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MT Lebo - AAA 15u?


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45 minutes ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Add to the mix the “SHAHA invite-only 2005 AAA Pens Elite Black need somewhere to get that extra A” forming for 15U. 

so at the 2005 BY, a region that has:

the lowest-ranked Pen Elite Gold team of any team in the organization. They were 1-15-3 vs USA teams ranked in the top 15   

lowest ranked Pens Elite Black team of any Black team in the organization. Played only 17 games vs teams ranked ahead of them and went 6-9-2   Played 1 game vs teams in top 35.   Loaded schedule with 8 games vs AA teams (2-2-4) and AAA teams ranked in very bottom  

no AA team ranked higher than 23 (whatever PA team makes it to Nationals will NOT advance out of pool play, but will get a lovely weekend in scenic Kalamazoo!)

AAA Preds team that should have always stayed AA and would have had a chance to win Nationals 

two Independent teams (Icemen and Vipers) that should be playing PAHL 

...is now going to try to have 4, 5, and maybe even 6 2005 AAA teams!  
 

if there was just Pens Elite U15 and no other AAA options, western PA (PAHL) would have a competitive, no-need-to-travel all over the country, AA U15 Division that would be a great fit for around 100 hockey players.  This is probably true of other BYs as well. 

Remember, the Tier 1 designation means something only at the end of the season and it’s for the Mid Am playdowns, where 1 team will advance to Nationals, unless there is a at-large (which will never happen from Mid Am)

 No, and I mean absolutely no, scouts are going to watch any games between “AAA” teams ranked outside of the top 20.  They don’t even attend the games or events where those teams play. 
 

That extra A is literally for the purpose of the parent being able to say to their friends, co-workers, and other hockey parents at local rinks: “my kid plays triple A hockey”, or years later, “my kid PLAYED triple A hockey”.  Think of that in the grand scheme of life

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In all honesty, if the predators could get their act together western pa has enough talent when players get to midget to support 3 real tier 1 teams.  With that said, I feel there is no need to play tier 1 before the age of 13. 

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16 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Add to the mix the “SHAHA invite-only 2005 AAA Pens Elite Black need somewhere to get that extra A” forming for 15U. 

so at the 2005 BY, a region that has:

the lowest-ranked Pen Elite Gold team of any team in the organization. They were 1-15-3 vs USA teams ranked in the top 15   

lowest ranked Pens Elite Black team of any Black team in the organization. Played only 17 games vs teams ranked ahead of them and went 6-9-2   Played 1 game vs teams in top 35.   Loaded schedule with 8 games vs AA teams (2-2-4) and AAA teams ranked in very bottom  

no AA team ranked higher than 23 (whatever PA team makes it to Nationals will NOT advance out of pool play, but will get a lovely weekend in scenic Kalamazoo!)

AAA Preds team that should have always stayed AA and would have had a chance to win Nationals 

two Independent teams (Icemen and Vipers) that should be playing PAHL 

...is now going to try to have 4, 5, and maybe even 6 2005 AAA teams!  
 

if there was just Pens Elite U15 and no other AAA options, western PA (PAHL) would have a competitive, no-need-to-travel all over the country, AA U15 Division that would be a great fit for around 100 hockey players.  This is probably true of other BYs as well. 

Remember, the Tier 1 designation means something only at the end of the season and it’s for the Mid Am playdowns, where 1 team will advance to Nationals, unless there is a at-large (which will never happen from Mid Am)

 No, and I mean absolutely no, scouts are going to watch any games between “AAA” teams ranked outside of the top 20.  They don’t even attend the games or events where those teams play. 
 

That extra A is literally for the purpose of the parent being able to say to their friends, co-workers, and other hockey parents at local rinks: “my kid plays triple A hockey”, or years later, “my kid PLAYED triple A hockey”.  Think of that in the grand scheme of life.  

In your comments here, you pointed out the exact reason why it will exist.  PAHL is somewhat to blame for this since they created the faux AA Major and AA Minor divisions at 14U.  All it did was allow for these birth year teams to form for what was a very short window until Midgets.  Now that they are done with Bantam, they aren't good enough to be 16U AA and don't want to be in a mixed 16A division, so this is their alternative.

