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Ppe 18u prep?


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king if we all bring up moot issues and can’t follow your intellect - why are you on here so much? you tell everyone to get off the board and do something. why don’t you??? please.  you sure are on her A LOT. At least I’m here because I have a kid involved. You don’t so leave. 

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26 minutes ago, The King said:

There wasn’t any misinformation that I can see. Just an inability for many to understand what the root of the issues are

Well...let’s review:


Over half the NC Varsity team is in Excel Academy?   FALSE (it’s 4)

Two play on Esmark?  FALSE (only one)

One of the “two” Esmark players is in Excel?  FALSE (the only Esmark player is not in EXCEL).

Lets also deal with the “foreign” statements about Kazakhstan and Canada.  FALSE 

There is one foreign student from Kazakhstan.  There is no player from Canada.  There was one a few years ago in JV.

So...the poster came out of the gate with those assertions to argue a point.  And those assertions were not factual.

Edited by hockeydeke
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3 hours ago, hockeydeke said:

happen organically. What I don’t get is, why all of you filled 7 pages on this thread asking repetitive questions when @Danner27and myself

you are the one filling up page after page on this site. please ... count how many posts u have made on this thread alone. it’s comical. and only you would think someone is pretending to be an insider. you seem to be a jealous wannabe. you think we and everything pittsburgh hockey is so stupid yet you are on here going on and on about the same things. none of my questions dealt with a second 18 team. i’m very curious about the new prep team and trying to gain insight. we all are yet you just rant and rave. we know about the money, usa hockey and the tiers. you need to find a new hobby - especially if you have no kid playing 16u hockey at ppe. and you don’t.  

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18 minutes ago, g8586 said:

you are the one filling up page after page on this site. please ... count how many posts u have made on this thread alone. it’s comical. and only you would think someone is pretending to be an insider. you seem to be a jealous wannabe. you think we and everything pittsburgh hockey is so stupid yet you are on here going on and on about the same things. none of my questions dealt with a second 18 team. i’m very curious about the new prep team and trying to gain insight. we all are yet you just rant and rave. we know about the money, usa hockey and the tiers. you need to find a new hobby - especially if you have no kid playing 16u hockey at ppe. and you don’t.  

That’s not my quote you are showing...it was a statement I was responding to...so I assume all that was not directed at me ?

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8 minutes ago, The King said:

Oh I see your still going to die on that hill. Honestly if you can’t see that what he was saying is that NC was building off of former Excel players, there’s no hope.

I don’t mind debating the NC program...but when someone needs to manufacture “facts” to do so...it would suggest their argument is rather weak to begin with.

And the ACTUAL facts do not support his conclusion...so he should have informed himself to begin with.

Edited by hockeydeke
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1 hour ago, The King said:

You don’t get it. @OrrWhat rehashed again what differentiates the teams. The reasons why it will be attractive are way beyond what you seem to be able to grasp. Even though you say you’re an insider. They didn’t care about this season at 18u because they knew what was going to happen in the future. They will own the Tier 1 level in Pittsburgh. 

These people don’t understand the multiple hockey path’s. Post grad, the list goes on. I’m pretty sure you and myself have spelled it out very clear. I can’t be bothered to try and educate anymore. 

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1 hour ago, hockeydeke said:

Well...let’s review:


Over half the NC Varsity team is in Excel Academy?   FALSE (it’s 4)

Two play on Esmark?  FALSE (only one)

One of the “two” Esmark players is in Excel?  FALSE (the only Esmark player is not in EXCEL).

Lets also deal with the “foreign” statements about Kazakhstan and Canada.  FALSE 

There is one foreign student from Kazakhstan.  There is no player from Canada.  There was one a few years ago in JV.

So...the poster came out of the gate with those assertions to argue a point.  And those assertions were not factual.

