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Ppe 18u prep?


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1 hour ago, hockeydeke said:

I did a little research.  Here is what I found.

rostered 21

active roster 20 (one player has not played in a single game)

number of active rostered players in Excel is 4.

that is 20%...a far cry from the “over half” stated.

There is only one Esmark player on the team and that player is not in Excel.

So...might want to check your own research.  In mine I discovered it was 4 instead of the 3.

Regardless, there is no basis for the argument that NC would not exist if it were not for Excel...certainly on the false notion that “over half” are Excel.

 

Either you can’t read. Or you’re just not ah forget it. It’s obvious your kid goes to NC. If I could name the names I would. 

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15 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Either you can’t read. Or you’re just not ah forget it. It’s obvious your kid goes to NC. If I could name the names I would. 

Well that might mean that I have access to some actual facts.  But don’t take my word for it.  You said there were TWO 18U Esmark players on NC.  I said there was one.  Anyone can go look at the roster of BOTH teams and see that there is only ONE as I said.

Facts are stubborn things.

As for the 4 Excel kids...that can easily be confirmed by anyone by asking someone within the program.  It’s not hard.

Edited by hockeydeke
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1 hour ago, hockeydeke said:

Well that might mean that I have access to some actual facts.  But don’t take my word for it.  You said there were TWO 18U Esmark players on NC.  I said there was one.  Anyone can go look at the roster of BOTH teams and see that there is only ONE as I said.

Facts are stubborn things.

As for the 4 Excel kids...that can easily be confirmed by anyone by asking someone within the program.  It’s not hard.

Go use EP to look at your teams. You are correct about one thing, the second esmark 18u kid quit esmark. Your top 6 scorers are all on that team because they tried to make the pens. I personally know some of these families. 
 

I’ll always call it “CW North Catholic”. Funny how fast that CW came off the sign and the story went away in two days. 
 

your kid didn’t make PPE or ESMARK. Go sit in the corner and make up more excuses how “pure” the CWNC varsity team is. 

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33 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Go use EP to look at your teams. You are correct about one thing, the second esmark 18u kid quit esmark. Your top 6 scorers are all on that team because they tried to make the pens. I personally know some of these families. 
 

I’ll always call it “CW North Catholic”. Funny how fast that CW came off the sign and the story went away in two days. 
 

your kid didn’t make PPE or ESMARK. Go sit in the corner and make up more excuses how “pure” the CWNC varsity team is. 

So you were faced with the demonstration that your “facts” were wrong and your rebuttal is a personal attack?   LOL....
 

If you want to debate what the impact of the Excel Program is on NC, then let’s do so with the actual facts about who plays on what.  You argued that NC hockey wouldn’t exist without the EXCEL program because “over half” of the NC varsity players are in the Excel program.

That is incorrect...the number is four....not 11+ it would take to be “over half”.

so....is it reasonable then to suggest that NC Varsity hockey would not exist because 4 players are on Excel?

Probably not.

You are obviously not a fan of North Catholic for whatever reason...so not sure why any of this matters to you anyways.

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7 minutes ago, hockeydeke said:

So you were faced with the demonstration that your “facts” were wrong and your rebuttal is a personal attack?   LOL....
 

If you want to debate what the impact of the Excel Program is on NC, then let’s do so with the actual facts about who plays on what.  You argued that NC hockey wouldn’t exist without the EXCEL program because “over half” of the NC varsity players are in the Excel program.

That is incorrect...the number is four....not 11+ it would take to be “over half”.

so....is it reasonable then to suggest that NC Varsity hockey would not exist because 4 players are on Excel?

Probably not.

You are obviously not a fan of North Catholic for whatever reason...so not sure why any of this matters to you anyways.

Smh. It’s more than 4, I admitted it’s also one esmark 18u kid not 2, it was two until the kid left esmark. Yes CWNC would not have a varsity team of it wasn’t for excel, that’s a fact. 

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Just now, Danner27 said:

Smh. It’s more than 4, I admitted it’s also one esmark 18u kid not 2, it was two until the kid left esmark. Yes CWNC would not have a varsity team of it wasn’t for excel, that’s a fact. 

Well anyone who is interested in the facts could see that there are only 4 players of the 20 team roster that are Excel by simply asking someone in the program...when actual names could be used.

would the program fold without those 4??  Lol...no.

would they still be 11-1?  Probably not...but then that is a separate discussion about AAA/AA players on any high school team.

TJ being the poster child for that question in “A”.

