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1 hour ago, sadday4hockey said:

Rico, Mr. professional evaluator that you are, why didn't you mention the the ties and the loss that occurred? Did they not actually happen? Were they a figment of someone's imagination? I don't know if they're a mess, but the word inconsistent certainly applies.

Plus the fact that the 08 might not have been the goalie for that game, and they lost to that team 7-1 already this year. The #1 team they beat has 8 losses and 3 ties. There are 2 teams behind that #1 team that beat them twice already this year. 

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The 08's finished what 7th last year with only part of the best players. If ALL of the top 08's from the PPE, Vengeance and maybe 1 or 2 not in those organizations got together they would be the best team in the country.  Hands down???. If the 07's had all of the best 07's in western PA they would be top 3 easily. 

The Vengeance lose out a bit because they are so open with their teams and not forcing kids to make them #1 priority. The PPE lose out because at almost every birth year there are kids on Elite that should be on Black or kids on Black that shouldn't be on Black or Elite. But they are because of who they are or who their parents are. 

There are plenty of great players at most of the birth years in western PA. It's just trying to get them all together that is the problem. "If" there was an organization that could guarantee an unbiased atmosphere and could not be bought by parents. Pittsburgh could be a nuce hub for hockey, especially for how small it is compared to other hockey cities. 

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3 hours ago, sadday4hockey said:

Rico, Mr. professional evaluator that you are, why didn't you mention the the ties and the loss that occurred? Did they not actually happen? Were they a figment of someone's imagination? I don't know if they're a mess, but the word inconsistent certainly applies.

Does it matter if they tied or lost? I wasn’t there, so I didn’t even know about the other games. Just heard they beat the number one team in the country and that’s significant regardless of whether or not the number two or three teams beat them (number one) also. 

You sound jealous. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Questions21 said:

The 08's finished what 7th last year with only part of the best players. If ALL of the top 08's from the PPE, Vengeance and maybe 1 or 2 not in those organizations got together they would be the best team in the country.  Hands down???. If the 07's had all of the best 07's in western PA they would be top 3 easily. 

The Vengeance lose out a bit because they are so open with their teams and not forcing kids to make them #1 priority. The PPE lose out because at almost every birth year there are kids on Elite that should be on Black or kids on Black that shouldn't be on Black or Elite. But they are because of who they are or who their parents are. 

There are plenty of great players at most of the birth years in western PA. It's just trying to get them all together that is the problem. "If" there was an organization that could guarantee an unbiased atmosphere and could not be bought by parents. Pittsburgh could be a nuce hub for hockey, especially for how small it is compared to other hockey cities. 

The 08 thing is hyperbole and tired. Again, there are birthyears at the PPE who are significantly more deep than the 08’ birthyear, have all of the “top” players on them and they aren’t the number one team, not even top 3. 

Would they improve, yes. Does it really matter at the squirt level, no. Is anyone scouting squirts or peewees, no. Do any scouts give a shit what squirt teams are number one ??????? in the country, no. Does anything significant, outside of knowing what competition to schedule for the next year, come out of squirt and peewee hockey rankings, no. Do parents eat this shit up and think the chances of their kid doing anything significant in the sport rely on where their squirt team stands, yes. Should organizations offer mental health services to parents, yes. 

 

Edited by Rico
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In regards to there being so much talent around western PA... I have no clue. 

There’s a big difference between playing against another PAHL team and being able to skate against the Toronto Marlies. 

The pay to play stuff is absolute non-sense that bitter people pedal on message boards. It also echos in the lobbies of every PAHL rink. I’m going to be very vague, but there are more than a few kids at PPE who’s parents are well off, work for the organization, etc who aren’t automatically cast into any specific team. Please believe that this non-sense is not representative of what actually goes on in Cranberry. 

 

 

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Also Questions, the 07’s finished 4th I believe in their squirt minor year... the 06’s were 6-7 in theirs.

So yes, a combined team may have done better than 7th in the 08’s minor year but once all of the major metro areas start to consolidate teams starting in squirt major, it’s a different story. 

Edited by Rico
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So because other teams at the PPE have all the best kids and are not #1, it's impossible for the 07's or the 08's. All because the older teams are supposedly "more deep". It's different birth years and different competition. 

Would they improve- yes, does it matter- it should for an organization like that, especially with the turnout they had at some of their tryouts this year, scouts- they were at the spring tournament and the Brick tournament recruiting kids, scheduling- yes but they supposedly have trouble scheduling teams because most teams don't want to come to Pittsburgh to play 1 team only, parents eating it up- yes they do, mental health evaluations- yes, paying that much for such a small percentage chance of going somewhere. 