Yes USA Hockey does not recognize 15U as a separate level outside of Tier 1, but creating the road to nowhere in PAHL helped to raise this issue as the first birth year going through this process reaches Midget level.

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2 hours ago, HereWithPopcorn said:

In your comments here, you pointed out the exact reason why it will exist.  PAHL is somewhat to blame for this since they created the faux AA Major and AA Minor divisions at 14U.  All it did was allow for these birth year teams to form for what was a very short window until Midgets.  Now that they are done with Bantam, they aren't good enough to be 16U AA and don't want to be in a mixed 16A division, so this is their alternative.

Yes USA Hockey does not recognize 15U as a separate level outside of Tier 1, but creating the road to nowhere in PAHL helped to raise this issue as the first birth year going through this process reaches Midget level.

That’s a fair point.  The creation of U15 Tier 1 without U15 Tier 2 does not help. The overall issues will remain as long as greed, nepotism, and ignorance lead the way, which will be forever.  

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11 hours ago, Danner27 said:

In all honesty, if the predators could get their act together western pa has enough talent when players get to midget to support 3 real tier 1 teams.  With that said, I feel there is no need to play tier 1 before the age of 13. 

Danner. You are usually spot on but there aren't enough Tier 1 players to support 3 teams. Not enough Tier 1 players for even two teams. Three teams are 45 skaters.

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2 hours ago, Denis Lemiuex said:

Danner. You are usually spot on but there aren't enough Tier 1 players to support 3 teams. Not enough Tier 1 players for even two teams. Three teams are 45 skaters.

I am not saying the 3rd legit local team would be some power house, I’m just saying with their location they could field real tier 1 at 15,16 & 18. We do have enough good midget players in the area for this in my opinion, I’ve seen it with both my sons BY’s, hockey continues to grow in the area and around the country. As it currently stands the predators just field the teams Regardless for the cash. If they felt they did not have enough Capable  players to be able to complete in tier 1 (such as the 15s this year) they just need to cancel that particular BY team and try again the following year. I think what gives them a bad rap, they just field and fill regardless if the players are capable. Their other issue is coaching. As for two teams that’s not true, esmark as much as I dislike the area and some things about the program they have legitimate tier 1 teams this season at 15,16 &18. All three made the district tournament. Last look the 15’s were in the 70s (thats about the end of the legitimate teams) the 16s are in the high 40s ( top 1/4 for the by) and the 18s at 20. 

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26 minutes ago, Danner27 said:

I am not saying the 3rd legit local team would be some power house, I’m just saying with their location they could field real tier 1 at 15,16 & 18. We do have enough good midget players in the area for this in my opinion, I’ve seen it with both my sons BY’s, hockey continues to grow in the area and around the country. As it currently stands the predators just field the teams Regardless for the cash. If they felt they did not have enough Capable  players to be able to complete in tier 1 (such as the 15s this year) they just need to cancel that particular BY team and try again the following year. I think what gives them a bad rap, they just field and fill regardless if the players are capable. Their other issue is coaching. As for two teams that’s not true, esmark as much as I dislike the area and some things about the program they have legitimate tier 1 teams this season at 15,16 &18. All three made the district tournament. Last look the 15’s were in the 70s (thats about the end of the legitimate teams) the 16s are in the high 40s ( top 1/4 for the by) and the 18s at 20. 

Only the top 20-25 teams at any BY are legit AAA hockey.  The ranking isn’t as good of an indicator as the RATING.   Preds U15, for example, are rated 5 points below the 25th ranked team.  And don’t forget about Canada. And 9th and 10th graders at New England Prep schools. 
5 points is a lot in ratings.  You can almost think of it as the number of skaters that one team needs to replace.   Take the top 5 players from those faux-AAA teams and coalesce them into one team, and that’s what makes a true AAA team. 
So it is indeed perhaps true that, for example, at the 2005 BY, there might be 30-45 western PA kids who are actually can play AAA, but another 40-50 whose parents THINK that they can but can’t. So if those top 30-45 ended up at 2-3 teams, it could happen. It does in other cities. The issue is that Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, and always a couple more all think they should be that.  

