15 hours ago, JohnnyBenderlegs said:

But don't they say they play AAA in tournaments like PPE? 

Either you are baiting me, or you just don't know.  Either way, I'll answer, technically Tier 1 (AAA) doesn't start until Peewee.

7 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Looked into this a bit.

Icemen
2017-18 final rank 33/112 (29th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 85/153 (56th percentile)

Vengeance
2017-18 final rank 87/112 (78th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 107/153 (70th percentile)

Predators
2017-18 final rank 95/112 (85th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 113/153 (74th percentile)

Icemen have slipped a bit.  Was kind of surprised by that.   Other two programs not exactly spotlight material but seem to have improved. 

You can say the vengeance have improved, but if run those same numbers over 4 or 5 years instead of 2 they aren’t looking so good...

7 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Looked into this a bit.

Icemen
2017-18 final rank 33/112 (29th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 85/153 (56th percentile)

Vengeance
2017-18 final rank 87/112 (78th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 107/153 (70th percentile)

Predators
2017-18 final rank 95/112 (85th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 113/153 (74th percentile)

Icemen have slipped a bit.  Was kind of surprised by that.   Other two programs not exactly spotlight material but seem to have improved. 

You can say the vengeance have improved, but if run those same numbers over 4 or 5 years instead of 2 they aren’t looking so good...

7 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Looked into this a bit.

Icemen
2017-18 final rank 33/112 (29th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 85/153 (56th percentile)

Vengeance
2017-18 final rank 87/112 (78th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 107/153 (70th percentile)

Predators
2017-18 final rank 95/112 (85th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 113/153 (74th percentile)

Icemen have slipped a bit.  Was kind of surprised by that.   Other two programs not exactly spotlight material but seem to have improved. 

You can say the vengeance have improved, but if run those same numbers over 4 or 5 years instead of 2 they aren’t looking so good...

7 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Looked into this a bit.

Icemen
2017-18 final rank 33/112 (29th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 85/153 (56th percentile)

Vengeance
2017-18 final rank 87/112 (78th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 107/153 (70th percentile)

Predators
2017-18 final rank 95/112 (85th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 113/153 (74th percentile)

Icemen have slipped a bit.  Was kind of surprised by that.   Other two programs not exactly spotlight material but seem to have improved. 

You can say the vengeance have improved, but if run those same numbers over 4 or 5 years instead of 2 they aren’t looking so good...

10 hours ago, Jack Handey said:

Looked into this a bit.

Icemen
2017-18 final rank 33/112 (29th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 85/153 (56th percentile)

Vengeance
2017-18 final rank 87/112 (78th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 107/153 (70th percentile)

Predators
2017-18 final rank 95/112 (85th percentile)
2018-19 current rank 113/153 (74th percentile)

Icemen have slipped a bit.  Was kind of surprised by that.   Other two programs not exactly spotlight material but seem to have improved. 

Did they improve or are there simply more bad teams at the U16 level?   There were 112 teams at the U15 level last season.  Traditionally more teams join the AAA level at U16.  Teams that shouldn't be considered AAA.  

Slipped a bit?  #33 to #85?  That's a  huge drop for Icemen even without the reason I just mentioned above.   

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by johnnyhockey

On 11/5/2018 at 6:42 AM, Eddie Shore said:

Either you are baiting me, or you just don't know.  Either way, I'll answer, technically Tier 1 (AAA) doesn't start until Peewee.

I really didn't know. Thanks for clarifying. 

 

More specifically, do the parents shelling out all that money know that too??????????????? 

On 11/5/2018 at 9:54 AM, johnnyhockey said:

Slipped a bit?  #33 to #85?  That's a  huge drop for Icemen even without the reason I just mentioned above. 

They lost some good players to PPE but you also can't have the same coach with the same players for their whole careers. That's a major reason those players departed.

1 hour ago, dazedandconfused said:

They lost some good players to PPE but you also can't have the same coach with the same players for their whole careers. That's a major reason those players departed.

Wow.  That's sad.  Some people just can't let go.  

On 9/3/2018 at 11:10 AM, MuckNGrind said:

Dorsey has lost all control of that organization. Tryouts were complete and utter joke!  Half of the players quit the U18 team and now it’s made up of mostly West Allegheny kids. A lot of them 2002‘s. I’ll be surprised if they win a fifth of their games. The U16 team is also very weak. The coach cut most of the good players. Why, who knows.  “Vengeance Coaches & Friends.”  The 2004 is now stealing a goalie from the renegades top bantam team. Didn’t want him at tryouts, but wants him now.  Biggest joke in Pittsburgh, the Pittsburgh Vengeance.

