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Looking at MyHockeyRankings, it looks like the 08 elite have played a lot tougher competition, on average, than the Vengeance 08 and are only 1 removed from each other on the rankings.   I think they need to play more to sort out which is better for the season.   It does make a good point that a) they should play each other and b) just think if you combined the top half of both teams how good they might be. 

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The 07 Elite is meh, they lost their best player from last year when they fired the coach (his son). They can't find a good 07 goalie and the #1 is an 08 who may be the 3rd or 4th best in the 08 birth year. The 07 Black is just ?. The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because the teams they scheduled outside the top 100 canceled on them and they have 3 teams scheduled that their black team has played and either beat, tied or kept close in a loss. And the top 08 teams don't want anything to do with the 08 Elite because they don't want to waste their time so they are in a limbo unless they go to a tournament. Plus the 08 Elite had a decent turnover from last season as they lost a goalie, a player from the top line (injury) and 2 defenseman. The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. The 09 Elite is small and has no goaltending, but they are at least trying to put themselves out there to play games by traveling as much as possible since home ice is so hard to come by. The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there. 

To also say about the Vengeance,  if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool. 

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4 hours ago, Questions21 said:

The 07 Elite is meh, they lost their best player from last year when they fired the coach (his son). They can't find a good 07 goalie and the #1 is an 08 who may be the 3rd or 4th best in the 08 birth year. The 07 Black is just ?. The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because the teams they scheduled outside the top 100 canceled on them and they have 3 teams scheduled that their black team has played and either beat, tied or kept close in a loss. And the top 08 teams don't want anything to do with the 08 Elite because they don't want to waste their time so they are in a limbo unless they go to a tournament. Plus the 08 Elite had a decent turnover from last season as they lost a goalie, a player from the top line (injury) and 2 defenseman. The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. The 09 Elite is small and has no goaltending, but they are at least trying to put themselves out there to play games by traveling as much as possible since home ice is so hard to come by. The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there. 

To also say about the Vengeance,  if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool. 

Is there an 07 Vengeance team?

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21 hours ago, Questions21 said:

The 07 Elite is meh, they lost their best player from last year when they fired the coach (his son). They can't find a good 07 goalie and the #1 is an 08 who may be the 3rd or 4th best in the 08 birth year. The 07 Black is just ?. The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because the teams they scheduled outside the top 100 canceled on them and they have 3 teams scheduled that their black team has played and either beat, tied or kept close in a loss. And the top 08 teams don't want anything to do with the 08 Elite because they don't want to waste their time so they are in a limbo unless they go to a tournament. Plus the 08 Elite had a decent turnover from last season as they lost a goalie, a player from the top line (injury) and 2 defenseman. The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. The 09 Elite is small and has no goaltending, but they are at least trying to put themselves out there to play games by traveling as much as possible since home ice is so hard to come by. The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there. 

To also say about the Vengeance,  if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool. 

You’re misinformed. 

The 07 you’re speaking of was marginally better than others in their squirt minor year. Mainly due to the fact that he had been playing on the 06 black team prior and had a years worth of PPE/squirt hockey prior to the other 07’s showing up. Very nice player, but by second year squirts he was not the best on the team. I mean who really cares who the best player is, but facts are facts. There was no void left when he moved on from the team as another kid from out of town filled in. The 07’s being meh has zero to do with that situation.

The 08 goalie you’re talking about made the Brick team last year. He’s amongst the best that birthyear has to offer. He plays up, as mentioned and he succeeds at playing up.

Edited by Rico
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23 hours ago, dazedandconfused said:

So we've put two months plus of the season behind us so the rankings are theoretically starting to find their level. With all of the hoopla about the PPE including best players, best coaching, excel academy and blah, blah, blah why aren't these teams ranked higher across the board? U18 is behind Esmark. U16 is the team built for the Golden child and Coached by the Golden Coach yet can't break the top 10. 15's have crept into top 10 so that's a plus. 14's brought in half of a new team from all over the world and are below .500. 05's just cracked the top 20. 06 Quebec Team looks solid. 07's are a mess. 08's are below another local team and 09's are meaningless. Then you look at the AA teams and whoah, what the hell are people spending all the money for? I guess just the ability to brag to their friends.

Check the rankings of other similar sized cities with similar programs and there you have it. Pittsburgh does not have the population to field teams similar to the competition they face, but they’re in the competition none the less. 

My hockey rankings aren’t indicative of a players developing. Most at PPE would tell you that they aren’t really expecting to be a top ranked team given the circumstances.

 

 

 

 

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Also the 08’s are 14th out of a couple hundred teams so who cares if there’s another Pittsburgh team around them. Good for both programs. I just looked at the 07’s rankings and they are 19th. Once again I’m not sure how being ranked 19th out of a hundred teams is meh. 

And why is anyone even talking about the 09’s? Those kids have just been thrust in to world of real AAA hockey and we’re judging them? We shouldn’t be judging anyone or anything under Bantam to be honest. 

