10U and from an MHR Stand point, the divisions are fairly even

Division Number of Teams Highest rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Lowest Rated team on MHR as of 10/16 Spread from High to Low Average Ranking

A2 8 80.1 72.1 8.00 76.3

A3 8 80.1 71.6 8.50 76.2

There are a lot of teams that have played a fair amount of games so far but there are still a couple that only have a few games reported. I am really curious to see how this rating compares once the teams have all played placement games. There are a couple teams in A1 that could probably fit in this and a few teams from A4 that could play well in this mix. I wonder if PAHL would condense the A Divisions down and maybe have a really strong division with 12 teams or so in it.

MHR doesn't mean anything this early in the season.

Macky85 · October 17

The more games played the more accurate MHR will be. At a minimum a team probably needs to play at least 10 games before they're MHR is in the ballpark. I believe MHR won't post a ranking unless 5 games have been played.

For established teams it's probably more accurate but first year squirt or a team with a fair amount of new players I wouldn't read too much into MHR until Nov/Dec.

Looking at current game results for the team Happy Hockey is referencing, they would probably be a top team if moved up to A3 or be competitive in A2. Since their other team is already in A2, I for see his team being moved up the typical one division to A3.

It's possible their team in A2 could get bumped down to A3 and if his team gets moved up, they would have two teams in the same division. Look at 12u this season. There's quite a few orgs that have two teams in the same division.

Edited October 17 by Macky85

Happy Hockey Fan · October 17

4 hours ago, Macky85 said:

The more games played the more accurate MHR will be. At a minimum a team probably needs to play at least 10 games before they're MHR is in the ballpark. I believe MHR won't post a ranking unless 5 games have been played.

For established teams it's probably more accurate but first year squirt or a team with a fair amount of new players I wouldn't read too much into MHR until Nov/Dec.

Looking at current game results for the team Happy Hockey is referencing, they would probably be a top team if moved up to A3 or be competitive in A2. Since their other team is already in A2, I for see his team being moved up the typical one division to A3.

It's possible their team in A2 could get bumped down to A3 and if his team gets moved up, they would have two teams in the same division. Look at 12u this season. There's quite a few orgs that have two teams in the same division.

I wouldn’t mind being the same division, I have seen it many times over the years.

celly68 · October 19

How did the local teams do in ccm ?

kake · October 20

19 hours ago, celly68 said:

How did the local teams do in ccm ?

https://200x85.com/event/ccm-motown/schedule-scores-13/#event-main

James Gatz · October 20

How does PAHL typically evaluate player transfers after placements from a team in a higher division to a team in a lower division? Some parents on a team in a division asked me and I had no idea. The scenario is they are hearing that a team in their division has recruited a player away from a team in a higher division who was dissatisfied with their team's placement. The people that asked me are wonder if PAHL is going to permit their division opponent from bringing in ringer. I read what is on the governance page (requires approval of supermajority of placement committee) but I have no idea what this means in practice.

sample39 · October 20

27 minutes ago, James Gatz said:

How does PAHL typically evaluate player transfers after placements from a team in a higher division to a team in a lower division? Some parents on a team in a division asked me and I had no idea. The scenario is they are hearing that a team in their division has recruited a player away from a team in a higher division who was dissatisfied with their team's placement. The people that asked me are wonder if PAHL is going to permit their division opponent from bringing in ringer. I read what is on the governance page (requires approval of supermajority of placement committee) but I have no idea what this means in practice.

PAHL does not want players transferring from one PAHL team to another PAHL team mid-season. It's likely this will get blocked, unless all parties worked out a deal w/ the league beforehand. Based on the scenario you described, I can't see this getting approved.

Happy Hockey Fan · October 20

4 hours ago, sample39 said:

PAHL does not want players transferring from one PAHL team to another PAHL team mid-season. It's likely this will get blocked, unless all parties worked out a deal w/ the league beforehand. Based on the scenario you described, I can't see this getting approved.

It can happen. I have seen a kid move from one team to another team in the same division. All parties were in agreement though.

James Gatz · October 20

52 minutes ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

It can happen. I have seen a kid move from one team to another team in the same division. All parties were in agreement though.

My understanding is that the old team isn't going to stand in the way. The concerns are from the other teams in the destination (lower) division.

Edited October 20 by James Gatz

fafa fohi · October 20

Are we really still talking about 9-10 year old Squirt level here?

Edited October 20 by fafa fohi

Happy Hockey Fan · October 20

2 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Are we really still talking about 9-10 year old Squirt level here?

Since you don’t seem like it matters, how would you feel if your child was on a team that won games so badly they only played two of the three periods? Would you be ok with it?

James Gatz · October 20

3 hours ago, fafa fohi said:

Are we really still talking about 9-10 year old Squirt level here?

The situation I mentioned was 12u or 14u. Placements were only recently completed. Petty sue it was 12u.

fafa fohi · October 21

16 hours ago, Happy Hockey Fan said:

Since you don’t seem like it matters, how would you feel if your child was on a team that won games so badly they only played two of the three periods? Would you be ok with it?

All I did was ask a question, bro. No need to get all lathered up about it.

Although I do see the entertainment value in watching hockey dad going fully anabolic on 9-10 year old hockey as if their star player is placed on the wrong team which would result in him "not developing as a hockey player"

Happy Hockey Fan · October 21

1 hour ago, fafa fohi said:

All I did was ask a question, bro. No need to get all lathered up about it.

Although I do see the entertainment value in watching hockey dad going fully anabolic on 9-10 year old hockey as if their star player is placed on the wrong team which would result in him "not developing as a hockey player"

Answer the question, would you be alright with your kid playing on a team that doesn’t get to finish games because they are placed so badly?

I never said any kid was a star player. I only said that the team is placed very poorly. And if you don’t think it would hinder development playing 10 games a year playing only two of the three periods and pounding teams 10-0 hurts development, keep your opinion to yourself. Because of that is the case, you obviously don’t know anything anyway.

I never once claimed that any kid on the team was a star player. Never suggested any of the kids was a potential star. Never said anything about how good the team was. Just said they are placed very poorly.

have a nice day. Glad you take pleasure in others misery. Shows what a good person you are.

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