 

 

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1 hour ago, hockeydeke said:

Well anyone who is interested in the facts could see that there are only 4 players of the 20 team roster that are Excel by simply asking someone in the program...when actual names could be used.

would the program fold without those 4??  Lol...no.

would they still be 11-1?  Probably not...but then that is a separate discussion about AAA/AA players on any high school team.

TJ being the poster child for that question in “A”.

 

 

You just don’t get it, kids are there because of excel and pens. 

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9 hours ago, Danner27 said:

Hate to bust some bubbles, half of the NC varsity team are excel kids. I personally know three of them. NC doesn’t have enough kids that are just NC student’s to field a varsity team. 
 

also, the statement - if any other school was close to the upmc rink, that would be the school involved with excel is completely wrong. Moorehouse is an alum of NC. That rink was suppose to be built down by camp horn, moorehouse worked with butler county on tax breaks and NC to have the rink built where it is. Who’s paying for the new exit being built off 79 that goes right to rink ? It’s not the state nor the Penguins. It’s the cranberry tax payers. 

You ignored the any other school statement you made. No answer for this ?

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31 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

You just don’t get it, kids are there because of excel and pens. 

The facts don’t support that conclusion given the small number of HS players that have been in Excel since the HS program was brought back.  It seems the only way that argument can get made is by making up numbers that don’t bear any relationship to reality. 

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11 minutes ago, The King said:

The point being made is that players joined Excel at its inception and following years in hopes of locking down a PPE spot. They were cut by PPE, left Excel HOWEVER, remained at North Catholic. This is why NC would even entertain a scenario like this. Possible added enrollment. So Excel brought them to the school, NC varsity hockey gave them a home when the PPE hopes were dashed. NC will always be saddled with most of the liability here. They embraced a program where they accepted the enrollments of students based on an athletic program. HOWEVER, this program is outside of the school’s curriculum and cannot be seen as recruitment or bias. Now, let’s say 10 players entering their Freshman year joined Excel for whatever reason. 10 players attend school for 8 months and train half the day. 7 of these players are cut by PPE in April. Let’s then say 3 leave NC before their Sophmore year. 4 stay and become NC hockey players. Now do this every year and you have quite the PIHL program going. 
 

I’ll ask again, how many players in NC’s team attended Excel in the past? You knew pretty quickly about the 4 that do so I’m sure you can figure out who the others are.

Bingo!

This CWNC dad still ignoring the “any other school” statement he made. 

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37 minutes ago, The King said:

The point being made is that players joined Excel at its inception and following years in hopes of locking down a PPE spot. They were cut by PPE, left Excel HOWEVER, remained at North Catholic. This is why NC would even entertain a scenario like this. Possible added enrollment. So Excel brought them to the school, NC varsity hockey gave them a home when the PPE hopes were dashed. NC will always be saddled with most of the liability here. They embraced a program where they accepted the enrollments of students based on an athletic program. HOWEVER, this program is outside of the school’s curriculum and cannot be seen as recruitment or bias. Now, let’s say 10 players entering their Freshman year joined Excel for whatever reason. 10 players attend school for 8 months and train half the day. 7 of these players are cut by PPE in April. Let’s then say 3 leave NC before their Sophmore year. 4 stay and become NC hockey players. Now do this every year and you have quite the PIHL program going. 
 

I’ll ask again, how many players in NC’s team attended Excel in the past? You knew pretty quickly about the 4 that do so I’m sure you can figure out who the others are.

The numbers for this year were easy to find out.  Someone would have to check but the three years of JV had no more that 1 or 2 players maybe 3 at most on the JV team from Excel.  Which makes sense since I am not sure a borderline PPE player would be doing JV.

If you are referring to current NC players...I don’t think there are any that are former Excel program players beyond the ones that are in the program this year and were last year.  But even it is one or two it wouldn’t really matter.

People seem to be under the impression that Excel and the Varsity team are so intertwined or have been.  There is nothing to suggest that it is...beyond the small number of players that have done both.

If this is such a concern or question there are people out there in the program one could ask directly.

But this particular discussion was started with the assertion that “over half” of the Varsity team was Excel...so therefore the Varsity Team would not exist without Excel.

That is demonstrably false.

It will be interesting to see if PPE allows the U18 Prep players to play high school...which they don’t for all the other teams.

Edited by hockeydeke
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10 hours ago, hockeydeke said:

The numbers for this year were easy to find out.  Someone would have to check but the three years of JV had no more that 1 or 2 players maybe 3 at most on the JV team from Excel.  Which makes sense since I am not sure a borderline PPE player would be doing JV.