Still on this ? As king mentioned above. I was showing how NC varsity was built. Off the top of my head I figured it was half the NC team Due to the players I know, it turned out to be 7 out of 18 skaters. That’s pretty darn close, i didn’t realize esmark 18u #2 kid left esmark half way into the season (that would be 8 ) NC varsity does have a kazastan kid, he came here to try and make the pens, he didn’t now he’s on that awful 16u icemen team but still hoping for the gold helmet next year. The Canadian kid is on a esmark midget team. When I ask a few coaches where the kid is, I was told he decided to drop out of the NC varsity tryout because the level of play was “bad”. had he stayed that would make 9 players or 50% of the 18 skaters roster.

 

face the FACT, NC varsity would not exist if it wasn’t for excel / PPE. 

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8 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

I think it's pretty jive to expect someone to attend a religious school to play hockey. 

Post grad, the families and players don’t care. It’s just about the hockey development and getting scouted when the player is out of HS. 

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8 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

At 18U, some players are aware that there really is no next level for them other than ACHA or D3. There is something to be said for their insight and also for the fact maybe being a "grinder" on the better team is more fun because they win more games. Even at the U16 level at PPE, the 3rd and 4th liners are not getting near as much scout attention as the top 6 and if you really believe that THEY are rolling 4 lines....... you're sadly mistaken.

 

Go to elite prospects. Look up the midget teams. Notice 4-5 kids on each team have good stats then everyone else just drops off to hell. That’s ICETIME. You would be happy with your kid getting 2-3 shifts the first period, 1-2 in the second and possible zero in the 3rd ? Esmark plays their top 6. They get the pp & pk time to boot. Lines 3 & 4 don’t play much even if the esmark team is blowing someone out they still run that top 6 like crazy to pad the player’s  stats. It’s the way they always have been. They are successful, somehow they manage to keep kids that are pretty darn good paying to play on the 3rd and 4th line. On PPE my kid bounced between the 3rd & 4th line. He took a regular shift unless it was a very close game under 5 minutes to play. 

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12 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

Still on this ? As king mentioned above. I was showing how NC varsity was built. Off the top of my head I figured it was half the NC team Due to the players I know, it turned out to be 7 out of 18 skaters. That’s pretty darn close, i didn’t realize esmark 18u #2 kid left esmark half way into the season (that would be 8 ) NC varsity does have a kazastan kid, he came here to try and make the pens, he didn’t now he’s on that awful 16u icemen team but still hoping for the gold helmet next year. The Canadian kid is on a esmark midget team. When I ask a few coaches where the kid is, I was told he decided to drop out of the NC varsity tryout because the level of play was “bad”. had he stayed that would make 9 players or 50% of the 18 skaters roster.

 

face the FACT, NC varsity would not exist if it wasn’t for excel / PPE. 

I asked you to send me the names of these other 3 that were in Excel on the team but are no longer.  You didn’t.  Because they don’t exist.

the three years of JV Program NEVER had more than a few kids in Excel.  The current number is 4 and they aren’t the top four players on the team.  
 

the NC program was re-establish BEFORE Excel came into existence.

so if someone wants to argue that despite all that the NC Varsity team would not exist without Excel the are certainly entitled to do so.

but even without the current 4 there would very likely still be a Varsity team...albeit not 11-1.

but each can judge those numbers themselves.

my issue was that a bunch of stats were thrown out to support your conclusion and they were not factual.

 

Edited by hockeydeke
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4 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

I think it's pretty jive to expect someone to attend a religious school to play hockey. 

My point exactly.  I think it’s very strange that this PPE team that is not associated with the Catholic high school that all of the team players are made to attend is even being proposed by people so high up in the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins Organization.  This team could potentially be the best 18U team in Pgh, one of the most scouted in Pgh and the absolute best players may not even have a chance to be on the team.  

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12 hours ago, OrrWhat said:

My point exactly.  I think it’s very strange that this PPE team that is not associated with the Catholic high school that all of the team players are made to attend is even being proposed by people so high up in the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins Organization.  This team could potentially be the best 18U team in Pgh, one of the most scouted in Pgh and the absolute best players may not even have a chance to be on the team.  

