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2020-21 Tryouts?


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3 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

That sounds like some of the politics with a HS team in our town.  School initials are "GL".  Loads of double standards... some kids can miss practices for AAA and AA teams and get on the 1st line, others if they miss or late 1 practice for an AAA or AA team they're demoted to the 3rd/4th line.  A lot of schools aren't in the business of putting the best 20 players on the ice, which is the problem with PIHL teams and lack of oversight as I mentioned before.

I would agree that pihl teams don’t seem to always play their best players for whatever reason (first you have to get them to join the team). Tier 1 kids get frustrated watching a dman think he’s Paul Coffey leading the rush just to turn the puck over at the opponents blue line or line mates playIng 3 on 3 Superman hockey, but I suppose both of these should be put on coaching. Regardless of skill level and skating ability, kids should be taught to move the puck, use your line mates. The best thing I’ve ever heard a coach yell during a game “you can’t skate the fn thing faster than you can pass it”. 

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1 hour ago, Danner27 said:

I would agree that pihl teams don’t seem to always play their best players for whatever reason (first you have to get them to join the team). Tier 1 kids get frustrated watching a dman think he’s Paul Coffey leading the rush just to turn the puck over at the opponents blue line or line mates playIng 3 on 3 Superman hockey, but I suppose both of these should be put on coaching. Regardless of skill level and skating ability, kids should be taught to move the puck, use your line mates. The best thing I’ve ever heard a coach yell during a game “you can’t skate the fn thing faster than you can pass it”. 

 Definitely a coaching problem. If they want to play like that, then you're minutes get cut. That kind of play doesn't win you games. That might work when you're 10 years old, but not long after. I've seen countless high-skilled players get stopped by average players (and below-average) with good coaching. And it makes those less skilled players better by way of boosting their confidence and seeing that they can be impactful in a game. That's why I constantly reinforce to kids that to me or anybody who is knowledgeable about the sport, that a well-timed block or winning a puck battle is just as important as scoring a goal. And so is a nice pass to the player with the best chance to score, regardless of where that other kid falls on the depth chart. Sooner or later, most of them get it that yeah, it's easy to notice a goal being scored, but that's just one part of the overall game. And unless you're Sidney Crosby, the average high- skilled player is not consistently going to be able to deke and stick handle around 4 opposing players to score on a no-risk-to-the-goalie shot while their team mates are tapping their sticks the whole play. 

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5 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

 Definitely a coaching problem. If they want to play like that, then you're minutes get cut. That kind of play doesn't win you games. That might work when you're 10 years old, but not long after. I've seen countless high-skilled players get stopped by average players (and below-average) with good coaching. And it makes those less skilled players better by way of boosting their confidence and seeing that they can be impactful in a game. That's why I constantly reinforce to kids that to me or anybody who is knowledgeable about the sport, that a well-timed block or winning a puck battle is just as important as scoring a goal. And so is a nice pass to the player with the best chance to score, regardless of where that other kid falls on the depth chart. Sooner or later, most of them get it that yeah, it's easy to notice a goal being scored, but that's just one part of the overall game. And unless you're Sidney Crosby, the average high- skilled player is not consistently going to be able to deke and stick handle around 4 opposing players to score on a no-risk-to-the-goalie shot while their team mates are tapping their sticks the whole play. 

I agree but my point is most of the higher skilled kids are moving the puck and playing their positions correctly, d that know when to join the rush etc. the middle of the road kids seem to be the ones that want to play 3 on 3 style and try to score every goal alone, that frustrates the higher skilled kids. 

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7 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I would agree that pihl teams don’t seem to always play their best players for whatever reason (first you have to get them to join the team). Tier 1 kids get frustrated watching a dman think he’s Paul Coffey leading the rush just to turn the puck over at the opponents blue line or line mates playIng 3 on 3 Superman hockey, but I suppose both of these should be put on coaching. Regardless of skill level and skating ability, kids should be taught to move the puck, use your line mates. The best thing I’ve ever heard a coach yell during a game “you can’t skate the fn thing faster than you can pass it”. 

