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Maybe one of pgh’s biggest money grabs


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I’ve read it here before and I’ll repeat it. If the AAA team is not playing in a real league nobody is watching. Bob G wrote a article on this about a year or two ago. Independent AAA teams do not expose your player very much, if at all to the next level (high end juniors). 

HPHL

NAPHL 

TIER1 ELITE

those are the top 3 youth leagues in the states. PPE just left the t1el to started their own. eventually this league will  be all academy & prep schools, ultimately at the top of the food chain once it grows. 

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1 hour ago, twoleftfeetd said:

I’ve read it here before and I’ll repeat it. If the AAA team is not playing in a real league nobody is watching. Bob G wrote a article on this about a year or two ago. Independent AAA teams do not expose your player very much, if at all to the next level (high end juniors). 

HPHL

NAPHL 

TIER1 ELITE

those are the top 3 youth leagues in the states. PPE just left the t1el to started their own. eventually this league will  be all academy & prep schools, ultimately at the top of the food chain once it grows. 

The point is though that none of the Icemen teams should even be playing independent 

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“Parents paying too much.”  Why do you care?  To tell the truth, I used to care.  No so much any more because it’s going to be what it’s going to be.  These teams will always exist. Thousands more than regular PAHL teams.  Maybe they get more ice, maybe a gym membership, maybe non-parent coaching, tournaments/ind game/showcases included.  It all drives up the price.  Maybe they don’t want to play the same local teams 4 times each during the season.  Whatever the reason, who really cares?  It gives people like us something to talk about. ?

I’ll agree with most of the comments above.  Icemen (some, not all) really good PAHL teams.  IMO, U18 shouldn’t be ranked as high as they are. BV took the real hit.  Icemen exists only to bring in more money for the rink/owners.

Preds, that’s a debacle.  Especially at the U18 level.  Preds 405 (8 and 0 in PAHL) would beat the AAA team. (Or, they’d have a really close game)  Rumor has it, AAA won’t go anywhere near the top AA team.  Top AA is paying a pretty little penny. Seams that they are getting their monies worth though. Nice Hybrid PAHL team.  If more of the PAHL organizations ran with this type of schedule, maybe the pseudo AAA/ind teams will just go away.  While doing so, AA would gain 40-50 more top end players making the competition at that level much stronger. Just my opinion.

Edited by OrrWhat
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Renegades birth year teams are around $3700 and some of these teams are A Major Black, A Major Gold..............Preds and Icemen are around same price right?

So if anyone should be discussing money grab......

 

vipers stars also similar cost?

Edited by bender05
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23 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Icemen as a whole are a complete joke. The powers that be have taken a once thriving Butler Valley organization and dismantled it to the point of which it may never recover. And to what end? To have a group of teams be forced to pay 3-4x what they could be paying as BV teams:

 

Once thriving, once thriving .... . that may be one of the funniest things I read on this board. Oh Johnny boy, don't be bitter that you were forced out because of your desire to control the entire organization.  Your politics is what killed BV.  Remember that year you used your influence to get your son's team placed at AA and they went 0-20.   Own it, be proud, its what you do.  You should focus on what is wrong with PAHL (something you could change) and not on where others choose to spend their money.  THEIR MONEY .  All you do is try to cause problems by your negativity.  You are an embarrassment to local hockey.  Heck, even your old pal Darcee would agree.

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The Vengeance really didn't influence the Renegades much.  Most of the 08, 09 and 10's came from other organizations.  Those kids wouldn't be there if they weren't the Vengeance.  The 06 team is a different story.  Although it was a Renegade team, most of those kids did come from elsewhere as well.

The damage to BV was done by the Lemieux Center not the Icemen.  Essentially, you have pulled the top 5-10 mites out of most organizations.  They go there with the hopes of making the PPE in Squirts. 

The way to fix AA hockey is to limit the number of games to 10.  Or have every team play each other once.  That way you can play PAHL and independent games.  So, PAHL won't get in the way of a team playing an independent schedule. 

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HPHL is very good due to strength of teams, regional location and limited to 3 Chicago and 3 Detroit.

T1EHL tried to get too big and too widespread plus let itself get diluted. PPE leaving definitely hurt the league at the 14, 15, 16 and 18 levels but at the same time they hurt themselves at the younger age groups with no league to play in.

Time will tell on these new leagues. Little Caesar's has left the T1 and the HPHL within the last 10 years but the 4 Clubs is more of a scheduling agreement than an actual league.