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7 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Only the top 20-25 teams at any BY are legit AAA hockey.  The ranking isn’t as good of an indicator as the RATING.   Preds U15, for example, are rated 5 points below the 25th ranked team.  And don’t forget about Canada. And 9th and 10th graders at New England Prep schools. 
5 points is a lot in ratings.  You can almost think of it as the number of skaters that one team needs to replace.   Take the top 5 players from those faux-AAA teams and coalesce them into one team, and that’s what makes a true AAA team. 
So it is indeed perhaps true that, for example, at the 2005 BY, there might be 30-45 western PA kids who are actually can play AAA, but another 40-50 whose parents THINK that they can but can’t. So if those top 30-45 ended up at 2-3 teams, it could happen. It does in other cities. The issue is that Preds, Vengeance, Esmark, and always a couple more all think they should be that.  

I can’t agree, both of my kids played tier1 for years, i have watched them play against teams in the top 10 all the way down to 100. Personally I feel teams ranked in the top half are legit tier 1 teams. the top 10 teams are a different animal. Going by your logic, only the top 10 teams are real tier 1 teams. go look at ppe & esmark’s midget teams schedule’s on my hockey rankings, Some of the scores will surprise you. Esmark’s 16s are ranked 44 but they beat the number 1 team and lost 4-3 to the number 7 team. Your logic says they are not a real tier 1 team but the scores say otherwise. In my opinion there isn’t much different from teams 20-60 in tier 1. The games can go either way, the data backs this up. 70 and beyond, sure they are much weaker and the argument can be made they are tier 2 teams. Let’s  look at Pahl, every year one aa team is at the top with 2-3 at the very bottom. Should aa just be 4 teams every year ? At that point do you say the 4th place team is a major ? Where does it stop ?  Western pa can support 3 competitive midget tier 1 teams. The vengeance don’t have midget again this year and the icemen just need to turn into tier 2. I’m well aware the ranting number vs ranking. Rating number is part of the reason team 20 doesn’t want to play team 60 They have to beat them by 3 goals to get even game, it doesn’t happen that easy. 

 

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6 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I can’t agree, both of my kids played tier1 for years, i have watched them play against teams in the top 10 all the way down to 100. Personally I feel teams ranked in the top half are legit tier 1 teams. the top 10 teams are a different animal. Going by your logic, only the top 10 teams are real tier 1 teams. go look at ppe & esmark’s midget teams schedule’s on my hockey rankings, Some of the scores will surprise you. Esmark’s 16s are ranked 44 but they beat the number 1 team and lost 4-3 to the number 7 team. Your logic says they are not a real tier 1 team but the scores say otherwise. In my opinion there isn’t much different from teams 20-60 in tier 1. The games can go either way, the data backs this up. 70 and beyond, sure they are much weaker and the argument can be made they are tier 2 teams. Let’s  look at Pahl, every year one aa team is at the top with 2-3 at the very bottom. Should aa just be 4 teams every year ? At that point do you say the 4th place team is a major ? Where does it stop ?  Western pa can support 3 competitive midget tier 1 teams. The vengeance don’t have midget again this year and the icemen just need to turn into tier 2. I’m well aware the ranting number vs ranking. Rating number is part of the reason team 20 doesn’t want to play team 60 They have to beat them by 3 goals to get even game, it doesn’t happen that easy. 

 

Good points. I am saying that by the time they reach U15, there aren’t many kids who have a true future in hockey who play on the teams outside of the top teams.   And in western PA, there could be 2-3 teams in the top 30 if there were 2-3 legit options, rather than 6-8 money grabs. 

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The Vengeance gets ridiculed on here despite the fact that they have opted out of the Midget "money grab" and are focusing on youth teams instead. Now, we all know the likelihood of these teams staying together is slim for a variety of reasons, but which method will not get crucified on here?

I ask because the Preds are getting ridiculed for their "money grab" but people also think that they are/should be a legitimate option.

As for SHAHA forming a 15U AAA team with a core of 05 PPE Black players - that would simply be absurd and definitely not AAA. I'm not even sure that there is enough ice there to facilitate it. And even if there is, for how long......................?

Esmark and PPE are the top 2 choices right now but they both have warts as well.