I would guarantee that not nearly all the best players would be on a team like that, because of financial considerations, being told where you must attend school, etc. Just consider how many great players never even got to that level to even consider this option because of finances or level of  time commitment. 

Also, if you were moving from Kazakhstan, Canada, Russia, or wherever just to play hockey- why relocate to Pittsburgh to do it? With all the other options available? Just seems weird to me. And for what? A 1/10 of one percent chance you'll ever even see a shift in the NHL, let alone a career? 

Edited by nemesis8679
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1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

I would guarantee that not nearly all the best players would be on a team like that, because of financial considerations, being told where you must attend school, etc. Just consider how many great players never even got to that level to even consider this option because of finances or level of  time commitment. 

Also, if you were moving from Kazakhstan, Canada, Russia, or wherever just to play hockey- why relocate to Pittsburgh to do it? With all the other options available? Just seems weird to me. And for what? A 1/10 of one percent chance you'll ever even see a shift in the NHL, let alone a career? 

@nemesis8679 while I agree with you regarding your second paragraph, if we have learned anything from this message board, it has to include the realization that there are a very large number of people who are irrationally concerned with their player "getting the best opportunities" and playing a the highest possible level, rather than simply letting their player enjoy playing.

Now, regarding the question posed there, I assume that you move here from Kazakhstan because you haven't been given a better shot with anything really advanced over there - I haven't the foggiest notion what PPE-level opportunities exist in Kazakhstan, though obviously there's lots of high level hockey in Europe - and the PPE can offer you financial help courtesy of all the lower level players they accept solely to generate revenue for this specific purpose. My guess is that there is a certain type of person who views such an opportunity in the US as superior to one in say, Sweden, for obvious (if somewhat fantastical for the simple reason of the very long odds) reasons. It may be that in Boston they're not looking for recruits in Kazakhstan because their hockey culture is so much more advanced than that of Pittsburgh.

Lord knows. Seems like a serious ordeal to go through for such a small chance of the huge paycheck to me.

Edited by Lifelongbender
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2 hours ago, The King said:

Serious question- why is a huge paycheck the only reason why someone would play for PPE? I think that it’s become the assumption in WPA that the hockey player contingent is slotted in 2 specific genomes. 1 being the dream chasers and 2 being the fun chasers. While you can come close to categorizing parents that way, when did competitiveness and training become such a negative aspect of youth development? I’ll agree that 90% of the posters on this board have kids who gave up or never wanted to play a sport in a competitive environment. I realize this means “winning record”, “playing your level” or “no blowouts” to some. To the rest of the athletic world it means (among other things)- trying out for a team (not having everyone make the team), training on and off the ice in order to maximize your athletic abilities and worth to the team, watching video and studying the game, accepting and executing your given role on the team and enjoying being a piece of a larger puzzle. Again, there are other factors but the point is, playing any level for any reason is not wrong. The recreational player deserves their outlet as much as the competitive player and vice versa. Where the problems lie are the folks that exploit the masses for monetary gain. This is not simply based on a teams record or the Tier they play. There are A Major teams that provide zero value to the players and whose only redeemable quality is the jersey they get for their fees. At least PPE trains every single player that comes through their ranks. Whether they get the opportunities they’re looking for or not. There are other programs at all levels that take pride in providing value. If teams are not, put the onus on coaches that over value their abilities or don’t care and the organizations that allow them. PPE leadership may very well be getting rich off of this. The fact remains, they’ve got the Tier 1 level locked up. 

This is a fair question, @The King. I was speculating about why a kid would come so far, to a place where they speak a different language, when opportunities much closer to home exist in abundance (and there are very good opportunities for development in Europe). This might have been somewhat uncharitable, but that wasn't my intent. Frankly, I don't have the issues with PPE that many folks who regularly post here seem to have.