... ENTIRE COMMENT STRUCK BY MODERATOR ...

Edited December 5, 20187 yr by one97one00
I think he was trying to be funny, but it was just profane and rude

All the trash-talking about the 16U team and yet they beat the Icemen top team 4-2 on Saturday. Maybe, just maybe they took the right players?

On 12/17/2018 at 10:29 AM, sadday4hockey said:

All the trash-talking about the 16U team and yet they beat the Icemen top team 4-2 on Saturday. Maybe, just maybe they took the right players?

Or maybe the shots were almost tripled by iceman and they just couldn’t score on the vengeance. 

sounds like the Icemen couldn't stop pucks from hitting the back of their net either.

 

3 minutes ago, sadday4hockey said:

 

Classic

Congratulations to the Vengeance U16 team.  Well coached or their goalie was really on his game that day?  Let’s just say, the mouse luckily gets the cheese from the pesky trap sometimes.  If played, the Icemen would beat the Vengeance handedly 8/10 times.  Question, was the 4th goal an empty net?  What were the SOG?  What were penalties like?  U16 is definitely improving. What about the U18? 10 from dead last.  Puts them at 100ish on Tier II.  

I'm sure they took the right kids but defeating the 87th ranked Icemen isn't really something to hang your hat on.  

Edited December 20, 20187 yr by johnnyhockey

4 hours ago, PuckHead7 said:

Congratulations to the Vengeance U16 team.  Well coached or their goalie was really on his game that day?  Let’s just say, the mouse luckily gets the cheese from the pesky trap sometimes.  If played, the Icemen would beat the Vengeance handedly 8/10 times.  Question, was the 4th goal an empty net?  What were the SOG?  What were penalties like?  U16 is definitely improving. What about the U18? 10 from dead last.  Puts them at 100ish on Tier II.  

Don't know any details of the game. Simply pointed out that they were being trashed all year and that maybe their roster decisions weren't horrible. 8/10, I doubt it. Maybe 6. Shots on goal can be misleading and the last time I checked they count EN goals. But hey, you sure are enjoying those sour grapes aren't you? Maybe I'll watch the game today on Livebarn and get all the answers.

10 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

Don't know any details of the game. Simply pointed out that they were being trashed all year and that maybe their roster decisions weren't horrible. 8/10, I doubt it. Maybe 6. Shots on goal can be misleading and the last time I checked they count EN goals. But hey, you sure are enjoying those sour grapes aren't you? Maybe I'll watch the game today on Livebarn and get all the answers.

Assumptions!  My kid isn’t on the team.  Be my guest and waste your time on LiveBarn.  I do however know most of the families of both teams.  Vengeance got lucky and Icemen made huge mistakes.  In the end, still don’t really care.

is the 04 coach leaving next year ? 

Yes this thread is 2018, but could have been written today.  Is eight years a long enough track record to show that Vengeance isn't a serious organization?  I feel bad for the kids and families without homes because most of their AAA teams folded.  But when they made a coaching announcement a month ago and most of the National Bound ages listed TBA for a coach, probably should have raised some alarm. 

I would even go so far as to say the stench from the Tier 1 vengeance has rubbed off on the Tier 2.  There was a time not too long ago where SCIR was an attractive destination and had some success in A and AA. But I don't think that is any longer the case since rebranding to the Vengeance.

Someone tell me im wrong.

Are they the only for profit hockey organization in the region?  Even with that, Alpha is in desperate need of a deep clean.  It gets worse every year.  Literally fungus growing out of the one vending machine next to the "snack bar." You think you could use some of those profits for something.

That aside, some of the coaches that have come through and stayed there for years has shown Dorsey doesn't care one iota.  The stories you hear about some of them sounds like mental and emotional abuse.  No wonder the teams turn over like crazy and then just fold.

Edited April 13Apr 13 by Duck Bill

I'd like to know the facts - which teams folded? 

4 hours ago, Duck Bill said:

Are they the only for profit hockey organization in the region?  

I assume Preds are but someone correct me if I'm wrong.   

10 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

I assume Preds are but someone correct me if I'm wrong.   

They aren't, pretty sure they've always been a non-profit.

https://www.pittsburghpredators.com/about/about-us/82825