Maybe the best move for players is the Prep School route. Culver, Gilmour and Shadyside are all in the MidAm District and there are plenty of choices in New England

 

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Right.

Here's a little equation

"18U Prep"  minus an actual Prep School (with room and board) = Nothing different than current 18U team

It's just like the "faux AAA" teams referenced on here, you can call things whatever you want to call them and people will believe you.

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7 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

The Vengeance gets ridiculed on here despite the fact that they have opted out of the Midget "money grab" and are focusing on youth teams instead. Now, we all know the likelihood of these teams staying together is slim for a variety of reasons, but which method will not get crucified on here?

I ask because the Preds are getting ridiculed for their "money grab" but people also think that they are/should be a legitimate option.

As for SHAHA forming a 15U AAA team with a core of 05 PPE Black players - that would simply be absurd and definitely not AAA. I'm not even sure that there is enough ice there to facilitate it. And even if there is, for how long......................?

Esmark and PPE are the top 2 choices right now but they both have warts as well.

Maybe the best move for players is the Prep School route. Culver, Gilmour and Shadyside are all in the MidAm District and there are plenty of choices in New England

 

I’ll only comment on the 15U SHAHA AAA team, as my son was asked about being interested. The ice is there, and was described as 2 weekday practices, 1 weekday skills session, off ice in the YMCA gym, and weekly video sessions. 2-3 non parent coaches as well. As for whether that will count as a “true” AAA program is up to the judgers here on the board.

Not sure about Esmark at 05 because I don’t believe they have a team??

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11 minutes ago, hipcheck66 said:

I’ll only comment on the 15U SHAHA AAA team, as my son was asked about being interested. The ice is there, and was described as 2 weekday practices, 1 weekday skills session, off ice in the YMCA gym, and weekly video sessions. 2-3 non parent coaches as well. As for whether that will count as a “true” AAA program is up to the judgers here on the board.

Not sure about Esmark at 05 because I don’t believe they have a team??

It won’t be “true” AAA unless ALL of the 2005s who don’t make Pens Elite U15 or U16 decide to play there.  Again, the best kids from that birth year who don’t play Pens Elite are all spread out across the current other 2005BY teams.  They won’t all go to the same non-Pens Elite team, because of geography and parents who think more of their kid than they should.  Take the best 6 kids from Preds 05, the top 4 from PPE Black, and the best 1 or 2 from each of the AA 2005 BY teams, and THAT is an AAA team. But that won’t happen, so instead the SHAHA team will be one of 4-5 teams with 4-6 true AAA players and the rest not so much.  Facts. 

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7 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

 

Maybe the best move for players is the Prep School route. Culver, Gilmour and Shadyside are all in the MidAm District and there are plenty of choices in New England

 

And how many really good, skilled kids get overlooked because they don't want to go/can't afford to go to one of those schools? Is committing to something like that really worth the 1/10 of 1% chance you'll ever play even one game on the 4th line in the NHL? 

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2 minutes ago, nemesis8679 said:

And how many really good, skilled kids get overlooked because they don't want to go/can't afford to go to one of those schools? Is committing to something like that really worth the 1/10 of 1% chance you'll ever play even one game on the 4th line in the NHL? 

I can't knock people who choose the prep school route because honestly if I had the means and my son had the desire and talent to go I would do it in a heartbeat. I've never looked at the numbers, but I'd have to assume its roughly the same cost wise as playing for PPE and doing the NC/Excel program. And doesn't Shadyside practice everyday and have a team bus for away games? Sounds okay to me.

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3 hours ago, forbin said:

I can't knock people who choose the prep school route because honestly if I had the means and my son had the desire and talent to go I would do it in a heartbeat. I've never looked at the numbers, but I'd have to assume its roughly the same cost wise as playing for PPE and doing the NC/Excel program. And doesn't Shadyside practice everyday and have a team bus for away games? Sounds okay to me.

My oldest had the talent. We didn’t have the money. The New England prep school they wanted him was giving g him some “scholarships” it still would have cost me 25k a year the school was almost 50k a year. 

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12 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

Good points. I am saying that by the time they reach U15, there aren’t many kids who have a true future in hockey who play on the teams outside of the top teams.   And in western PA, there could be 2-3 teams in the top 30 if there were 2-3 legit options, rather than 6-8 money grabs. 

