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Moon vs. Plum Varsity


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37 minutes ago, PuckHead7 said:

Bullshit on you!  You just agreed with my entire first paragraph.  Still doesn’t constitute being on a disciplinary report of major incidents.  Nothing happen!  No threats were made.   No players fought.  Didn’t hear of any parents fighting, swearing or yelling at the coaches.  There were 2 PIM in the entire game.  My guess, the Norwin parent were probably embarrassed by the actions of their own kids and coaches.  Again, running up the score in plain stupid.  Whining about it is stupid also.

The disciplinary report is posted under the sportsmanship initiative.  It clearly states what they define as proper sportsmanship and it’s not just yelling at refs, fighting and penalty minutes.  How about we raise the bar a little. 

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Please show where it “clearly states” that the actions in #9 fall under sportsmanship, because I can’t find it. 

I don’t think a 17-0 score is ok. But where do you draw the line? Where are the guidelines for coaches to understand what is acceptable or not? For example, Nov 25, PR2 beat Wheeling Park 13-0 in a JV game. Oct 14, Mars beat Knoch 14-0 in a middle school game, with 6 goals scored in the 3rd. Why aren’t these games being called out? Because they didn’t hit a 15 goal differential? Or only because they aren’t at the Varsity level? 

If the league isn’t looking inward and asking what in their process contributed to the poor placements that led to these lopsided scores, they should be. 

Maybe watching the game on LiveBarn would provide additional insight, but #9 doesn’t seem to warrant being on the report summary.

Edited by Ynot02
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9 hours ago, Puckthat said:

The disciplinary report is posted under the sportsmanship initiative.  It clearly states what they define as proper sportsmanship and it’s not just yelling at refs, fighting and penalty minutes.  How about we raise the bar a little. 

Again, not my MO and I agree with raising the bar.  However, I’m a little tired of our kids (all of good old USA) being sissified.  They beat us by too many! Whine, whine!  The kids are in 9-12th.  The team came to a game with 8 skaters.  They lost 17-0.  Brush it off and move on.  Which they probably did until someone brought it up on here a few days ago.

What about the West Allegheny games from last season.  They blew other teams out in half of their games.  How about Pine Richland last season, they blew out a team in four of there games.  The list goes on an on.  This season, last season and every other season since the existence of sporting games. 

@Ynot02 IMO, there should be no line drawn. Maybe a discussion happens in the next BOG meeting about good sportsmanship.  Talk about the expectations of coaches, players and fans for the unwritten “don’t blowout another team rule.”  If you are a head coach, this should already be known.

I’m not in favor of running up a score.  But, a game is a game, win some lose some.  Every game builds character and a thick skin!  Which many people lack nowadays.  What doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

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1 hour ago, PuckHead7 said:

Again, not my MO and I agree with raising the bar.  However, I’m a little tired of our kids (all of good old USA) being sissified.  They beat us by too many! Whine, whine! 

@Ynot02

Adults don't enjoy this. Not do I see what the benefit is to either team. The only lesson learned is that there are huge jerks in the world. I don't see why this has to be learned in this context.

I don't know how many lopsided games I've played in where some D bag ringer runs up the score, takes a slap shot aimed at the goalie's head in the last few minutes of a game, runs the goalie, etc. You know what usually happens in those games? Fights. Injuries. For what reason and purpose? There is none. The person is a jerk.

If adults struggle to handle this kind of situation, then why are we surprised when our kids start to behave badly when faced with the same?

It's unacceptable. It is the definition of a poor winner and an example of a really bad coach. How do you develop your kids and program with only a few players seeing ice time in a game?

It can't be justified. Anyone defending it....guess you are the D bag in my games and I'll be seeing your kid doing the same thing in a few years. 

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@Saucey The pussification of America continues.  I’m not defending their actions.  I personally think they could have shaved off 6 or 7 goals.  As a coach, I’ve been on both sides.  I’ve done the “hang back” things many, many times.  But, hey, I’m not their coach.  

Maybe going back to some old school teachings will do the world some good.  Everything is happy happy joy joy!  If you want to keep living in your own bubble, go right ahead.  Who am I (a nobody) to try to stop you?

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My prior comments were not defending running up the score. However, if the league has no guidelines around what is and isn’t acceptable, how can we expect coaches and players to act accordingly? Yes, we’d hope good sense and decency would prevail, but it simply doesn’t.

My point is you can’t put running up the score in the same bucket as the other incidents on that summary, at least not from the details provided. I was very surprised to see that incident on the report because it is not consistent with the other situations. No rules of game play were broken. Was it a classless thing to do? Absolutely. But as the examples show, it’s not an isolated incident. Coaches have different thoughts on what it means to be “crossing the line” so it needs to be better defined if it’s going to be called out and enforced. Maybe there needs to be a mercy rule where the game is called once a certain goal differential is met.

And anyone who says that a team with a low number of players for a game should just forfeit, you need to look up the financial impact of doing so. Your organization would probably just choose to play as well. 

Edited by Ynot02
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I agree that the Norwin game is not in the same category as other incidents on the list.  I also agree it starts with placement of teams.  These two teams never should have been placed in the same division.  Same with TJ (they should be playing at AA) and Pine last year.  There is not a perfect formula but 17-0 shouldn’t happen. 3 players collectively had 18 points.  That’s absolutely unsportsmanlike.  PIHL is as much at fault as the coach.