 

6 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

 Definitely a coaching problem. If they want to play like that, then you're minutes get cut. That kind of play doesn't win you games. That might work when you're 10 years old, but not long after. I've seen countless high-skilled players get stopped by average players (and below-average) with good coaching. And it makes those less skilled players better by way of boosting their confidence and seeing that they can be impactful in a game. That's why I constantly reinforce to kids that to me or anybody who is knowledgeable about the sport, that a well-timed block or winning a puck battle is just as important as scoring a goal. And so is a nice pass to the player with the best chance to score, regardless of where that other kid falls on the depth chart. Sooner or later, most of them get it that yeah, it's easy to notice a goal being scored, but that's just one part of the overall game. And unless you're Sidney Crosby, the average high- skilled player is not consistently going to be able to deke and stick handle around 4 opposing players to score on a no-risk-to-the-goalie shot while their team mates are tapping their sticks the whole play. 

While I agree that it is a coaching problem, more importantly most times it is a Board problem.  In our district, as with most others I suppose, the Board members have the less skilled children playing, and because of that Varsity turns into the "next group up" because it is their turn and not entirely because it is deserved.  A few younger skilled players make the cut, but there is definitely a less talented group that gets put into the mix when there are absolutely better options.

The result is that the team does not perform to its potential, and it also puts a sour taste in the other talented players that get bumped and stay JV until the "my turn" kids graduate out.  Unfortunately, the cycle continues and the program turns into more developmental than it should need to be at high school.

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21 hours ago, hockey2020 said:

King sure spends a lot of time talking about youth sports for someone who keeps telling everyone else not to waste their time! It is hilarious!  

Although you may disagree with his tone and "in your face" form of communication, that fact still remains that the majority of the time he is still right.  A lot of people here dislike the way the message is delivered, but the message itself is still factually correct.  As for why he does this with no stake in youth hockey anymore, maybe he is just trying to see if others can learn from his experiences and maybe even his mistakes.  My kid is long gone from youth, junior and college (club) hockey, but I still come on here to try to help others and of course, get a laugh or two.  If you still have kids playing hockey right now, my advice is to listen to those who have gone before you.  It may just save you some heartache and maybe even a little $$$.

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6 hours ago, nemesis8679 said:

 Definitely a coaching problem. If they want to play like that, then you're minutes get cut. That kind of play doesn't win you games. That might work when you're 10 years old, but not long after. I've seen countless high-skilled players get stopped by average players (and below-average) with good coaching. And it makes those less skilled players better by way of boosting their confidence and seeing that they can be impactful in a game. That's why I constantly reinforce to kids that to me or anybody who is knowledgeable about the sport, that a well-timed block or winning a puck battle is just as important as scoring a goal. And so is a nice pass to the player with the best chance to score, regardless of where that other kid falls on the depth chart. Sooner or later, most of them get it that yeah, it's easy to notice a goal being scored, but that's just one part of the overall game. And unless you're Sidney Crosby, the average high- skilled player is not consistently going to be able to deke and stick handle around 4 opposing players to score on a no-risk-to-the-goalie shot while their team mates are tapping their sticks the whole play. 

Yeah Nemesis!  Here is a topic we can agree on. :classic_biggrin:

My kid was never a "goal scorer", but did have a fairly successful career as a d-man with a great +/-, perfect tape-to-tape passes and rarely lost a battle on the boards.  Always towards the bottom of the stats list after Peewee's (that when he realized he had a role to play on the team, which was skating it coast-to-coast and shooting).  A lot of times when people came calling on him I was always surprised because of his lack of goals, but every coach pointed out (just like you did), there is more to this game than scoring goals.