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You have no clue about the talent around Western PA but you are claiming that some of the older teams at PPE have all the best kids. So which is it, either you know there is talent here or you don't?

Yes there is a big difference between PAHL teams and the Toronto Marlies, but that is 2 different leagues. As I'm sure there are high school teams in Canada, a PAHL team would not play the Toronto Marlies. 

 

The pay to play is a thing at PPE, if you don't believe that then you must be one of them. I guarantee you could go through each team and find AT LEAST 1 kid on every team that is there because of money or name. If people didn't believe it the tryout numbers wouldn't of been down this year. If they believe in their system so much then why do they have to go out and get players from out of the state and county sometimes. 

I can say one myth that is not true is about the $$$. If you actually sit and break everything down that you get uniforms, practices, games etc. It is cheaper than most if not all other organizations, even some high school teams are getting in the couple thousands range plus Jersey, pants, jump suits, socks, bags. 

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1 hour ago, Rico said:

Also Questions, the 07’s finished 4th I believe in their squirt minor year... the 06’s were 6-7 in theirs.

So yes, a combined team may have done better than 7th in the 08’s minor year but once all of the major metro areas start to consolidate teams starting in squirt major, it’s a different story. 

Looked it up and yes 07's were 4th, 06's were 5th. A combined 08 team this year would be rank top 3 easily also. I see where you come from on the bigger cities, but a lot of the teams from minor are in or near the same position as major as it was with the 06's and 07's. I don't know about the 06's, but I know that the 07's lost a player or 2 and a goalie from minor to major and could be why they slid a bit. Also the 08's lost a good player (injury) and a goalie from last year plus some movement within and that could be the reason for their small slide this season. There is potential and a future for these teams "if" they can get the best kids and keep them. But a player here and there every year has the potential to hurt a team. 

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Scouts recruiting kids at the brick tournament? Send me a list of some who 8 year olds who committed to whatever D1 schools were scouting.

Or is the myth that “scouts” are around good for business, for tournament directors. 

I’m assuming the “scouts” you are talking about are really just people who are involved with Spring teams, looking to add kids to their list of teams. Another facet of youth hockey that preys on parents insecuritie$. 

Dont get me wrong, spring hockey can be fun and enjoyable for everyone but it’s a business like everything else. 

There are no scouts, atleast “scouts” who are doing anything meaningful to your kids hockey career, at squirt games. Said scouts do not care to watch kids try to skate as fast they can to the other net, unabashed, and shoot for one of the top corners. 

Kids these ages are playing breakaway hockey. Skate fast, dangle, shoot. It’s a great time for the kids and they should enjoy it. 

BUT

You as a parent, scouts, coaches, don’t know what kind of player a player is going to be until the physical element of the game is present. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rico
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There’s a big shift between a squirt or peewee defensemen who is underdeveloped at skating backwards, who puck watches, is probably all over the place in terms of position...

... and a 14 year old Defesemen who is going to stay with the puck carrier every step of the way, play the body, and read plays. 

I won’t even talk about the differences in the Goalies. 

I can’t say it enough, the game that squirts and peewees are playing is not the game they will be playing down the road. Stop getting caught up in who the “best” is, who would be the top team, who scored the most goals, who got invited to what at this age.... That doesn’t mean that the kids and parents shouldn’t enjoy themselves. That’s what it’s all about... but that’s really all you can take from it right now.

And with this wisdom shared. I’m done. Good luck to everyone on their season and have fun.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Rico
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The idiocy in this thread talking about Squirt level kids and their "ability level" is astounding.  And that scouts attend games at this level?

I question the hockey IQ of western Pennsylvanian's but also recognizing most cannot be this ill informed or delusional...........or can they??????

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On 11/21/2018 at 2:42 PM, fafa fohi said:

The idiocy in this thread talking about Squirt level kids and their "ability level" is astounding.  And that scouts attend games at this level?

I question the hockey IQ of western Pennsylvanian's but also recognizing most cannot be this ill informed or delusional...........or can they??????

Yes. Yes, they can. Just go listen to the parents carry on at a squirt game, doesn't matter who is playing or where. PAHL is just as bad, not just the independent teams have this malady. Everyone's kid is going to the show around here. Best eight year old goal tender in the country, that was a part of this thread, yes? ?? 

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On 11/21/2018 at 7:47 AM, Rico said:

There’s a big shift between a squirt or peewee defensemen who is underdeveloped at skating backwards,

 

I don't think any defensemen on the PPE squirt or peewee teams are underdeveloped at skating backwards.