Yes, sort of the point I was trying to make that there could be 3 legit tier 2 midget programs here. 

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11 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

The Vengeance gets ridiculed on here despite the fact that they have opted out of the Midget "money grab" and are focusing on youth teams instead. Now, we all know the likelihood of these teams staying together is slim for a variety of reasons, but which method will not get crucified on here?

I ask because the Preds are getting ridiculed for their "money grab" but people also think that they are/should be a legitimate option.

As for SHAHA forming a 15U AAA team with a core of 05 PPE Black players - that would simply be absurd and definitely not AAA. I'm not even sure that there is enough ice there to facilitate it. And even if there is, for how long......................?

Esmark and PPE are the top 2 choices right now but they both have warts as well.

Maybe the best move for players is the Prep School route. Culver, Gilmour and Shadyside are all in the MidAm District and there are plenty of choices in New England

 

Nothing against the vengeance, the reason I feel the predators could become a real 3rd option is due to location. Esmark is right by harmar, ice castle has nothing out that way, there are good players in the south hills. I heard today Gary is coaching two tier 1 midget teams again so, as per usual you can toss them out as a real 3rd option. If the predators would bring in some good coaching they could loss the money grab moniker and become a real 3rd option, for some reason they choose not to. 

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7 hours ago, forbin said:

I can't knock people who choose the prep school route because honestly if I had the means and my son had the desire and talent to go I would do it in a heartbeat. I've never looked at the numbers, but I'd have to assume its roughly the same cost wise as playing for PPE and doing the NC/Excel program. And doesn't Shadyside practice everyday and have a team bus for away games? Sounds okay to me.

Yes, judging by their tuition, Shadyside Academy is very doable for most families:

$9,250-13,500 Pre-K $16,250 K $18,975 1st $20,250 2nd-5th $25,100 6th-8th $29,675 9th-12th $13,000 five-day boarding fee $16,500 seven-day boarding fee $2,000 international boarding fee

?

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18 hours ago, Theroadtobeerleague said:

It won’t be “true” AAA unless ALL of the 2005s who don’t make Pens Elite U15 or U16 decide to play there.  Again, the best kids from that birth year who don’t play Pens Elite are all spread out across the current other 2005BY teams.  They won’t all go to the same non-Pens Elite team, because of geography and parents who think more of their kid than they should.  Take the best 6 kids from Preds 05, the top 4 from PPE Black, and the best 1 or 2 from each of the AA 2005 BY teams, and THAT is an AAA team. But that won’t happen, so instead the SHAHA team will be one of 4-5 teams with 4-6 true AAA players and the rest not so much.  Facts. 

Makes no sense.  Why wouldn't they just try out for the Preds?  I bet Esmark will have an U15 team.  At midgets is when Esmark really starts to form teams.  They had an exception, the 03 group, who left the Renegades while they were Bantams, right?  Esmark tried with the 05 or 06 a couple of years ago and it didn't work.

The interesting thing with 05 will be what will the Icemen do?  Become a Yeti, play Tier 2 Independent  or become AAA.  Same goes for the 05 Viper Stars.  Will they stay Tier 2 Independent or will they become the Esmark Stars U15 team.

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10 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

Yes, judging by their tuition, Shadyside Academy is very doable for most families:

$9,250-13,500 Pre-K $16,250 K $18,975 1st $20,250 2nd-5th $25,100 6th-8th $29,675 9th-12th $13,000 five-day boarding fee $16,500 seven-day boarding fee $2,000 international boarding fee

?

Without derailing this thread even more lets just use this as an example:

A 17yr old kid living within commuting distance to Shadyside, no need for the boarding option. Tuition cost would be around $30k. (Probably closer to $23k with financial aid, maybe even less but lets not factor that in at all). 6 practices a week and school provided transportation to away games.

Take that same kid and do the PPE/NC/Excel model. $17k for North Catholic and Excel Program plus an additional roughly $7k for PPE 18U and the cost of travel. I'd estimate that comes out to approximately $28 -30k total.

Now back to shit talking Mt. Lebo...

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