Great post, thanks

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1 hour ago, Eddie Shore said:

Yeah Nemesis!  Here is a topic we can agree on. :classic_biggrin:

My kid was never a "goal scorer", but did have a fairly successful career as a d-man with a great +/-, perfect tape-to-tape passes and rarely lost a battle on the boards.  Always towards the bottom of the stats list after Peewee's (that when he realized he had a role to play on the team, which was skating it coast-to-coast and shooting).  A lot of times when people came calling on him I was always surprised because of his lack of goals, but every coach pointed out (just like you did), there is more to this game than scoring goals.

Great post, thanks

Yep, it's 100% true. And a good coach will utilize those fundamentally solid guys over the one-trick ponies every day of the week. And they'll also usually get the respect of their team mates fairly effortlessly. A great easy example is Dominik Simon. A winger that doesn't score much, yet there he is getting good minutes on an NHL team. And Sullivan is widely considered a top coach in the league. It's no coincidence. There's a reason for that. Yet, look how many casual fans constantly complain about him. Now scale that down from the NHL to lower leagues, and the general concept still works the same. 

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1 hour ago, nemesis8679 said:

Yep, it's 100% true. And a good coach will utilize those fundamentally solid guys over the one-trick ponies every day of the week. And they'll also usually get the respect of their team mates fairly effortlessly. A great easy example is Dominik Simon. A winger that doesn't score much, yet there he is getting good minutes on an NHL team. And Sullivan is widely considered a top coach in the league. It's no coincidence. There's a reason for that. Yet, look how many casual fans constantly complain about him. Now scale that down from the NHL to lower leagues, and the general concept still works the same. 

Never thought of that.  He was always voted most popular, top teammate, or person who everyone wanted to play with on the teams, and I thought it was just because he was easy going and never complained.  Maybe it was more about the way he played than his personality in general.

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15 hours ago, Danner27 said:

I would agree that pihl teams don’t seem to always play their best players for whatever reason (first you have to get them to join the team). Tier 1 kids get frustrated watching a dman think he’s Paul Coffey leading the rush just to turn the puck over at the opponents blue line or line mates playIng 3 on 3 Superman hockey, but I suppose both of these should be put on coaching. Regardless of skill level and skating ability, kids should be taught to move the puck, use your line mates. The best thing I’ve ever heard a coach yell during a game “you can’t skate the fn thing faster than you can pass it”. 

I will elaborate more on our situation later this year. 

The roster at our school has never been the best 20.  It has been the FAVORITE (or friends and family) 20.  If you aren't a favorite or friend of a favorite or don't kiss the boards A$$, you literally could be really good and not taken on the team.  Therefore you have players on the team who aren't as good as some not on the team and that leads to other issues inside the school bordering on bullying etc.  The players know that certain player(s) who are on the varsity team aren't as good as other player(s) who go to the school but aren't on the school's team for F & F / Political reasons.

I call it political BS and thank GOD we're done with that all.  I will NEVER stoop to that level of having to kiss A$$ for my kid to play on a team.

 

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4 hours ago, Eddie Shore said:

Never thought of that.  He was always voted most popular, top teammate, or person who everyone wanted to play with on the teams, and I thought it was just because he was easy going and never complained.  Maybe it was more about the way he played than his personality in general.

Crosby has said Simon is one of the most skilled players on that whole team. Matt Murray has been quoted with that same opinion as well. 

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23 hours ago, Ynot02 said:

Pens Elite starts June 15th and wrap up before or on the 21st.

Absolute farce!  Nothing like having tryouts 3 months after the kids last skated with basically no warmup time.  I'm sure those will be fair tryouts, um, yeah.

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14 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

Absolute farce!  Nothing like having tryouts 3 months after the kids last skated with basically no warmup time.  I'm sure those will be fair tryouts, um, yeah.

According to someone on here the pens elite kids have been skating for weeks. Actually sounds like almost everyone has been skating for weeks at various privately owned facilities. Also I bet they would take your money to give you a weeklong tune-up leading up to it if you are worried ?

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15 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

Absolute farce!  Nothing like having tryouts 3 months after the kids last skated with basically no warmup time.  I'm sure those will be fair tryouts, um, yeah.

