No development and a poorly run program.

They have a 2014 Tier 1 team.

On 4/16/2026 at 9:56 PM, Chia95 said:

18u, 2015, 2009,2012, 2013 vengeance tier 1 all folded. I’ll be surprised if they have a tier 1 program after the 2011’s are done. Half of the 12’s tried out at stars and Preds. 2013 most went to the Stars.

Do they have a 2010 team?

3 hours ago, James Gatz said:

They have a 2014 Tier 1 team.

There is no such thing. Tier 1 and 2 don't start til Bantam.

9 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

There is no such thing. Tier 1 and 2 don't start til Bantam.

But enough people showed up to the Tier 1 triple A tryouts for them to make a team. Maybe they had to cannibalize the PAHL 2014 BY roster to the point that's now a mixed year team (at birthyear prices), but how dare you say they are not Tier 1. You seem to be confusing long standing the USA Hockey tier system with the Vengeance rebranding marketing entering its fourth season.

21 hours ago, XPs said:

Did they bump the returning 13's down to Tier 2 Preds?

From what I understand a few kids left voluntarily to tryout elsewhere, but the vast majority of the team is coming back.

18 minutes ago, Duck Bill said:

From what I understand a few kids left voluntarily to tryout elsewhere, but the vast majority of the team is coming back.

Every year when the Pens Black Team goes away, it creates a ripple effect for that birth year and a lot of kids end up getting displaced. It seems like this year most of the top 2013 Pens kids went to Preds, with others heading to Esmark. Not really sure where the rest of the displaced kids landed.

1 hour ago, James Gatz said:

But enough people showed up to the Tier 1 triple A tryouts for them to make a team. Maybe they had to cannibalize the PAHL 2014 BY roster to the point that's now a mixed year team (at birthyear prices), but how dare you say they are not Tier 1. You seem to be confusing long standing the USA Hockey tier system with the Vengeance rebranding marketing entering its fourth season.

It’s a word game that @aaaahockey is playing. They don’t refer to teams as Tier 1 and Tier 2 until teams go to Nationals. You’re right though, the Preds did form a AAA 2014 team this year.

How does the Vengeance justify charging $4,500 for a PAHL team?

4 minutes ago, hockeydadx3 said:

It’s a word game that @aaaahockey is playing. They don’t refer to teams as Tier 1 and Tier 2 until teams go to Nationals. You’re right though, the Preds did form a AAA 2014 team this year.

He's not playing semantics, in this case it's more of an educational thing for younger parents. Until you get to the Tier 1 and Tier 2 National Bound designations, organizations can pretty much slap however many "A's" they want on a team and advertise it as such. I know that there's always an argument about what teams are "really AAA", but that's a different conversation.

3 minutes ago, Corsi said:

He's not playing semantics, in this case it's more of an educational thing for younger parents. Until you get to the Tier 1 and Tier 2 National Bound designations, organizations can pretty much slap however many "A's" they want on a team and advertise it as such. I know that there's always an argument about what teams are "really AAA", but that's a different conversation.

Correct!

The youth landscape uses 'AAA' very loosely as a marketing term. Many 'Independent' or 'Elite' teams play a AAA-level schedule, but if they aren't on an official 1-T roster from a sanctioned Tier 1 organization by December 31, they are technically ineligible for the USA Hockey National tournament. Everything else is just advertising.

Also, In the Mid-American District (Western PA), organizations are generally restricted in how many sanctioned Tier 1 teams they can field per age classification. So, you'll start seeing teams called "BY" instead of "AAA". Slight nuance but means a lot.

2 hours ago, James Gatz said:

But enough people showed up to the Tier 1 triple A tryouts for them to make a team. Maybe they had to cannibalize the PAHL 2014 BY roster to the point that's now a mixed year team (at birthyear prices), but how dare you say they are not Tier 1. You seem to be confusing long standing the USA Hockey tier system with the Vengeance rebranding marketing entering its fourth season.

What I don't understand with the Vengeance is the prices. Not for the AAA teams, if you are being sold on that bill of goods I get it, but the price for the PAHL teams is almost double alot of other places for the same level of competition.

I believe their tournament budget and independent games are included in tuition. Via their fb page

While Vengeance may have a 2014 team, if you had been at the program, you’d see this is not a AAA team. The only team that is there which is AAA is the 2011’s.

Also, pens black to my knowledge only had three players go to Preds the goalie and 2 skaters. The others that went from pens were cut from Gold.

Edited April 22Apr 22 by Chia95

1 hour ago, AAAAleaguestarter said:

I believe their tournament budget and independent games are included in tuition. Via their fb page

It does include all tournaments, independent games and MidAms

17 hours ago, SCIR_Coaching said:

It does include all tournaments, independent games and MidAms

I actually like this better than the never ending slush fund requests.