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Moon vs. Plum Varsity


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4 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

On another note, way to go Norwin running the score up 17-0 on Sewickley Academy. 

I saw that - what a disgrace.  SA had eight skaters and were completely outmatched as they haven't won a game all season.  It was 12-0 going into the third period.  

What does the Norwin coaching staff have to say about this?  Couldn't the HC have suggested to work on PK by having four skaters?  Or say, work on passing?

And save the butthurt snowflake bullshit.  I have no skin in this game, but class is class and the Norwin coaching staff has zero.  

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13 minutes ago, fafa fohi said:

I saw that - what a disgrace.  SA had eight skaters and were completely outmatched as they haven't won a game all season.  It was 12-0 going into the third period.  

What does the Norwin coaching staff have to say about this?  Couldn't the HC have suggested to work on PK by having four skaters?  Or say, work on passing?

And save the butthurt snowflake bullshit.  I have no skin in this game, but class is class and the Norwin coaching staff has zero.  

@Bob Loblaw Just an FYI........I am not directing the "And save the butthurt snowflake bullshit" at you.  It's meant for the trolls that will be attacking me for making the comment.

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watched the Moon Plum game. All in all, not really a physical game at all. There was a little goofy stick play from time to time, but i think that is probably pretty common at this age level. i don't watch a ton of PIHL, but high school boys aren't known for things like emotional control and decision making. still nothing that horrible, refs didn't lose control or anything like that. Plum scored late to go up 5-4. Moon pulled goalie and had some heated scrambles, didn't score. Plum coach did NOT let players off the bench to fight. the game ended, his players started to skate to their goalie and found themselves in a melee. it's hard to say if bench players participated as i wasn't tracking who was on the ice. as far as what started it, it appeared to me a Plum player gave a hefty shove after the whistle and tried to stealth away. A couple Moon players noted it and came in to shove back, which then lead to Plum players taking exception and on and on. There were some decent punches getting thrown and based on the box score game misconducts were handed out. so all in all, i think it was probably handled well as suspensions will certainly follow. it's a shame and not a good thing, but all in all, it wasn't an out of control shit show. just an unfortunate escalation. the worst part from my perspective was the dad who went on the ice and the mom's screaming at players as they left the ice. You asshats are all caught on live barn, full clear face shots with sound so you can't deny your gestures and what you said to MINORS.

one last thing, would like to point out 2 kids that i thought showed what hockey is really about. when this went down a Moon kid and Plum kid paired up. they just held each others jerseys for a bit then, they noticed a 2 on 1 without a ref and skated over to break it up. good for you guys!!!  

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1 hour ago, The King said:

This is great. So you are suggesting that simply prove to someone like you, who now is the authority on class, the head coach stops the game, facilitates a discussion with the officials and opposing coach and suggests that his team plays short handed for a whole period in order to save the opposing team from being embarrassed? This type of thinking is what continues to blow my mind and thank God I’m not in the area anymore. How about, if you can only put 8 players together, the adults decide that it might not be beneficial for the players athletically or financially to compete this season? You think Norwin enjoyed it? Do you feel that inadequate that you get this agitated by a high school hockey score? You have no background or experience that would allow you to make any judgement in those coaches. Back to the bleachers snowflake dad.

Rambo crawls out from under his rock to chime in, what a surprise. Where have you been, Biff?

Some facts:

SA has 11 skaters and two goalies rostered, not eight. They had eight skaters for last nights game.  

A coach doesn’t need to have a discussion on whom he chooses to put on the ice or how many players he puts on the ice.  And yet you are a self spoken authority of the game?  A dumb and clueless one, yes.

You no nothing of my background or experience and I don’t owe you anything in providing my detailed resume, other than 13+ years in WP hockey I feel my “opinion” is only that, an opinion based on far more experience you have. Didn’t you admit in a prior post your bambino’s never played hockey here yet you knew everything about said hockey in WP?  I know which guy you are, every org has one like you - plenty of opinions offered to the coaching staff and when challenged to lend his time to volunteer and help, the “I can’t skate” response follows. And if you do follow through, the blue jeans on the ice says it all.

As far as class goes, don’t try and speak to something you don’t possess yourself. Remember getting banned five times from this site by the administrator and you changing your user name each time so you can get back in the frey with your personal insults, only to be banned again and again and again?  How long will it be before you snap again and face another ban?

Five times, biff. Five times. You gonna go yard and try for six?  My money is on six +, so don’t let me down.  

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Regarding the cross-post of Norwin VS. Sewickley 17-0 debacle.