At tier1 even some tier2, the majority of the teams are picked before the tryout starts. 

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53 minutes ago, aaaahockey said:

According to someone on here the pens elite kids have been skating for weeks. Actually sounds like almost everyone has been skating for weeks at various privately owned facilities. Also I bet they would take your money to give you a weeklong tune-up leading up to it if you are worried ?

not worried at all!  Just finding all these immediate tryouts (other orgs have announced as well in basically the same timeframe) - funny.  Technically there's never been a 3 month layoff from hockey, ever, and now BAM we have all these tryouts with little prep time for the kids. 


Reminds me of PIHL hockey tryouts that are held in the middle of summer LOL.  but of course we know that most PIHL teams are pre-picked as well.

Glad my kids are past the age of all this rubbish

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1 hour ago, Scooby Doo said:

not worried at all!  Just finding all these immediate tryouts (other orgs have announced as well in basically the same timeframe) - funny.  Technically there's never been a 3 month layoff from hockey, ever, and now BAM we have all these tryouts with little prep time for the kids. 


Reminds me of PIHL hockey tryouts that are held in the middle of summer LOL.  but of course we know that most PIHL teams are pre-picked as well.

Glad my kids are past the age of all this rubbish

$$$$$

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2 hours ago, Scooby Doo said:

not worried at all!  Just finding all these immediate tryouts (other orgs have announced as well in basically the same timeframe) - funny.  Technically there's never been a 3 month layoff from hockey, ever, and now BAM we have all these tryouts with little prep time for the kids. 


Reminds me of PIHL hockey tryouts that are held in the middle of summer LOL.  but of course we know that most PIHL teams are pre-picked as well.

Glad my kids are past the age of all this rubbish

Yeah I knew you personally weren't worried. I just meant people who are. 

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If teams were not already picked wouldn't you want to have tryouts at different times?  Organizations schedule tryouts the same time as other organizations so the kids who know they have made the team are the one's who show up.  Most of this is already decided.

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On ‎6‎/‎2‎/‎2020 at 9:44 PM, Scooby Doo said:

Absolute farce!  Nothing like having tryouts 3 months after the kids last skated with basically no warmup time.  I'm sure those will be fair tryouts, um, yeah.

Not trying to pick a fight with you, but I am confused.  Tons of people were on other posts saying how great the time off is, and it wouldn't really hurt the kids (unless they are just sitting around playing video games).  I was one of the ones (and maybe you were too, I don't remember), that said when my kid was playing he always looked real rusty when not on the ice for several months.  I said it was going to really hurt some kids at tryouts.  Others here are correct the "chosen" kids have been on the ice the whole time.  It's the ones who were "left out" that will look terrible at tryouts.  So, I do agree with you, farce...……...

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36 minutes ago, Eddie Shore said:

Not trying to pick a fight with you, but I am confused.  Tons of people were on other posts saying how great the time off is, and it wouldn't really hurt the kids (unless they are just sitting around playing video games).  I was one of the ones (and maybe you were too, I don't remember), that said when my kid was playing he always looked real rusty when not on the ice for several months.  I said it was going to really hurt some kids at tryouts.  Others here are correct the "chosen" kids have been on the ice the whole time.  It's the ones who were "left out" that will look terrible at tryouts.  So, I do agree with you, farce...……...

No speaking for Scooby, but there is a balance of "my kid needs 2-3 months off" and "get on the ice for tryouts without having stepped on the ice for 3 months. ". I think having a tune-up or a couple weeks to reacclimate would be useful for some kids. Doesn't really matter when it is likely someone could name the rosters right now with 99% accuracy for every pens team barring them bringing in someone from outside Western PA

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2 hours ago, aaaahockey said:

No speaking for Scooby, but there is a balance of "my kid needs 2-3 months off" and "get on the ice for tryouts without having stepped on the ice for 3 months. ". I think having a tune-up or a couple weeks to reacclimate would be useful for some kids. Doesn't really matter when it is likely someone could name the rosters right now with 99% accuracy for every pens team barring them bringing in someone from outside Western PA

yes, the line above is my thought exactly...