 

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The only thing that held the 07 player back was his temper on the ice, but best yes and if it is not a big deal then why argue the point. 

The 08 goalie playing up was in the right place at the right time, definitely is 3rd or 4th in the 08 birth year. There is nothing wrong with 3rd or 4th best in the birth year, but there is definitely 1 or 2 that the 07's should/could be using. And yes he made the Brick team and just like at every tryout he was the worst goalie and he proved that by being the worst goalie at the Brick tournament. Money buys your kid happiness but doesn't make him look good. 

On the having a couple teams ranked, that is awesome for how small Pittsburgh is. But if some parents put their differences aside, these teams could be really good and could even possibly have 1 or 2 in the top 10 and even 1 near the top. 

 

The only reason the 08's are a big deal is because they will not play the other team and even went as far to put them in a different division last season for their host tournament so they could avoid them. 

 

If it really did not matter until Bantom there would not be a ranking system at the 10u and 12u age. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 5:24 PM, Questions21 said:

The 07 Elite is meh, they lost their best player from last year when they fired the coach (his son). They can't find a good 07 goalie and the #1 is an 08 who may be the 3rd or 4th best in the 08 birth year. The 07 Black is just ?. The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because the teams they scheduled outside the top 100 canceled on them and they have 3 teams scheduled that their black team has played and either beat, tied or kept close in a loss. And the top 08 teams don't want anything to do with the 08 Elite because they don't want to waste their time so they are in a limbo unless they go to a tournament. Plus the 08 Elite had a decent turnover from last season as they lost a goalie, a player from the top line (injury) and 2 defenseman. The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. The 09 Elite is small and has no goaltending, but they are at least trying to put themselves out there to play games by traveling as much as possible since home ice is so hard to come by. The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there. 

To also say about the Vengeance,  if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool. 

1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

Are there still rules about identifying individual players?  Lots of identifying info up above.  I honestly couldn't find the rules on the mobile version

Since Questions 21 has taken the time to call out 9, 10 and 11 year old kids such that it is easy enough to identify the players, perhaps it is only appropriate enough to identify him as well, but referring to him by his full name would take up too much space, so perhaps we just refer to him as "AJ" so we don't personally identify him.

AJ, first of all, this is actually a good post. Your assessment of the PPE Squirt and PW Minor teams are actually pretty good.  Unfortunately, you don't recognize how strong they are relative to the age levels and region.  It just doesn't look good talking about such young players like this.  If you are going to talk about the younger ages, perhaps work to praise them.  Let's see if I can help "correct" your post here so it is more appropriate.  I believe this is what you meant.

Quote

 

On 11/15/2018 at 5:24 PM, Questions21 said:

The 07 Elite is a very solid team.  Despite being in the minor birth year, they are ranked higher than any local PAHL 12U team.  They have been able to well despite losing one of their stronger players from last season.  They lost their coach who treated players like they were much older than they were (much like how I treat my own kid when "she" has a bad game, which is a good thing I am not a coach anymore myself).  They are doing so well with an 08 goalie who is playing up an age level, and is still one of the top goalies.   The 07 Black likewise still rated higher than many PAHL AA teams, despite all those teams being a year older.  The 08 Elite says they have had trouble scheduling teams to play because several teams have cancelled on them when proved not to be a good match-up and it is hard to find replacements on short notice, considering most teams have their schedules planned out before the season even starts.  The 08 Team made a great run through the prestigious Drew Doughty invitational tournament to start the season, making it all the way to the championship game.  They remain strong despite decent turnover from last season, including losing a goalie who no longer wanted to play the position.  (Despite my fascination with 10U goalies, I failed to mention about the 08 Elite having probably one of the top 5 goalies in the country right now).  The 08s are also hurting from losing one of their top players to an injury, which would be a blow to any team if they lose one of their top scorers.  The 08 Black is doing pretty decent for themselves with the addition of a few players. (Wow - an actual decent comment - but this at least brings to my main discussion which this post is all about).  The 09 Elite is small and got off to a rough start, playing several of the Top 5 teams in both the US and Canada, but have since moved up over 10 spots in the rankings to where they are now ranked #13 in the country.  This is credit to the team playing the tougher competition and making them stronger, including their goaltending.  (I just wanted to put down their team and goaltending in particular this week to take attention off my own kid and team after our teams played similar opponents this weekend and had much different results - a 2-1 loss compared to a 9-2 win as one example - oh wait that game is not in the rankings, so must never have happened).  The 09 Black is trying hard and getting some wins here and there (another decent comment that doesn't need edited). 

To also say about the Vengeance, if those kids would go up to UPMC or the Pens would try and get some of those kids, they would have some solid 07, 08 and 09 Elite and Black teams or vice versa. The addition of A's to some of the other local teams just dilutes the pool.  (I am just saying this to throw people off as I have my own kid playing for the Vengeance this season as well - maybe I should watch what I say or if all these Vengeance players were to go to PPE, I may be out of a team).