Over many years in this sport, I've seen scores get rolled up a few times, but never to that extent.  I can't recall one time where the coach of one of our teams (up big), didn't go to "no shots" or similar  in the third period to get out of the game.  That is in both PIHL and PAHL games, boys and girls games both.

On the other hand I have been part of games in which we were down something like 5-0 or 6-0, or 8-1 in the third and the other team kept trying to score right up to the buzzer.

The last time this happened (around 2015) it caused a brawl at the end of the game (for 13 year olds).  That game has previously been discussed on these forums.  Read that thread here

I have a very low regard for any coach (our team or otherwise) who when their team is up big, allows their team to try and score right up to the buzzer.  The only exception to that for me, is if we're in some sort of a tourney where goal difference is going to be the deciding factor for the team trying to keep scoring.

In general I think it's poor sportsmanship.

Edited by Scooby Doo
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I don’t know what you are watching there was 3 Plum players mauling a Moon Kid and 2 Plum players pounding the other Moon Kid with the rest fighting one on one.

Only 5 Kids from Moon on the ice 10 players from Plum.

Plum coaches on the Bench doing nothing. Standing there with their arms crossed.

Plum kids came off the bench went to middle of the ice and jumped in.

Why wouldn’t Plum Coaches go on the ice to stop their players I didn’t see any of that.

Officials should have been in between the players after the game moving them to their sides no where to be found.

Lost Control

No Security at Bariel parents went crazy 

Security could went out their to stop it

If you think that wasn’t bad something wrong with you.

 

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let's take these one at a time

"No Security at Bariel parents went crazy"

wrong, there was security, you can clearly see them throughout the game, but with a face off with ~1 second to go in a game that had no reason to believe there was going to be trouble, they must have headed out. after the dad went on the ice you can hear people calling for security. someone got to the ice door to block it and was clearly having words with super dad and shortly after you see another security coming up in front of the Plum parents going in between the 2 stands. 

"Security could went out their to stop it"

so you suggest a random person who may or may not have ever skated should go on the ice in street shoes with no helmet and what? fall and bust their head open? 

"Only 5 Kids from Moon on the ice 10 players from Plum."

so if these numbers are true, that means only 4 kids got off the Plum bench. it looked to me like most of them did because the game was over. so if there were only 10 out there, most of them stopped or possibly were stopped by the coaches. just because they were standing with their arms crossed doesn't mean they weren't telling kids to get their asses back to the bench. 

"Why wouldn’t Plum Coaches go on the ice to stop their players I didn’t see any of that."

again, to do what? bust their head open? maybe a ref can chime in, but i believe the coaches are supposed to stay on the bench and refs handle it one situation at a time. leading to...

"Officials should have been in between the players after the game moving them to their sides no where to be found."

the ref dropped the puck for the final face off so he was clearly in between the two sides by definition of face off. once again, this wasn't a game that was all chippy or something. this really came out of no where and escalated fast. real fast. the refs were in the middle of the big mess, where the pummeling you mention was taking place and then after the kids i mentioned skated to the 2 on 1 a ref showed up there as well. 

don't try to pin this on the refs, coaches, or security or blame them for not doing something. the responsibility is solely on the kids for this one. all in all this was a well played, coached and called game that was marred by the actions of a few after the game ended, which by the parental behavior on display, it's not hard to see why these few have serious self control issues. the box score shows fighting and game misconducts were handed out, so suspensions will be forthcoming. so i'm not sure what else you would like to be done?

"If you think that wasn’t bad something wrong with you."

i didn't say it wasn't bad, there is no place for fighting in high school hockey. i was replying to the OP's question of what happened. he heard there was a fight, so i didn't feel the need to go into a diatribe on the incorrectness of fighting in PIHL. we are aware that the fight was a bad thing. i also didn't feel the need to give a blow by blow account of the fight. it doesn't matter the specifics, all fighting is bad. if the OP was asking something along the lines of who won the fight, well that's just dumb, but i gave them the benefit of the doubt and assumed they meant what happened that CAUSES the ugliness. so  I explained what happened leading up to the altercation, which was really not much. It wasn't a chippy game, there was no dirty hit, or taunting, or anything. it wasn't a night long shit show of blown calls, it just, happened. it was then broken up and suspensions will be coming. 

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2 hours ago, PeterThePuck said:

I don’t know what you are watching there was 3 Plum players mauling a Moon Kid and 2 Plum players pounding the other Moon Kid with the rest fighting one on one.

Only 5 Kids from Moon on the ice 10 players from Plum.

Plum coaches on the Bench doing nothing. Standing there with their arms crossed.

Plum kids came off the bench went to middle of the ice and jumped in.