The Northeast Pack? Who knows? The people at Mount St Charles people are the ones who up and left Selects Academy at South Kent. If someone offers them more $$$ they may leave there although I'm not sure any could offer more. The other 4 teams are all amateur organizations, so all Prep/Academy doesn't make sense.

The NAPHL? It sucks. Period.

 

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It's okay at the Jr Levels of NCDC and Premier with NCDC being "tuition free" and Premier being full pay to play.

However, at the 15U-18U levels it's a complete mess due to the number of Prep schools in New England and the split-season teams and so forth.

There is a youth component for 14U and younger but it's not great either. There are 1 or two top 40 teams in each age group but the Boston Jr Eagles set the standard in New England and in the country.

 

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3 hours ago, howard1 said:

I don’t have a kid playing Tier 1, how does the usphl stack up to previously mentioned leagues?

At the youth levels, as mentioned above it’s a mess. The premier junior level is like post grad high school hockey in terms of talent. The ncdc is pretty good but it’s nowhere near the NAHL. 

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17 hours ago, OrrWhat said:

“Parents paying too much.”  Why do you care?  To tell the truth, I used to care.  No so much any more because it’s going to be what it’s going to be.  These teams will always exist. Thousands more than regular PAHL teams.  Maybe they get more ice, maybe a gym membership, maybe non-parent coaching, tournaments/ind game/showcases included.  It all drives up the price.  Maybe they don’t want to play the same local teams 4 times each during the season.  Whatever the reason, who really cares?  It gives people like us something to talk about. ?

I’ll agree with most of the comments above.  Icemen (some, not all) really good PAHL teams.  IMO, U18 shouldn’t be ranked as high as they are. BV took the real hit.  Icemen exists only to bring in more money for the rink/owners.

Preds, that’s a debacle.  Especially at the U18 level.  Preds 405 (8 and 0 in PAHL) would beat the AAA team. (Or, they’d have a really close game)  Rumor has it, AAA won’t go anywhere near the top AA team.  Top AA is paying a pretty little penny. Seams that they are getting their monies worth though. Nice Hybrid PAHL team.  If more of the PAHL organizations ran with this type of schedule, maybe the pseudo AAA/ind teams will just go away.  While doing so, AA would gain 40-50 more top end players making the competition at that level much stronger. Just my opinion.

Look it’s a parent who’s kid did not make the preds 18 aaa team so he had to settle for the aa team. Why does your aa team wear the yellow helmets like the preds aaa teams ? 
 

let’s take a guess here - you also came from last years icemen 02 team now you want to trash the icemen because they didn’t do aaa at 18u ? Sound about right ? 
 

word is / rumor has it  - love when people say that. 

Edited by twoleftfeetd
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1 hour ago, twoleftfeetd said:

Look it’s a parent who’s kid did not make the preds 18 aaa team so he had to settle for the aa team. Why does your aa team wear the yellow helmets like the preds aaa teams ? 
 

let’s take a guess here - you also came from last years icemen 02 team now you want to trash the icemen because they didn’t do aaa at 18u ? Sound about right ? 
 

word is / rumor has it  - love when people say that. 

The AA U18 preds team was started by the U16 AA Icemen coach from last year 

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1 hour ago, twoleftfeetd said:

Correct, if you read between the lines orrwhat is a parent from that team & transition. 

Ohhh, you guessed it, you must be a rocket scientist!  I love it when people think that they've got it all figured out.

Two things though.

1) Certain kids/families don’t need the extra A. They know that they are better off on a team that will continue to develop them.  They also know that a big old handful of AA teams are better or equal to a big old handful of the teams that call themselves AAA.  So no, my kid didn't want on the “top” Preds team, nor would he have accepted an offer from that team for a few different reasons.  He is completely happy with his current situation.  Coaches, players and families are wonderful.

2) Yep, left Icemen.  (Along with a bunch of others.)  Why, because they had no real plans for their team going into tryouts.  The little info that we had was less practice and games from the season that just ended.  They’ve played 15 games up to today.  Not sure who shows up for practice or how many they have a week.  I guess, HS friendly.  Not for us.

Talk about reading between the lines.  Struck a nerve, did I?  You’ve just got to be from the Icemen or the Preds AAA team. *said in a stupid voice*  Why else would you care.  Bitter that we left or bitter that your AAA team ain’t doing so hot.  Whateva!  Dumb conversation!  Cut out the faux AAA teams and Make AA Great Again.  Or, leave them and just deal with it.  Don’t matter to me.