Is it the same degree as fighting or threatening a ref - no, but now we’re talking about it.  #10 on the list is a joke and I would argue the one about a photographer overhearing a private conversation is not list worthy. 

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the interesting thing is that PIHL has the 17-0 game on it's disciplinary list, while the trib writes an article applauding the amazing 18 point performance of the three players. so what's a kid to do? no thanks, i don't want interviewed by the trib and all the "benefits" that might bring, i'd rather be a good sport and make sure i don't hurt any feelings. but i guess the coach should step in keep his kids from getting player of the week? if the media is going to glorify this kind of behavior, then the kids are going to go for it. maybe PIHL should put the Trib in the disciplinary report and find out why they think this should be given positive reinforcement? but if this game degenerated into a shit show, you better believe the Trib would be writing about how terrible it was they ran up the score. common sense sportsmanship is over, the media glorifies the side show over the game. if you took someone who never heard of the NFL and showed them a commercial, they would probably ask why all the dancers wear helmets in this show? 

i don't like it, but i'm not going fault some kids for getting their names in the paper. the media is to blame for glorifying it. where's the "Seniors and leading scorers sit to avoid blowout" articles? 

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Norwin has been on the wrong end of that scenario and three years ago in 2017 when Franklin Regional was beating them 9-0 after 2 periods ......the top two lines of FR spent the 3rd period on the bench. Some people do it correctly and some people don't. In fact, if you go back and look at it FR did it with many teams that year.  

http://pihl_hs.wttstats.pointstreak.com/players/players-team-schedule.html?teamid=630517&seasonid=16217

 

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From the East:

- 10 goal rule in ICSHL.  If the goal differential is 10 at any point after the end of the 2nd period, game ends

- Atlantic district procedure for unruly fans is a warning to both benches.  Teams have to send AC to monitor parents.  If unruly actions persist, entire stands are cleared by rink personnel.

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13 hours ago, carroll81 said:

From the East:

- 10 goal rule in ICSHL.  If the goal differential is 10 at any point after the end of the 2nd period, game ends

- Atlantic district procedure for unruly fans is a warning to both benches.  Teams have to send AC to monitor parents.  If unruly actions persist, entire stands are cleared by rink personnel.

Honestly these both seem like commonsense provisions in the rules.

On the other hand, in a sane world there'd be no need for a rule about running up the score to that extent. Everyone knows and remembers who the classless coaches and programs are. The rest of us try to impart sportsmanship and respect into our players, and lead by example.

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This morphed thread is probably the healthiest one on this site.  Instead of bickering and name calling, you can actually talk about sportsmanship and play.  Go figure.

I'm partly with @nemesis8679.

I’m not sure that I’m ok with not putting goals on the board.  Maybe with 12u and younger, 13u and older, put them up. It is what it is and that’s life.  I want my kid to feel disappointment.  Hopefully, the disappointment will make them work harder to reach their goal.  I get it, not many parents are like me nowadays.  Most want to shelter their kids.  Sorry, not here.

What does stopping the game after two periods teach a player/team?  This one just baffles me.  Why do we want to teach our kids to “throw in the towel?”  Is a rule telling you to give up a good rule?  Play the game to the end, use a running clock in the third.  Hopefully the winning teams players are coached well and they let up a bit.  If not, again, that’s life.

I like the fan/spectator rule though.  Ref has an ongoing issue, send an assistant coach to handle them.  Not optimal.  But it probably gets the job done.  Better yet, don’t drop the puck until said people leave the area.

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7 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Shouldn't be game over. That's even more embarrassing. Just don't put it on the board. 

Or, something like if you go up 10 and you're the coach, don't be an asshole. Pretty simple. 

"Or, something like if you go up 10 and you're the coach, don't be an asshole. Pretty simple."

Quote of the year right there..........

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From the latest PIHL email. Some good stories to be shared.
 
Some uplifting stories related to the value of sportsmanship and the spirit of interscholastic sports from the past week in the PIHL:
  • After making 51 saves in a 7-1 loss to Morgantown, McDowell Varsity goaltender gave a high-five to every player of both teams as they exited the ice after the game!
  • A fundraiser by Canon-McMillan generated $567 for the "Jack's True Grit" scholarship fund, in memory of Cathedral Prep player Jack Shoenig!
  • West Allegheny and Montour participated in National Wreaths Across America Day on Saturday by laying wreaths on tombstones at the National Cemetery of the Alleghenies!
  • Pine-Richland conducted a "Share the Warmth" drive last week to collect items to donate to the Light of Life Rescue Mission on the North Side of Pittsburgh.  The many blankets, socks, hats, gloves, and thermal layers gathered through the drive will be delivered by the PR players to the shelter next week to help the homeless during the cold winter months
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32 minutes ago, Mysonisagoalie said:
From the latest PIHL email. Some good stories to be shared.
 
Some uplifting stories related to the value of sportsmanship and the spirit of interscholastic sports from the past week in the PIHL:
  • After making 51 saves in a 7-1 loss to Morgantown, McDowell Varsity goaltender gave a high-five to every player of both teams as they exited the ice after the game!

But - was 7-1 too high running up the score?  ?

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19 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

But - was 7-1 too high running up the score?  ?

You know, the couple of you pretending that you don't understand this....you do. The poster who said 'don't be an a$#hole' summed it up. If there was no apparent outcry about it, I am guessing that the foot was taken off the gas at some point. 

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