 

Again - "AJ" - your original post was a good post and a good assessment, but please know it is just not very professional to put down other 9, 10 and 11 year old kids, especially from a program you actively participate with, and also from a competing team at the same time (and especially against kids from the same specific position).  You don't want people having a bad opinion of you, especially while your kid is at such a young age.  I am hoping these corrections helped to improve your post so you know how to praise some of the top young talent in the area instead of putting them down.  Take the advice of some of the others who have been around on the boards for awhile and don't worry about posting about the younger ages.  If you keep this up, you may not be involved in the game long enough for when it matters. 

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6 hours ago, Questions21 said:

The only thing that held the 07 player back was his temper on the ice, but best yes and if it is not a big deal then why argue the point. 

The 08 goalie playing up was in the right place at the right time, definitely is 3rd or 4th in the 08 birth year. There is nothing wrong with 3rd or 4th best in the birth year, but there is definitely 1 or 2 that the 07's should/could be using. And yes he made the Brick team and just like at every tryout he was the worst goalie and he proved that by being the worst goalie at the Brick tournament. Money buys your kid happiness but doesn't make him look good. 

On the having a couple teams ranked, that is awesome for how small Pittsburgh is. But if some parents put their differences aside, these teams could be really good and could even possibly have 1 or 2 in the top 10 and even 1 near the top. 

 

The only reason the 08's are a big deal is because they will not play the other team and even went as far to put them in a different division last season for their host tournament so they could avoid them. 

 

If it really did not matter until Bantom there would not be a ranking system at the 10u and 12u age. 

Well you seemed to be painting a picture that one kid leaving was responsible for a team being “meh”. I was simply pointing out that he was marginally better than the other top kids on that team until others caught up. He is a good player and a good kid. Let’s not be pretentious though, tempers holding kids back. No, not quite. 

I was pointing out that it’s irrelevant to talk about who the best is, because at this age there’s usually small differences between your “top” players and whoever is the best is largely based on their parents fantasies about what they think makes a kid “the best”. 

The 08 “issue” is clear as day. You have one group of kids who are dedicated to hockey and you have another group of kids are are multi-sport athletes and/or don’t want all that’s involved with PPE. I don’t really think there’s “differences” between parents that are separating this group as much as differences in philosophy. 

You must be an 08 vengeance parent because your info, player evaluation is wayyyy off. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rico
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It's not a season until the Squirts get their panties in a bunch but in all seriousness, doesn't the USA Hockey ADM LTAD (long term athlete development) use multiple sports as one of their guiding principles? And by the way, the BEST 07 is clear cut and playing on the 06 team and is pretty dominant at that age group so you can all lay that argument to rest right now.

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People who evaluate players for a living will tell you that they don’t give a single flying fuck about any kid in squirts or peewee’s.

Being the best, one of the best, good, whatever always comes with * in squirts and peewee’s. Because it’s not real hockey. It’s breakaway hockey. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Whoknew said:

Just curious...why do people assume kids don't play multiple sports if they play for PPE?

I guess you can but that’s going to be a daunting task depending on the sport. You have 3 night a week practices and gone 2 weekends a month. What other winter sport can you commit to while playing AAA hockey? 

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2 minutes ago, Rico said:

I guess you can but that’s going to be a daunting task depending on the sport. You have 3 night a week practices and gone 2 weekends a month. What other winter sport can you commit to while playing AAA hockey? 

So they may play other sports in spring...some of the things I have read and seen on herd make it seem like they do nothing else all year at the younger ages.

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9 minutes ago, dazedandconfused said:

You sign an agreement that states and I'm paraphrasing, you will do nothing that interferes with PPE hockey. I've seen it. I've signed it.

Username checks out. 

Edited by Rico
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I can agree with CORRECTIONS, that is a better way to say those things. 

They are plenty of kids at PPE that play other sports. Soccer, Lacrosse,  Basketball,  Baseball all year, Roller/Dek hockey and even school ice teams. The agreement is more that you don't choose the other activity over PPE. 

And it is not about putting any kids down really, never said the 08 was horrible, just said there were better choices at the time. To be top 5 in this area is amazing and the PPE could say they have the top 4 08 goalies in the area and yes the 08 Elite definitely have 1 of the top goalie in the USA or Canada easily. That kid is an kid  amazing on and off the ice. 

 

HOOMIE makes a good point also with development,  if they are so high on the training they provide then why do they have to brings kids in from out of town/country for the older teams instead of the kids that have been there for years. 

 

Dazed and confused and you sir are correct with the best 07 playing up and that kid is something to watch if anyone ever gets a chance. There are YouTube videos also if you don't. See. Him in some summer leagues, very nice kid also. 

 

Rico I agree with you also Squirt and PeeWees are just break away hockey, and it has a lot to do with USA hockey not allowing teams to teach a system. That is why Canadians teams are more advanced at those ages. 

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