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8 hours ago, OrrWhat said:

Ohhh, you guessed it, you must be a rocket scientist!  I love it when people think that they've got it all figured out.

Two things though.

1) Certain kids/families don’t need the extra A. They know that they are better off on a team that will continue to develop them.  They also know that a big old handful of AA teams are better or equal to a big old handful of the teams that call themselves AAA.  So no, my kid didn't want on the “top” Preds team, nor would he have accepted an offer from that team for a few different reasons.  He is completely happy with his current situation.  Coaches, players and families are wonderful.

2) Yep, left Icemen.  (Along with a bunch of others.)  Why, because they had no real plans for their team going into tryouts.  The little info that we had was less practice and games from the season that just ended.  They’ve played 15 games up to today.  Not sure who shows up for practice or how many they have a week.  I guess, HS friendly.  Not for us.

Talk about reading between the lines.  Struck a nerve, did I?  You’ve just got to be from the Icemen or the Preds AAA team. *said in a stupid voice*  Why else would you care.  Bitter that we left or bitter that your AAA team ain’t doing so hot.  Whateva!  Dumb conversation!  Cut out the faux AAA teams and Make AA Great Again.  Or, leave them and just deal with it.  Don’t matter to me.

Spoken like a parent that didn’t get the extra “A”. My question that you ignored - why does your AA team wear yellow helmets ? Only the preds tier 1 teams do that.

no, you guys wouldn’t beat the AAA team. There is no “rumor”, the schedule was made long ago. The 18’s did play the 16’s AAA team. 

just sayin’

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1 hour ago, twoleftfeetd said:

Spoken like a parent that didn’t get the extra “A”. My question that you ignored - why does your AA team wear yellow helmets ? Only the preds tier 1 teams do that.

no, you guys wouldn’t beat the AAA team. There is no “rumor”, the schedule was made long ago. The 18’s did play the 16’s AAA team. 

just sayin’

Spoken like a parent that has the extra A, but regrets it.  Funny, think what ever you want.  As for the yellow helmet, the team wears them because that’s what the team decided to use.  They all have yellow gloves also.  Maybe the other team needs to trade them in for black.

18’s played the 16’s, so what!

just sayin’

Edited by OrrWhat
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59 minutes ago, twoleftfeetd said:

Spoken like a parent that didn’t get the extra “A”. My question that you ignored - why does your AA team wear yellow helmets ? Only the preds tier 1 teams do that.

no, you guys wouldn’t beat the AAA team. There is no “rumor”, the schedule was made long ago. The 18’s did play the 16’s AAA team. 

just sayin’

Dude, really ? You're bragging about a "AAA" team that is 3-16-3 and ranked 110 ?  Really?  You're what's wrong with Western PA hockey.  Arguing like you own proprietary rights to yellow helmets. lmao.  Do you hear yourself ?  3-16-3 .  Come on man.  Just play the AA team and settle it once and for all.

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2 hours ago, JustHockey said:

Dude, really ? You're bragging about a "AAA" team that is 3-16-3 and ranked 110 ?  Really?  You're what's wrong with Western PA hockey.  Arguing like you own proprietary rights to yellow helmets. lmao.  Do you hear yourself ?  3-16-3 .  Come on man.  Just play the AA team and settle it once and for all.

I was not bragging about anything. I ask why the yellow helmets and made a statement. 

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3 hours ago, twoleftfeetd said:

Spoken like a parent that didn’t get the extra “A”. My question that you ignored - why does your AA team wear yellow helmets ? Only the preds tier 1 teams do that.

no, you guys wouldn’t beat the AAA team. There is no “rumor”, the schedule was made long ago. The 18’s did play the 16’s AAA team. 

just sayin’

Actually just to correct you, the 2nd AA team played the 16s, not the top team. Also, if they won’t beat the AAA team, why is their ranking higher than the AAA team?

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3 hours ago, lefthook18 said:

“twoleftfeetd” must be a sorry parent of the 3 win “AAA” team who’s kid isn’t good enough to play anywhere else, so they take lessons with the head coach to get on the team. This is why you stay away from the preds organization

Heard there was a kid from Florida staying with a family on the team so he can play on this U15 “ AAA “ team couldn’t make the AAA team at the Everblades so his family decided to ship him up to this joke 

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