If you are referring to current NC players...I don’t think there are any that are former Excel program players beyond the ones that are in the program this year and were last year.  But even it is one or two it wouldn’t really matter.

People seem to be under the impression that Excel and the Varsity team are so intertwined or have been.  There is nothing to suggest that it is...beyond the small number of players that have done both.

If this is such a concern or question there are people out there in the program one could ask directly.

But this particular discussion was started with the assertion that “over half” of the Varsity team was Excel...so therefore the Varsity Team would not exist without Excel.

That is demonstrably false.

It will be interesting to see if PPE allows the U18 Prep players to play high school...which they don’t for all the other teams.

I can tell you 3 kids I know who went to excel and quit but still goto cwnc and play on your varsity team. So the 4 current and 3 former we are up to 7 now. Your top 6 in points are made up from 5 of these kids. Yes there are many kids that goto excel and don’t play varsity at cwnc. cwnc doesn’t have a varsity hockey team if not for excel / ppe. 
 

“it will be interesting to see if PPE allows the U18 prep plays to play hs” this statement has made me not even want to waste my time debating with you, you really can’t be this stupid ? 

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I can tell you 3 kids I know who went to excel and quit but still goto cwnc and play on your varsity team. So the 4 current and 3 former we are up to 7 now. Your top 6 in points are made up from 5 of these kids. Yes there are many kids that goto excel and don’t play varsity at cwnc. cwnc doesn’t have a varsity hockey team if not for excel / ppe. 
 

“it will be interesting to see if PPE allows the U18 prep plays to play hs” this statement has made me not even want to waste my time debating with you, you really can’t be this stupid ? 

So you have gone from “over half on the Varsity team are Excel” and are now down to “7”, three of which you now say are not in Excel any more.

you had “2 Esmark players one of which was on Excel” and then when the actual data was provided had to acknowledge it was only one...(who btw is not on Excel).

so now you are reverting to “former” Excel players.

tell you what ... PM the names.

...problem is they don’t exist.

As for the question about u18 prep players...not sure what you think is particularly “stupid” about the question...or was the personal attack all you were interested in?   Everyone knows that PPE began forbidding their players to play HS hockey unlike the other AAA teams that do.  The U18 Prep team appears to be an attempt to keep players in the PPE program.  Another way to do that is to allow PIHL play.  So it is certainly reasonable to ask if they might change their rule for that team.

 

Edited by hockeydeke
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Personally, I don’t think that they should allow the prep team players to play high school. Excel is on the ice and in the gym four days a week. The prep team will probably practice two/three days a week and be in the gym two days a week. They are also slated to play 50 games. Where is the time for schoolwork and downtime?

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

the prep team will be on the ice 5 days a week. Do you not understand prep ? Honestly how dumb are you people ? No wonder why it’s so easy for people to suck money out of parents around here. 
 

Since apparently I’m a dumb ass, please explain their schedule to me.

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1 hour ago, RegDunlop7 said:

That's because the other "AAA" teams aren't really AAA (besides Esmark).

 

I don't think any of the players on the 18U Prep team will waste their time playing for NC's Varsity team. That would essentially be like NHL players willingly playing full NHL and AHL schedules at the same time.

So if we look then at only the “real” AAA teams, as you say...one allows players to play HS and the other doesn’t.  So by that example it is half ;-).

Now...Esmark U18 has FIVE players who play HS...none of them in PIHL AAA.   So assuming Esmark is “real” AAA and would likely be competitive with U18 Prep...it’s hard to say that, if allowed, they wouldn’t play because of the lower level of hockey....those 5 Esmark don’t seem to have an issue playing in PIHL A and AA.

And when you take in the proximity of the rink to the school and that it is the same rink for both Prep and NC Varsity....it is not hard to imagine that some of the Prep players would want to play for their HS if allowed.

There is a reason PPE stopped allowing it...too many wanted to do it.

If PPE removes the restriction it is not hard to imagine that more than 1 or 2 will want to and that is a majority of a line.

Edited by hockeydeke
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18 hours ago, BeaverFalls said:

Funny. All this just to have your kid pay to play club hockey for Slippery Rock. 

And what's wrong with playing for Slippery Rock or Pitt or RMU or IUP or other top 30 ACHA Programs ? 

Last time I checked playing Division III does not include paying A LOT of money just to go to school including hockey 

Edited by Pa Hockey
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division III is great. these comments are made by jealous people whose kids have never made the team. if your kid at 15 or 16 is good enough to maybe make it to tier i or ii juniors or play in college, and has the passion and determination, then pens elite is the ONLY place to play around here. period. and yes that means some sacrifices have to be made. 

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