Why wouldn’t Plum Coaches go on the ice to stop their players I didn’t see any of that.

Officials should have been in between the players after the game moving them to their sides no where to be found.

Lost Control

No Security at Bariel parents went crazy 

Security could went out their to stop it

If you think that wasn’t bad something wrong with you.

 

@PeterThePuck I will have to agree with you to some extent... I don't know the USA Hockey rulebook though and I am not sure about coaches on the ice to break up things even though the game is over.  The security was awful / non existent until a police officer walked into the stands several minutes later after people had already started to walk out.

The penalties on the scoresheet did not accurately represent the on-ice actions. The 10 minute match penalty on Plum #14 for "holding" was a bit ridiculous as both him and 97 should have just got 5 & games. But what the heck do I know.  Singling out #14 and him having to get a hearing when there were plenty of other things going on that was worse than the 14/97 incident is a stretch.

Most HS games have a police officer on hand or a well marked armed security guard present.

The Moon dad (presumably) on the ice giving the finger to the Plum parents could have resulted in a big brawl...  I thought he was going to go after a Plum player.  The refs (and better yet rink security) should have immediately gone to get that guy off the ice. 

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2 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

Singling out #14 and him having to get a hearing when there were plenty of other things going on that was worse than the 14/97 incident is a stretch.

The match penalty is obviously not for holding. It's for removing the helmet of another player.

 

The hierarchy of responsibility for a player's actions on the ice go like this. Period.

1. Player

2. Parents

3. Coaches

4. Officials

 

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1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

The match penalty is obviously not for holding. It's for removing the helmet of another player.

 

The hierarchy of responsibility for a player's actions on the ice go like this. Period.

1. Player

2. Parents

3. Coaches

4. Officials

 

exactly, but when something happens the hierarchy of blame goes in reverse order. The officials lost control, the coaches just stood there etc... while sometimes officials do let games go unchecked it's still ultimately on the players to control themselves. 

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What a debacle!  I place all of the blame on the players.  Not the refs, not the coaches.  As for security, they/he should have been in the middle of both sets of bleachers so that if something did occur, he was in a good position to help deescalate.  They should be it that spot at the end of every game.  Agree also that coaches stay on bench, security stays in stands and parents shut their F’ing mouths and not step foot towards any player, especially on the ice.  As for the match penalty, I agree with that also.  The player ripped the other players helmet off.  My question is, why a holding penalty.  How can you call holding when the game is over.  The penalty for this particular player should have been 5 for fighting and a match for fighting.  

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This is a HS Varsity game these players are responsible for their own actions.  They made the choice now they have to deal with the consequences.  Give both teams match penalties.  Make both teams attend the hearing(s) Players and coaches.

I don't know all the rules but let the rules dictate what happens.  Fighting = whatever penalty that is.  Coming off the bench to engage in a fight = whatever penalty that is.  This is not something difficult to figure out.  

Stop with all the outrage about this.  The truth is these things happend in the past, happend in this case and will happen again.  These are competitive young men who made a mistake and temporarily went off the deep end.    This was not some disgusting random act of violence.  My guess is both teams were chirping.  Moon is having a rough season so I imagine these kids were frustrated to lose a game they were in all the way to the end.  Plum kids probably frustrated that they couldn't put Moon away.  

The dad made a mistake and didn't do anythig once he was on the ice.  He obviously came to his senses pretty quickly.  Maybe he was going to get his kid and pull him off the ice.  Maybe he was/is a parent who initially had good thoughts.  Who knows but he should not have been out there.  Moon Hockey should address this if he was from Moon.  Plum should address it if he was Plum.  The rink should stay out of it.

I would like to say security at these games in the bleachers could be better.  We all know there is always one guy who has to run his mouth and things snowball from then on.  Identify this guy and have him/her removed early will be a big help.  I've been to games where ADM referees usually kids are being yelled at by parents in the stands.  If 11-12 YR old kids can eject parents why can't adult referees eject these people?  The nut in the stands ruins the game for everyone.

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PIHL hires security for all games. What I don’t know is, if a rink has more than one sheet of ice and more than one PIHL game happening at the same time, is only one security guard needed? If so, that may be the cause of the delayed security response if they are walking between both rinks. 

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7 hours ago, Ynot02 said:

PIHL hires security for all games. What I don’t know is, if a rink has more than one sheet of ice and more than one PIHL game happening at the same time, is only one security guard needed? If so, that may be the cause of the delayed security response if they are walking between both rinks. 

That would require a discount to the home teams as they technically pay for security to be there from the fees they pay PIHL yearly.  We all know that ain’t happening.  Each game should require a single officer.

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