 

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42 minutes ago, The King said:

If a coach needs to see a kid at 100% of his sport specific abilities at tryouts they have zero intention of developing their abilities throughout the season. And spare me parental opinions on what constitutes the “top players” at tryouts. Each coach needs to evaluate and select players that he or she will be able to properly develop and mold into the team structure. Not everyone values the same thing. But to suggest that a player that goes to play baseball or run track instead of playing 3 on 3, spring league or joining any number of events that rinks put on to keep the lights on in the summer, has any less to offer than a player whose manual dexterity related to puck handling is slightly sharper is moronic and why the sport has such a bad rep at the amateur level. The number of competent coaches within USA hockey is dwindling. But what’s worse is that Joe and Joyce MeddleParent know it all and think it’s always a conspiracy. Good coaches value athleticism, speed, strength, and work ethic. That’s what you look for at a tryout if you have any thoughts of being a good coach in any sport. If a player lacks any one of those attributes, the others better be elite. All sport specific skills can be honed and attained with those attributes in place. What type of skills the coach prefers will always show in their players. With that in mind, these coaches deserve compensation. But you can’t have Joe and Joyce dictating whether or not these guys are competent or not. But what a confounding situation you have when USA hockey has decided that J&J are what matter. That’s why you’ll see coaching competence go south. Nobody wants the hassle and USA hockey prefers controllable assets. Daddy coaches, step right up! 

Agree, I had a kid that never wanted to play other sports so hockey was all he did.  Compound that with the fact that he was never a great player (sorry, truth hurts), he was average or maybe slightly above.  I just know he always complained when he was off for a while.  I will agree with the zero intentions of coaches developing players. 

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2 hours ago, The King said:

@Eddie Shore serious question, if your son who you admit wasn’t a great player, was in an area that didn’t have a team for everyone, had to make cuts, and didn’t allow him a place to play the sport, would you deem that cruel, exclusive, and discriminatory or accept that this is a learning experience and not everyone is cut out for it? I’m dating myself and I realize I’m at risk of being labeled a monster but with the glut of teams the WPA it seems anyone can do it 

Actually that is a good question.  My son never played youth hockey in PA .  When he first started playing we were in a very small market in the south and later we moved to a bigger market.  In both places at an early age he learned how to get cut.  He played both roller and ice but dropper roller when he turned 14, so he experienced it in both sports.

Sometimes he made teams that I thought he shouldn't have made and made teams that I thought he should have. 

Sometimes he got cut from teams that I thought he should have made and sometimes he got cut from teams that I knew he had no business making. 

So, I guess we figured it all evened itself out in the end.  I only remember tears once, and it was more my wife than him.  Although he is grown now and no longer plays the next time I have a beer with him, I may bring it up to see how he feels, but I would guess both he and I (and even the wife) probably would agree that everyone needs to experience being cut.  It is what you learn from and it makes you stronger in the end.  I couldn't imagine him going through his whole playing career and never getting cut. 

I remember when he was older and got called or emailed by a coach and told to come to the last day or tryouts and he'll get a spot.  Skated for 30-min and bumped some kid who had been with that same group for the past year.  The kids mom pitching a fit with the coach bring in "outsiders" and giving them preference over her kid.  Did it suck for that kid?  Yeah, but I could tell, they had never experienced failure before.  By that time he knew to appreciate what he worked for, and could empathize for the other kid, but in the end in midgets they were there to win.

And for the most part when he got cut, he just went and tried out for a different team, and in all instances I can say he was better off with the 2nd team.  Looking back on the whole thing, there are only 2 instances where I think we made mistakes and both were where he was actually offered a spot and he turned it down.

Both you and I are on here for others with younger players to learn from our mistakes.  My advice to all is have them try out for teams and if they get cut, it's ok.  As an adult he handles set backs so much better and is very appreciative when things do work out for him.

Hope this answers your question.

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