 

I can give you positioning but not skating. 

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19 hours ago, twoboys said:

I don't think any defensemen on the PPE squirt or peewee teams are underdeveloped at skating backwards.

 

I can give you positioning but not skating. 

Kids that age, everywhere, are not developed at the numerous transition methods it takes to keep up with someone skating forward. 

They don’t even have the muscular strength, hip flex, or experience to put it all together yet.

And if we’re being honest, quite a few of their straight backward c cuts aren’t even being performed right or to the full extent. 

 

My whole point though - is that eventually these Defensmen are going to figure it all out and come into their own. They will be coached on details. It won’t be a matter of skating fast and dangling around them like it was in squirts and peewees. 

I was using this to support my point that squirt and peewee hockey is not a real indicator of what a player is going to be when crap gets real. So to sit here and debate about what squirt or peewee kid is the “best”, who scored the most goals, made the most saves, who’s team is number one if they added 4-5 kids, who’s playing on what team and where, who’s getting private lessons with Brent Gretzky is all #*!&!# irrelevant until a kid can perform at a high level once the real game of hockey starts (at bantam). 

Once again, this doesn’t mean that the kids and parents shouldn’t have fun and be proud of accomplishments at the younger ages. There’s a lot of accolades to have - but to people who know hockey - the second you start to get pretentious (all the things mentioned above) - the people who see the big picture do a hard eye roll. 

 

Edited by Paul Baxter
profanity edited
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  • 4 weeks later...
1 hour ago, aaaahockey said:

I just remembered this thread - according to MyHockeyRankings ppe 08 beat the vengeance this past weekend. Guess they weren't just ranked higher because they "played better teams". 

It was not much of a game either. PPE had to kill about 10 penalties and the Vengeance did not score until a few minutes left in the game. It looked like an old NJ Devils game after the PPE went up by 1. 

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7 hours ago, Questions21 said:

It was not much of a game either. PPE had to kill about 10 penalties and the Vengeance did not score until a few minutes left in the game. It looked like an old NJ Devils game after the PPE went up by 1. 

I wish I had known ahead of time and I would have went even though they are "just squirts" I bet it was a fun game regardless. Hope the parents on both sides behaved themselves as becoming AAA hockey ?

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Not sure what game you were watching if you didn’t think it was good.  PE outplayed them in the first by scoring 2 goals to 0. Shots at the end of the period were 7-2. Once the Vengeance team settled in they outplayed PE for the next 2 periods. The turning point in the game came in the 2nd pd with about 5 minutes left in the period the vengeance scored and the ref waved it off. How he missed it is beyond me, but if the game is 2-1 from that point on it would have been interesting to see how it would have played out. PE blocked a shot from the point on a pk and scored on a breakaway and took a 3-0 lead into the 3rd. I say interesting because they never really had to play with any pressure which if they count the goal that clearly went in the complextion of the game may be different. Shots finished Vengeance 15 pe 12, Pe had 5 shots on goal in the final 2 periods and it wasn’t because they went into a defensive shell. As far as the penalties they were legit calls the vengeance team in my opinion is faster top to bottom and pe players were hauling them down. No excuses PE won they deserved to win but it definitely was a “game”

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The PPE being outshot makes sense since they had to kill off so many penalties over the last 2 periods. Which would put them in a defensive shell. They had the lead and did not press until it was a clear chance. 5 on 5 the Vengeance were out played and out skated. The Vengeance definitely did have some speed, it was matched by some of the D and back checking of the O. The goal scored by the Vengeance was a nice goal, it was to little to late and scored on the back up after the PPE pulled the starter. Not taking anything away from the Vengeance as they have a handful of ELITE kids, but the PPE proved to have more depth (in that game). Best of 3 I could see the Vengeance possibly pulling out a tie, best of 5 1 win. 

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28 minutes ago, Moj said:

Did you see the goal against the first goalie? What’s your thoughts on if it went in or not? 

 

Hard for me to believe the vengeance we’re getting outplayed and drawing all the penalties at the same time.

 

 

PPE played half the game short handed, which could suggest the Vengence had an advantage in terms of skating.  Issue is Vengence lacked a scoring punch with 6+ power play chances.  Even if the goal that was called off counted, its a 3-2 game.  What has to be frustrating for the Vengence is the penalties + shots were in the their favor.  Bottom line is game leaned in Vengence favor and it still wasn’t enough.  Oh and, the “goalie” that played half the game the Vengence claimed can’t win a game, ended up looking pretty stellar.  

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