As for the rest of your post, I generally agree with what you said.

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 12:53 PM, twoboys said:

I don't get it either.  It is almost like they are forming the team for the benefit of North Catholic.  Trying to give those attending NC/Excel a reason to stay at North Catholic after U16.  Or maybe if they get pushed off the team after U15 they can stay at North Catholic and play prep.

There will NOT be a 18U PPE and Prep team!  Just a prep PPE team...

 

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 1:03 PM, RegDunlop7 said:

Agree with you 100%. The only point I'll make is that this model still seems like a potential money grab since the Pens Elite will field both 18U Prep and 18U Midget teams. The Prep team will pretty much play the same schedule as the Midget team -- which pushes the Midget team towards faux-AAA territory -- so the Pens will essentially make money off both teams in addition to Excel, NC, etc. Smart business move for sure, but seems like a money grab to field two 18U teams.

Not sure it's a money grab or not.  I can tell you without a doubt, That the Prep Team will be the PPE 18U team.  So there will NOT be two teams.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2020 at 8:39 PM, PuckHead7 said:

Don’t forget, you have to attend NC to be able to be on the PPE Prep team.  Esmark will still be a very good team, but probably number 2 in Pgh.  Also, high end scouts attend Pens and Esmark games.  All this crap about them not seeing Esmark players is untrue.  Why in the hell would they only flock to PPE when PPE doesn’t have all of the best players in Pgh. ?

This is not true, the kids that are currently playing on in the organization, will be grandfathered in....

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On ‎1‎/‎30‎/‎2020 at 6:24 PM, OrrWhat said:

The new “Prep” team will be owned and operated by the Pittsburgh Penguins Elite. They are to wear Black and Gold uniforms with the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins logo on the chest, not red and white uniforms like North Catholic HS as they are not a team run by or associated with North Catholic High School.  The stipulations to be on said team are to, 1) attend North Catholic High School 2) attend Excel Academy (a program that exists because of NCHS.)  I think that we can all agree that the above statements are, from what we can read, 100% fact.

Now to the point of this post.  How can a private 501(c)(3) corporation, backed back the NHL Pittsburgh Penguins, require all players from said team to attend a Catholic high school.  I’m not a attorney, but this seems to open up a huge can of worms.

You do not have to attend NC, and if your on the Prep team, you will not be part of Excel Hockey Academy!

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42 minutes ago, Hockey1 said:

You do not have to attend NC

If this information is actually factual, then it is NOT A PREP TEAM. By definition, a Prep team IS comprised of players that all attend the school for which the team is NAMED.

If this is the case, why don't they just call it Morehouse Academy at UPMC and they can all just sit around and make it rain?

Even the pioneers at this charade, Selects Academy at South Kent used the school name. North Catholic must be desperate for money.

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PITTSBURGH'S NEW 18U PREP TEAM

Pittsburgh’s NEW 18U Prep team fills a gap in the development model by combining a superior education, world-class hockey training, elite competition and college/junior exposure -- all based at the best practice facility in the National Hockey League. Pittsburgh Penguins Elite 18U Prep players will attend one of the premier private high schools in Pennsylvania while practicing four days a week at the UPMC Lemieux Sports Complex and playing a 55-game schedule against some of the top prep and AAA teams in the country. Our players have access to the same doctors as the NHL Penguins, and our focus on individual skill development and off-ice performance training makes 18U Prep a great alternative to starting junior hockey too early!

DAN MAYES NAMED HEAD COACH

HOCKEY TRAINING

  • On-ice training with Pittsburgh Penguins’ skill development and skating coaches
  • Off-ice strength and conditioning with world-class professionals

COMPETITION

  • Competitive schedule featuring the top AAA and Prep School teams as well as showcase tournaments in the U.S.
  • Exposure to college and pro scouts/recruiters

ACADEMICS

  • Traditional private high school setting at North Catholic High School
  • Superior academic programs with honors and AP level courses
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